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Dead Bike

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:18 pm
by Chompper26
So the ECU, Ns sensor, GL/GR sensors, ignition coils, battery, kill switch, plugs and wires, all get power all are checked good. Bike still has no spark at any of the plugs. There isnt anything left to check. There isnt any reason it shouldnt be running. It just wont start. All the wires are intact all the fuses are good. Literally the only thing wrong is no spark. Im afraid this bike is just dead. So my question is how should i set it on fire? Douse it in gasoline or molotov it?

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:30 pm
by DaveO430
Give it to me, I'll make it disappear and you won't be in trouble with the fire dept. :D

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:39 pm
by Chompper26
Sorry ive got 5 grand into this thing and im going to get some enjoyment out of it one way or another.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:37 am
by virgilmobile
Are there any error codes showing up?

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:07 am
by Chompper26
Ns sensor. And the Ns sensor tests as good. Before that the GR/GL sensors which also test good. Figured it was the ECU. Swapped with known good ECU. Same thing. The bike is dead its not coming back to life there is no reason it has no spark no reason at all. I have tested checked and replaced every single piece of the entire ignition system. Everything is known good or replaced with known good. It still will not start. So again any ideas on how i should BBQ it?

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:46 am
by Maz
"...there is no reason it has no spark no reason at all"....
No disrespect, but there is DEFINITELY a reason it has no spark!
You have tried many 'known good'items, but have you checked all of the wiring and connections to these items? Have you measured voltages at all available points throughout the entire ignition circuits?
I don't own a 1200 but the procedure is the same for any engine.
Maz

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:13 am
by Chompper26
Yes and yes all the wiring is good i cut open the wrap traced and checked every wire in the ignition system. All the grounds everything. When o say their is no reason i mean it there is no reason.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:21 am
by virgilmobile
Lemme ask a question...
When you were testing go for volts where did you connect the meter/probe ground wire??
Please say it was at the green wire at the ignition module and not the frame or battery.
The ignition system does have a common ground lug.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:41 am
by Chompper26
I tested both the ground lug and green ground wires.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:58 am
by Chompper26
I did an alt conversion when the stator went bad on me. Now instead of eating the battery and not charging it wont start period.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:11 am
by virgilmobile
All that's suppose to generate a spark is volts at the spark units(12 volts between the black/white and green) ...12 volts at the ECU(white and green)..pulses from all 3 coils.
Voltage can be measured for the pulse coils at there plug.Im guessing that with the key on it would be between 0.2 and 1.5 volts.If you unplug the pulse coil,the harness wire would go up to around 5 volts.This can verify the pulse coils are actually getting connected to the ECU.
Keep I'm mind that to get a spark,the pulse coils must actually get the signal from the rotating blade near it.
I did hear of a no spark condition because the ignitor plate was not rotating with the engine..A guide pin was misplaced.
I've used a cheap analog volt meter across the pulse coils measuring a few tenths of a volt...crank the engine and watched the needle wiggle a bit..

Basic wiring
Basic wiring


Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 am
by Chompper26
Hit the start button the ignition coils get 12v (or whatever the battery has run down to at that point between charging. I have seriously done the checks and rechecked and replaced with known good parts. There isnt a test or part that hasnt been checked or done on the ignition system. It just wont work. Thats the only explanation it just doesnt work for no reason just wont work.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:25 am
by virgilmobile
Just read your alternator post.Review the front sensor wiring.Thats the area you were working in.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:29 am
by Chompper26
Yeah that was the first thing i did. Checked to make sure i didnt break something loose under the covers. And traced all the wires coming from that area. Like i said the checks have been done and redone and redone. Their isnt anything anyone else would do that hasnt been done at least 3 times already on the ignition system.

So how much tannerite would i need to use to reduce this thing to 1 inch pieces ya think? 200lbs?

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:42 am
by Maz
Chompper26 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 am
Hit the start button the ignition coils get 12v (or whatever the battery has run down to at that point between charging. I have seriously done the checks and rechecked and replaced with known good parts. There isnt a test or part that hasnt been checked or done on the ignition system. It just wont work. Thats the only explanation it just doesnt work for no reason just wont work.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the coils should have a 12v feed all the time the ignition is on. The spark is generated when the ground is removed from the other side of the coil(switched by the spark units or, in the case of points ignition, when the points open).

Maz

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:50 am
by Chompper26
Yes and to test if the start button is causing a problem you hit that and make sure power is still there and not shorting out in the switch. Point is from the battery to the plugs and all points in between gets power where it is supposed to get power. Additionally every sensor plug wire and fuse also checks out as good and within spec. It really is just not working for no reason. Unless you know of some reason that a bike with everything operating as it is supposed to be just not sparking thats the only explanation i got. Im just cursed to have broken stuff.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:32 am
by virgilmobile
Another question.When you turn on the key,does the fuel light and LED's on the module go through the self test.On for 1.5 seconds?

Self test
Self test


Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:47 am
by Chompper26
Yes and then when i hit the start button it fails to start and throws the Ns sensor code. Which again checks out good and so does the one i replaced it with.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:49 am
by Maz
Chompper26 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 am
Hit the start button the ignition coils get 12v (or whatever the battery has run down to at that point between charging. I have seriously done the checks and rechecked and replaced with known good parts. There isnt a test or part that hasnt been checked or done on the ignition system. It just wont work. Thats the only explanation it just doesnt work for no reason just wont work.
My mistake...... I read that as meaning you only got 12v when you pressed the button.
Maz

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:54 am
by Chompper26
I should have said still gets power.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:16 pm
by virgilmobile
Chompper26 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:47 am
Yes and then when i hit the start button it fails to start and throws the Ns sensor code. Which again checks out good and so does the one i replaced it with.
Now we're getting somewhere.Without a valid pulse from the angle sensor there will be no spark.
I know.. you've been there done that.but...
I can assume nothing.
At the ECM unplugged.does the sensor read somewhere between 250_350 ohms.the yellow and white wires I think.I don't have the plug pinout handy.
And while your reading this resistance..with a analog meter..crank the engine over..The resistance should vary a bit every time it gets a pulse.
A neat trick to see if the pulse coil is working.
Also do measure resistance to ground..there should be none.
This pulse coil operates on a very small voltage..anything out of specs kills it.
Keep after it...just for my sanity.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:21 pm
by Chompper26
And that test was in the haynes manual and done again everything within spec. You seeing my frustration yet?

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:30 pm
by virgilmobile
I do ....however the error code remains.
My ohm meter test is unique.Not in the manual.
Using a analog meter applies a small voltage to the coil.
When the engine cranks,the pulse coil generates a small voltage..this upsets the ohms reading..My verification it does pulse.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:37 pm
by Chompper26
One of the tests was to test all the pins on the ECU connector to make sure it was getting the proper inputs from the different sensors and power and grounds etc. Everything checked to the specs given in the manual. As i said i have done the tests checked the hardware checked the wires from one component to the next until i ran out of things to check. The bike just doesnt work. No reason for it it just wont start. Hey if your in dallas and this bothers you that much pm me ill give you my address and you can come run all the tests yourself and see for yourself that it just wont fire the plugs and there is no reason for it. Be my guest. If you find something and fix it ill even pay you for your time. But i know you wont because there isnt a test or check you or anyone else can come up with that i havent done already.

I do get a pulse on the green wires (capped off green wires for the reg/rec) when i hit the start button but those wires are supposed to be capped off or chopped out when you do the alt conversion and as far as i know the only discrepancy on the bike. Before you ask yes i tried grounding them but got the same result. Pulse grounded to frame still no start.

Re: Dead Bike

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:12 pm
by virgilmobile
The discarded wiring from the alternator conversion doesn't affect the ignition.
Sorry...I'm not near Dallas but I share your annoyance.
I still hope back to the error code.Theres just gotta be something wrong in that simple circuit.Its break time.