86 SEi no starting due to fault codes


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Warbum99
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »



Ok, So i picked a beaut 86 SEi, total barn find. Initially not getting any power what-so-ever, got on here and with some help was able to locate a bad contact going to the ignition. That is now fixed and it turns over just fine. So i sprayed some starter fluid into it and it kind wanted to start up so i assumed that everything was ok. Changed the oil, put in a new air and fuel filter and went to turn it over and now i get nothing. Disconnected the top of the fuel filter and saw that there was no fuel when cranking. Pulled off the fuel pump relay and checked it and didnt find any issues. The "fuel system light" does come on when i try to start it, and I'm getting the W light solid with lights 0,1, 2, and 3 blinking. If i'm reading the code's right, that means that all the injectors are shorted or open circuited i believe. Has anyone had this issue or know a way to test any of these issues. It only has 13K on it and i would love to get it going again. Thanks for the help



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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Need pictures. Barn finds are always tricky when it comes to electrics.

The fuel system light is the equivalent of an auto check engine light. Comes on whenever there is an issue with the CFI system.

You should be able to hear the fuel pump cycle when the key is turned on - operates for 2-4 seconds and turns off - starts immediately when the engine starts.

It is possible that you have disturbed the wiring somehow. I would make sure the injector connectors are seated properly. Remove and put back on. You can also follow the wiring back to the main wiring harness connector because you probably removed the shelter to do the air filter. The Supplement recommends taking one injector connector off at a time to isolate the problem.

Wouldn't hurt to remove, clean and reconnect the connector at the ECU.

There is a 30 amp CFI circuit connected to the battery terminal of the starter solenoid. Check the 30 amp dog bone fuse. The fuse is to the right of the battery as you look at it. If this has failed the engine will not start.

Have an '85 LTD and it is a fine bike. 160,000 Kms on it and still going. These are robust bikes and the electrical system as well.

Check the stator connections. The connectors are the weak point. Make sure these are clean and in good condition. Since the bike has not been used much you can still probably salvage the OEM connector. If it shows any signs of overheating replace the connector with new or hard solder the wires together. The OEM connectors last a long time so a new one if required may be the way to go.

Do the timing belts because the engine is an interference engine and if a belt goes, it will take engine parts with it. Good time to drain and fill with new coolant as well. Flush and use new brake and clutch fluid. The clutch slave may have a lot of crud in it and wouldn't hurt to take off, clean and put back on. Here's a picture of the clutch slave cylinder I did on an '85 LTD:


Parts are available from Honda and inexpensive.

Take the rear drive off and lube all splines.

Good luck. Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Warbum99
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

Well not exactly sure how hard it is to clean the clutch slave, however i'm going to take apart the master cylinder and clean everything and rebuild if necessary. All fuses are good like i said i have power going to relay and relay works fine. Just not sure how to correct the codes on the ECU causing it to shut the fuel system down. I've read some posts that it may be a cam sensor or fuel cutoff sensor but i would like to test these before i buy any parts. If I don't get any good leads the next step is for me to take out the fuel pump and connect it directly to the battery to see if it pumps. After that i have no clue. I will check the injectors however i think i would need fuel to get to them for those to be my issue.

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Rednaxs60
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Rednaxs60 »

The fuel pump either works or no. Follow the fuel pump wires back to the connector under the seat. You will be able to check the power to the fuel pump at this point. It should come on and go off within 2-4 seconds. If this happens the fuel pump may be U/S. The fuel pump being U/S does not affect the injectors such that an error code will be generated. There are aftermarket fuel pumps that can be used. I have used the Spectra E8312 and Spectra SP1186. Prefer the Spectra. You can also go to your local auto wrecker - take the fuel pump with you - and you may get a used one from an early model Honda Civic/Prelude fuel injected car - very economical.

There are three sensors that affect the operation of the engine quite substantially. The throttle position sensor (TPS). This sensor is either on or not. It can be checked for calibration using the procedure in the Supplement. It is found on the forward left side of the air chamber.

The Ns sensor (crankshaft) is found in the timing belt area and provides a signal to the ECU for timing. It measures the crankshaft speed. If this one is U/S you can use a PG sensor harness from an 85 to 87 Aspencade. It has two sensors but fits exactly where the Ns sensor is now. I installed this PG sensor on my '85 LTD and use one of the sensors. With both installed if one goes U/S I only have to change the connector under the shelter to get going again instead of taking the front off to get in behind the timing belt covers.

The Gr/Gl sensor on the rear of the right cylinder head - commonly called PG sensors. These are used for engine and injector timing. I have not had to do anything with these to date, but it will not be as easy to change/modify to get going again. There is a mod on the CX500/650 Turbo forum regarding these.

Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Warbum99
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

Ok so just an update, when i initially turn the key the bike goes thru its normal self check. The fuel system light comes on for about 2 sec then turns off, however I still have the line going to the fuel filter disconnected to see if i get any fuel to there, currently i do not. As soon as i try to start the fuel system lights turns on and the LEDs cycle first 0,1, and 2 then it goes to 3 and then back and forth between those. Looking at the supplement it says to verify the valve is in ON- it is. Also to verify the "fuel pump shut off sensor is in ON. Do you know how this is done? Is this a switch I have to verify is turned ON? It seems weird to me that there isnt any fuel at the fuel filter when i turn the ignition, but I'm kind of new to the 86 SEi.

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Rednaxs60
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Check the out from the fuel shut off valve. When I put the second '85 LTD on the road had to flush the fuel lines. This has happened to others as well. If no fuel flowing, will take a few flushes to get the fuel flowing again.

A side note - the fuel shut off valve only has to be in the off position when working on the fuel system unlike the carb models.

There is a cone filter in the fuel pump inlet to catch crud from the fuel tank, can be clogged as well.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Warbum99
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

So disconnected the inlet to the fuel pump and there is definitely fuel there, i will take off tomorrow and give it a good cleaning but would that cause the fuel pump to not turn on?

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Rednaxs60
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Rednaxs60 »

If there is fuel at the fuel pump inlet, if the pump is working, there will be fuel in the system. Do you hear the fuel pump working immediately when the key is turned on?

You mentioned that you changed the fuel filter - in the right way for flow? Inlet to the fuel filter is on the bottom, out on the top. Should be an arrow or stamping on the fuel filter indicating fuel flow. You need to have a metal cased filter because of the fuel system pressure of some 32 PSI when operating.

You can also check the fuel pump for flow as well. Take the inlet line to the fuel filter off and turn the key on. See if there is fuel flow to the filter. If the fuel pump is working, it will come out quite fast.

Try this. Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Warbum99
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

So pretty sure i installed it right, but i took it off and looked and no arrow on it, its the fram replacement for it. A little bit bigger than the original but oh well. Disconnected the inlet, well i disconnected both ends of the fuel filter and no fuel came out. So im going to take off the pump tomorrow and hook it up to a battery and see if it pumps if not then i guess i'll replace it or try to rebuild, if it does then i guess i have some more electrical troubleshooting to do.

Warbum99
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

Ok so update, i removed the pump and tested with the battery and got a little movement then nothing. However i also tested the Brown and black wire coming from the fuse box and the continuity is good until i get to the connector that then goes to the pump. Is the fuel pump ran off 12V i guess is my question and then does the power going to the pump come from the ECU or is it direct from battery?

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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Rednaxs60 »

The fuel pump is controlled by the fuel pp relay (#5) that gets power through fuse #5. Relay #5 gets power from the CFI relay #4. The power through relay #5 is controlled by the ECU. Bit convoluted but works well. The idle air control (IAC) valve is wired in parallel with the fuel pump. The pump uses 12 VDC.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Warbum99
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

Ok update, i got in a new fuel pump, it has power. Then there was no spark, so after first thinking it was the ignition coils i did some research and found that the rectifier on the rear fender needs to be plugged in, turned it over and it sounds like it wants to start but still nothing. That being said on the 4 or 5th turn it has a weird almost knocking sound so i'm going to take off the front and check the timing i guess, was going to do it anyway as its been sitting, however just curious if anyone thinks that it would sound like that do to a lack of fuel, i checked compression the old fashion way with a finger over the spark plug hole and there is good pressure. let me know what u guys think

Warbum99
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 SEi Aspencade

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Warbum99 »

Ok good news, just gave it full throttle, finally started! after it ran for about a min, idles rights around 750 rpm. Thanks Red. Now all i have to do is put it all back together, change out a bunch of other fluids, redo suspension, get new tires, and get her registered and i'm on the road haha :lol:

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Rednaxs60
Posts: 2345
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 86 SEi no starting due to fault codes

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Jack the idle up to 1000 +/- 100 at operating temp, 750 too low.


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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