Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!


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Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »



Last night I stopped for gas and my 1987 Interstate failed to start for the first time ever. It went err err (turned over very slowly for 2 seconds) and then nothing. I had all my lights, but they are all LEDs so they don't take much juice.

The gas station attendant was kind enough to give me a running shove push start and it started right up and home I went.

When I got home, before I shut it off I measured the voltage at the battery and the output was @ 11 volts at 3000 RPMs.
It was too late to do more because, well you know, work tomorrow.

What do you experts think it could be? What you troubleshoot first, second, third...
I'm lost and could really use your input.

Oh yeah, there are 30,184 miles on it and it has run fantastic for the 3 years I've owned it. Just changed the oil last week with GN4 10W40. Change oil and filter every year.



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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by Ivan161 »

check starter brush/battery/Regulator rectifier

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Re: Voltage Output 11 volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

:oops: Volts. I meant voltage at the battery is 11 volts at 3000 rpms. It was late and I wasn't thinking. Sorry.

I couldn't see anywhere I could edit or remove this post so I hope this will be okay.

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by AZgl1800 »

you already have the correct answer on the SSWGF post by DenverWinger
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

AZgl1800 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:49 am
you already have the correct answer on the SSWGF post by DenverWinger
Yes, I saw that, thanks. I posted it there this morning because I wasn't sure if I would get any replies on this post because I screwed up and put amps instead of volts and have tried to edit or remove it and wasn't sure how bad I messed it up. :oops:

I've never posted the same question on separate sites before, and I didn't mean to be rude or disrespectful in doing that.

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by oldishwinger »

11 volts is too low should be around 14 to 14.5 so its not charging properly. it could be just a bad battery, so probably a good place to start would be a new battery. if not that it will be either stator wiring the stator itself, or the rectifier wiring or rectifier itself.

the 3 yellow wires to the left of the battery are known to cause stator issues. if you know you way around a multimeter, use a manual to do the checks

good luck

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by AZgl1800 »

patbrandon1 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:38 am
AZgl1800 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:49 am
you already have the correct answer on the SSWGF post by DenverWinger
Yes, I saw that, thanks. I posted it there this morning because I wasn't sure if I would get any replies on this post because I screwed up and put amps instead of volts and have tried to edit or remove it and wasn't sure how bad I messed it up. :oops:

I've never posted the same question on separate sites before, and I didn't mean to be rude or disrespectful in doing that.
it was not rude, looking backwards, my post is a bit too trite. sorry about that.

I had just looked at all of the posts on SSWGF and then came here and saw your post on the same subject.... so instead of starting up twin conversations, just referred you back to where help had already been offered up.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by Solina Dave »

I just had a very similar issue with my '78 GL. I only had about 10 volts with the engine running at about 3000 rpm. When I shut it off it wouldn't re-start. With the ignition switch in the "run" position I had lights (not LEDs) but they were dim. With a voltmeter on the battery I had 12.3 volts, but when I pushed the starter button, I heard the solenoid pick up, the battery voltage dropped to zero, and that was that. It didn't even try to start.
I removed the battery and took it to NAPA for a load test, and the battery was toast. Replaced the battery, and I'm good to go.

Hope that helps. Let us know how you make out.............cheers...Dave :D
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

Just an update of my testing today. Here are the suggested tests to perform posted by member roscoepc of goldwingfacts.com.

"1- First, put the bike on the centerstand. Cut the wires on both sides of the stator connector plug. Strip the insulation aprox. 1/2"-1" back on all three yellow wires. Label each wire A, B, and C.
2- With a multimeter, digital or analog, set to read resistance, check each leg to ground for short's. If no short's are found, (o resistance), you're good to go so far.
3- With the meter set to read resistance, check across each leg. A to B, B to C, then C to A. The reading's should be about 3 ohm's. If you read infinite resistance across any of the legs you have an open winding and the stator is bad. If they read good, keep going.
4- A helper is good to have for this next step. With the battery fully charged and the three yellow wire's separated so they cannot make contact, crank the bike. Have your helper rev the bike to 3000rpm after the bike warm's up.

IMPORTANT!!!
You are checking for AC voltage NOT DC voltage!! Make sure the meter is set to read a minimum of 120vac!! With the bike at 3000rpm, check leg A to B. Note the voltage. Then check leg B to C. Note the voltage. Finaly check leg C to A. Note the voltage.
Compare the three readings. They should be between 50-70vac plus or minus about 5vac per leg. If they read good, chances are you've got a bad regulator."


I only did the first three tests because I wanted to know if I had done something wrong, or if my results surely indicate a bad stator.

"I did Step 2 and there was 0 resistance on all three legs. I had measure at the unplugged plug from the regulator. I didn't want to undue my solder job yet. I checked it and it still all looked great. I will attach a photo of where I connected to do the tests. I used 2 different pretty good quality multi-meters.

When I did step 3, bad news. All three, A to B, A to C, and B to C showed 0 resistance. Is it uncommon for all three to read zero? Or am I doing something wrong?"



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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by DenverWinger »

You have the meter on the wrong scale, it is reading 0.000 Million ohms. Switch it straight down to the 200 ohm scale, it should read to fractions of an ohm there. The stator has to be disconnected to get a true reading.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by Charlie1Horse »

Check your three yellow wires at the connector to the left of the battery. In fact this is one of Honda's bad ideas. If they had used a sealed connector there, it would not collect dust and dirt and then moisture. The moisture in that vertical plug causes corrosion and then resistance and then heat that burns the connector. Then you have no charging. If you check the voltage from the stator at this point and it passes then the best thing is to cut the connector out and solder the three yellow wires together, bypassing the plug, for a permanent fix. Be sure to use heat shrink tubing on each solder joint. Even if that connector is still good I would solder past it anyway. I didn't, and for me it caught on fire while riding to work one day. It melted the side cover as well and those are hard to find as well as expensive.
Russell

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

DenverWinger wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:17 pm
You have the meter on the wrong scale, it is reading 0.000 Million ohms. Switch it straight down to the 200 ohm scale, it should read to fractions of an ohm there. The stator has to be disconnected to get a true reading.
Okay, did that DenverWinger. Got readings of 00.7 ohms on all three A-B, A-C, B-C. When you say the stator has to be disconnected I don't really understand. I unplugged the harness from the reg/rec as shown in the pic below. Is that disconnected enough? I believe it just goes from the plug to the stator. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, does the stator need to be disconnected when doing the AC voltage test? If so I will have to undu my solder job. Or is where I'm testing from in the picture below going to work?

When I measured AC voltage this way, I got 70 VAC at A, 45 VAC at B, and 45 VAC, at C.



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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by DenverWinger »

Unplugging at the rec/reg and measuring there is plenty disconnected enough, you can take the voltage readings from the same place with the rec/reg unplugged. The voltage readings you took are not correct measurements. Read the AC voltage the same way you read the ohms, A-B, A-C and B-C at 3000 RPM

0.7 ohms seems a little low....But not unreasonable. Did you do the Leakage test? (Ohms reading from A, B or C to ground, reg/rec disconnected, engine stopped)

If you wanted to load-test the stator it should be able to light up a standard household 60 watt 120v incandescent light bulb on A-B, A-C or B-C. :mrgreen: Won't be full brightness though, doesn't put out 120v, and the voltage will drop with the load... But should light it nonetheless. You'd see the brightness vary with engine RPM. It would show you the stator can put out some current. This test is optional and mainly for grins, the voltage readings will be enough.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

DenverWinger wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:51 am
Unplugging at the rec/reg and measuring there is plenty disconnected enough, you can take the voltage readings from the same place with the rec/reg unplugged. The voltage readings you took are not correct measurements. Read the AC voltage the same way you read the ohms, A-B, A-C and B-C at 3000 RPM

0.7 ohms seems a little low....But not unreasonable. Did you do the Leakage test? (Ohms reading from A, B or C to ground, reg/rec disconnected, engine stopped)

If you wanted to load-test the stator it should be able to light up a standard household 60 watt 120v incandescent light bulb on A-B, A-C or B-C. :mrgreen: Won't be full brightness though, doesn't put out 120v, and the voltage will drop with the load... But should light it nonetheless. You'd see the brightness vary with engine RPM. It would show you the stator can put out some current. This test is optional and mainly for grins, the voltage readings will be enough.
Great stuff. I'll report back as soon as I get a chance. It WILL be sometime today. I did see and reply to your answer on the other site. :D

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

Test results from stator test.

A to B 24.3 AC Volts,
A to C 24.3 AC Volts,
B to C 14.0 AC Volts.

Measured with Reg/Rec unplugged and RPMs @ 3000.

What is your verdict of these test results?



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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by DenverWinger »

Sounds like cooked windings in the stator, you should have over 50 volts, and all three readings should be roughly equal.

I'm afraid you are looking at stator replacement. Also need to check the diodes in the rec/reg, a shorted diode can be the cause of the stator failure (especially the legs with low reading). We can rule out the stator connector since you've soldered the wires.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

DenverWinger wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:35 pm
Sounds like cooked windings in the stator, you should have over 50 volts, and all three readings should be roughly equal.

I'm afraid you are looking at stator replacement. Also need to check the diodes in the rec/reg, a shorted diode can be the cause of the stator failure (especially the legs with low reading). We can rule out the stator connector since you've soldered the wires.
Oh well, that's life sometimes. Can you point me to information on how to check the diodes in the rec/reg?

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by DenverWinger »

I noticed on your gray multimeter on the Ohms scale, select the 2k ohms (that one because it has the "Diode Check" symbol by it. I couldn't see Diode check on the yellow meter, photo wasn't good enough)

You need to take 12 separate readings, these in the rec/reg plug with stator disconnected. There's six main diodes in the rectifier, and we have to test current thru them in both directions.

Use the red red meter lead on the yellow stator wires and measure:
Stator "A" to Green wire
Stator "A" to Red wire
Stator "B" to Green wire
Stator "B" to Red wire
Stator "C" to Green wire
Stator "C" to Red wire.

Then switch your meter leads, using your black meter lead on the yellow stator wires and take the same six readings.

Report back with all 12 readings.....
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by patbrandon1 »

DenverWinger wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:31 am
You need to take 12 separate readings, these in the rec/reg plug with stator disconnected. There's six main diodes in the rectifier, and we have to test current thru them in both directions.

Use the red red meter lead on the yellow stator wires and measure:
Stator "A" to Green wire
Stator "A" to Red wire
Stator "B" to Green wire
Stator "B" to Red wire
Stator "C" to Green wire
Stator "C" to Red wire.

Then switch your meter leads, using your black meter lead on the yellow stator wires and take the same six readings.

Report back with all 12 readings.....
Will do. Hopefully sometime tomorrow (Thursday). Great job with the info and guidance. Thanks a bunch. :D

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by DaRamblerman »

So on a ride from Dushore Pa to Bloomsburg we stopped off at a refreshment stand, had to move the bike, slow crank. Batt down. LEt it sit for a bit fired it up, pulled h-light and t-light fuses to reduce elect load. had some charging but only to 11.5v. Got home did stator test, PO had already replaced the fact connector with a 4 wide trailer wire. First thing I checked when running, it was not hot so I eliminated it from the problem. But I could not get it separated to test stator it indeed was fused together inside the housing. Stator test a ok. went to check Rectifier and found this. Cant post pict I get this...ERROR
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Amps at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by CrystalPistol »

patbrandon1 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:28 pm
Just an update of my testing today. Here are the suggested tests to perform posted by member roscoepc of goldwingfacts.com.

"1- First, put the bike on the centerstand. Cut the wires on both sides of the stator connector plug. Strip the insulation aprox. 1/2"-1" back on all three yellow wires. Label each wire A, B, and C.
2- With a multimeter, digital or analog, set to read resistance, check each leg to ground for short's. If no short's are found, (o resistance), you're good to go so far.
3- With the meter set to read resistance, check across each leg. A to B, B to C, then C to A. The reading's should be about 3 ohm's. If you read infinite resistance across any of the legs you have an open winding and the stator is bad. If they read good, keep going.
4- A helper is good to have for this next step. With the battery fully charged and the three yellow wire's separated so they cannot make contact, crank the bike. Have your helper rev the bike to 3000rpm after the bike warm's up.

IMPORTANT!!!
You are checking for AC voltage NOT DC voltage!! Make sure the meter is set to read a minimum of 120vac!! With the bike at 3000rpm, check leg A to B. Note the voltage. Then check leg B to C. Note the voltage. Finaly check leg C to A. Note the voltage.
Compare the three readings. They should be between 50-70 Vac plus or minus about 5vac per leg. If they read good, chances are you've got a bad regulator."


I only did the first three tests because I wanted to know if I had done something wrong, or if my results surely indicate a bad stator.

"I did Step 2 and there was 0 resistance on all three legs. I had measure at the unplugged plug from the regulator. I didn't want to undue my solder job yet. I checked it and it still all looked great. I will attach a photo of where I connected to do the tests. I used 2 different pretty good quality multi-meters.

When I did step 3, bad news. All three, A to B, A to C, and B to C showed 0 resistance. Is it uncommon for all three to read zero? Or am I doing something wrong?"
Where I Measured for Ohms Collage.JPG
Voltage and resistance are different things.

0 (zero) resistance means circuit is not broken, which is at it should be in this case. A broken wire or bad solder will result in a higher (than zero) reading when looking at resistance.

If voltage (AC Volts) was low on a winding or "leg", then there is likely a failure in the insulation between wraps of that leg, shorting the path of the winding and causing a "seemingly well low resistance winding" (leg) to not "put out" a good AC Volt reading.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by DenverWinger »

He was getting the 0 reading on the 20 Megohm scale, not surprising. When switched to 200 ohm scale it read 0.7 ohms, more like it should be.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by CrystalPistol »

DenverWinger wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:12 pm
He was getting the 0 reading on the 20 Megohm scale, not surprising. When switched to 200 ohm scale it read 0.7 ohms, more like it should be.
Yeah, I saw that in a blow up, but the stator and those yellow wires leading to it aren't really sensitive electronics, 0.7 or 0. are both about where it should be if not an open circuit.

I think his stator suffered same as mine did years ago, resistance OK, but VAC low on one leg told me that I had a bad winding with failed insulation of winds.
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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by oldishwinger »

Hi your situation seemed similar to what happened to my 86 apsy, wheras I replaced a bad stator, and about 12 months later noticed a voltage drop to about 13 volts constant at 3000 rpm

funnily enough, the bike ran fine at that but of course it shouldnt be that, and there it does mean there is fault somewhere, and the worry is is could get worse.

Like you, I ran a rectifier check which came up fine, apart from the earth that takes access power to ground, which I was told couldnt be checked so that unfortunately left the stator again.

a check showed that one leg of the stator wasnt working so I was up for another stator, mainly because I had made the mistake of assuming when the first stator failed, that was it, but there was another fault, not found, and this caused the second stator failure.

Randalks have a article on just this.

To eliminate any issues around the rectifier and stator I installed a poor boy conversion, best thing I ever did.

my opologies for being a a bit long winded, but a stator check would seem to be needed I think, plus a earth wire check at the rectifier if you can find out how to do that.

good luck.

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Re: Voltage Output 11 Volts at 3000 RPMs. Help!

Post by oldishwinger »

oldishwinger wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:42 pm
Hi your situation seemed similar to what happened to my 86 apsy, wheras I replaced a bad stator, and about 12 months later noticed a voltage drop to about 13 volts constant at 3000 rpm

funnily enough, the bike ran fine at that but of course it shouldnt be that, and there it does mean there is fault somewhere, and the worry is is could get worse.

Like you, I ran a rectifier check which came up fine, apart from the earth that takes access power to ground, which I was told couldnt be checked so that unfortunately left the stator again.

a check showed that one leg of the stator wasnt working so I was up for another stator, mainly because I had made the mistake of assuming when the first stator failed, that was it, but there was another fault, not found, and this caused the second stator failure.

Randalks have a article on just this.

To eliminate any issues around the rectifier and stator I installed a poor boy conversion, best thing I ever did.

my opologies for being a a bit long winded, but a stator check would seem to be needed I think, plus a earth wire check at the rectifier if you can find out how to do that.

good luck.
oooops wrong article so sorry for get what I said



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