1985 Limited dies at idle


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Carlos1007
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
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1998 Rebel Bobber

1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »



Hi all,
I just bought an 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition fuel injected which only problem was supposed to be the starter.
Put a new starter and the bike easily starts at 1600 rpms, after 1 or 2 minutes when warmed up it gradually starts to lower the rpms.
At 1000 starts to idle rough and continues to lowers until it dies at 850~900 rpm.
I can keep it running by holding the throttle over 1200 rpms and revs up easily.
Computer LEDs shows no faults.
Replaced spark plugs and fuel filter.
Unplugged the Computer and the fuse/relay panel and plugged back in each twice.

Please advice,


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WillIamBurnett
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Location: Creedmoor NC
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 limited

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by WillIamBurnett »

Hello, have you gotten this rectified? Wanted to see if you had checked the fuel pump pressure.
Carlos1007
Posts: 9
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
1978 XS1100 (under construction)
1998 Rebel Bobber

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

William, thanks for replying.

no, I have not found the problem. Since the bike starts and runs (at high rpms) I assumed the fuel pump/pressure was good.
I ordered a f/injection pressure gauge kit and it is supposed to arrive today, will check tomorrow and post results.

thanks again
Carlos
Carlos1007
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Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

WillIamBurnett wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:45 pm Hello, have you gotten this rectified? Wanted to see if you had checked the fuel pump pressure.


William,
I have 34 psi on the fuel at 1600 rpm (warming up) and 32 psi at 1100 rpm. I adjusted the idle screw to maintain 1100 to prevent the engine from dying at anything under 1000 , but I just discovered, painfully I may say, that the right two exhaust ports were at 300º F while the left side were at 115ºF .
If I pull, one at a time, the left side spark plug cables the engine starts to runs rough until I reconnect the cable. Weird ah?
That leaves me with... not enough fuel or not enough spark in the left side cylinders.

will check the sp plugs

thanks
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WillIamBurnett
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 limited

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by WillIamBurnett »

It's my understanding that when you fiddle with the adjustments you basically adjust left and right. You may have to go back some with the adjustment 🤷‍♂️? Maybe check spark by either a spark tester or just laying it on the frame and watching for it. Just don't turn it over too long. I have heard this can damage coils but have never damaged one myself. Only have to see it light up and that's the answer to spark or not. There are some really good intelligent folks in these forums that have much more knowledge than I do. They will probably chime in soon. Do you have all the manuals for it? I was given a copy of them all digitally by a member and they helped me exponentially! Hope you can get it worked out soon, these things drive great but make horrible yard art😂😂😂
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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
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2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Carlos1007 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 3:35 pm
WillIamBurnett wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:45 pm Hello, have you gotten this rectified? Wanted to see if you had checked the fuel pump pressure.


William,
I have 34 psi on the fuel at 1600 rpm (warming up) and 32 psi at 1100 rpm. I adjusted the idle screw to maintain 1100 to prevent the engine from dying at anything under 1000 , but I just discovered, painfully I may say, that the right two exhaust ports were at 300º F while the left side were at 115ºF .
If I pull, one at a time, the left side spark plug cables the engine starts to runs rough until I reconnect the cable. Weird ah?
That leaves me with... not enough fuel or not enough spark in the left side cylinders.

will check the sp plugs

thanks
Somebody has been turning screws and the wrong ones have been turned. The idle adjustment screw is in the middle of the air chamber at the back, not under the right side CFI cover. The screw under the right side CFI cover is to balance the left and right cylinder banks - need 2 vacuum gauges. Only have to balance the left and right cylinder banks by using numbers 3 and 4 cylinders. You cannot balance the cylinders on the same side because this bike is an FI model. Before going any further you have to balance the cylinder banks. You will have to adjust the idle at the same time as it will change.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
Carlos1007
Posts: 9
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
1978 XS1100 (under construction)
1998 Rebel Bobber

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

WillIamBurnett wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 5:30 pm It's my understanding that when you fiddle with the adjustments you basically adjust left and right. You may have to go back some with the adjustment 🤷‍♂️? Maybe check spark by either a spark tester or just laying it on the frame and watching for it. Just don't turn it over too long. I have heard this can damage coils but have never damaged one myself. Only have to see it light up and that's the answer to spark or not. There are some really good intelligent folks in these forums that have much more knowledge than I do. They will probably chime in soon. Do you have all the manuals for it? I was given a copy of them all digitally by a member and they helped me exponentially! Hope you can get it worked out soon, these things drive great but make horrible yard art😂😂😂
Thanks for the reply William, I already balanced the "carbs (intake) " about two months ago, I do have the manuals, electronic and in paper.
Planning to remove the spark plugs tomorrow and inspect even though I put them new in Mar when I bought it.
I dont want to but maybe will have to pull the injectors and see if there is any difference on the amount of fuel they put out (left vs right)

thanks again
Carlos
Last edited by Carlos1007 on Mon May 24, 2021 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Carlos1007
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:18 pm
Location: Miami
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
1978 XS1100 (under construction)
1998 Rebel Bobber

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 6:23 pm
Somebody has been turning screws and the wrong ones have been turned. The idle adjustment screw is in the middle of the air chamber at the back, not under the right side CFI cover. The screw under the right side CFI cover is to balance the left and right cylinder banks - need 2 vacuum gauges. Only have to balance the left and right cylinder banks by using numbers 3 and 4 cylinders. You cannot balance the cylinders on the same side because this bike is an FI model. Before going any further you have to balance the cylinder banks. You will have to adjust the idle at the same time as it will change.


Rednaxs60 , thanks for your comments, at this point I am open to try any suggestions with the bike.

Agree with you on the idle screw, I didnt mention the location because I assumed you all knew where it is but yes, that's the one I adjusted because the engine was dying under 1000 rpms.
I was working on William's suggestion on checking the fuel pressure, not balancing but I do have the four-gauge-kit I use for my 1976 GL1000 which I rebuilt and maintain.
The issue I was talking about is that after running the engine for 5 minutes both right side exhaust reaches 300+ degrees while both left exhaust only 110, I mean, you could touch it and not burn.

thanks again
Carlos
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Rednaxs60
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2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

If all four cylinders are firing, the balance has to be off. Since the temps are off that much, I'd try adjusting the balance screw - small increments - to get the temps on both sides as equal as possible. As the left cylinder bank starts to increase in temp, the engine idle should increase as all four cylinders are now making the engine operate. Will have to adjust the idle as you go. After the temps are close, check the balance with vacuum gauges. I have mentioned, I think, that I only use #3 and #4 cylinders, easiest to get to without taking any plastic off. Watched my father back in the day adjust a V8 engine timing using the temperature of the exhaust. Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
Carlos1007
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
1978 XS1100 (under construction)
1998 Rebel Bobber

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

Latest on the Ltd,
-3/4 intake re-balanced. It was off by less than 1, pounds (see arrow pic) I guess. Cyl 3 was 4ish and Cyl 4 was 5ish
-found both left-side spark plugs too closed (.6) and both right-side too open (.11) and by looking at the pic running too hot (white side-electrode) also. Gap adjusted - Guess I didn't check when I installed them back in March, NGK Standard Spark Plug DPR8EA9.
-injectors are spraying the same pattern/distance

Lowered the idle to 1000 and ran it for 10+ minutes with no issues but still right side way hotter than left side.

Do these valve require adjustment?

just discovered I cant upload pictures

thanks
Carlos
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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

1200 has hydraulic lifters, no adjustment. Temperature still isn't correct, should be very close. Vacuum is in inches of Hg (mercury). Will think on the temp issue.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
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Rednaxs60
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Something is not adding up with the cylinder bank balance. This adjusts the throttle linkage so that each cylinder bank receives the same amount of fuel. If this does not happen, one side can operate cooler than the other. I would use a heat gun and adjust the cylinder banks until the exhaust temps are the same/close, then do a vacuum test. How are you ding the vacuum test? There are screws in the manifold intake:


This is where you connect. Let us know.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
Carlos1007
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1985 GL1200 LTD
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Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

I just found the way to upload pictures.

I assume by heat gun you mean an infrared thermometer? I do have a heat gun but no clue on how to use it to balance.
If you mean thermometer, are you saying I should try balance by temperature instead of gauges?
What vacuum test? If is balancing, I unscrew the Philips bolt at the bottom of the air intake tube, screw in the copper adapter tube from the vacuum gauge set, hose and control valve and gauge. And run it at idle. Adjust in the engine right side, left of cyl 4, believe it’s a small Philips screw spring loaded (while idle is flat head at the center of air box). I could post pictures from home.
Thanks
Carlos
Attachments

This is the gauge am using, 4 set from Amazon, arrow points to 5 at idle.
This is the gauge am using, 4 set from Amazon, arrow points to 5 at idle.


left-side bank
left-side bank


All 4 injectors spray the same pattern
All 4 injectors spray the same pattern


right-side bank
right-side bank

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Rednaxs60
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2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

So far so good. Yes, infrared thermometer for temperature.

Here is a pic of the balance on my Limited Edition at idle using cylinders 3 and 4:


Have approximately 9 inches of vacuum. Have you done a cylinder compression check? The higher the compression the hotter the cylinder, not out of the realm of possibilities. Have cylinder compression of 160ish for all four, just rebuilt the engine.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
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WillIamBurnett
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Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by WillIamBurnett »

Ernest, why do you have to live so far away from north Carolina lol. You have such a vast knowledge of this bike.
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Rednaxs60
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Like the west coast. I have made my '85 a long term retirement project. Still have lots to find out about it.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
Carlos1007
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:18 pm
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
1978 XS1100 (under construction)
1998 Rebel Bobber

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

Hope everyone had a great weekend

all cylinders read between 150 - 165 ish.
For the temp balancing.... any idea how many inches difference between 3/4 ? I mean , are we talking 1 or 2 or 5/10 or more ? should the cold side have more inches than the hot side?

thanks
carlos
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Rednaxs60
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT LE
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition (sold)
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Rednaxs60 »

I would say the hot side should have more vacuum than the cold - hot side is doing all the work.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest
Carlos1007
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:18 pm
Location: Miami
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1985 GL1200 LTD
1978 XS1100 (under construction)
1998 Rebel Bobber

Re: 1985 Limited dies at idle

Post by Carlos1007 »

Hi ALL,

sorry its taken me this long but I 've been very busy at work and at home with other projects (and by that I mean wife's projects) and by the way tomorrow embarking on a 5 day scenic trip from Mia to Mobile AL and back Miami in my 76 GL1000.

hopefully it wont break on me, fingers crossed

I should resume work on the Limited on mid-July

thanks
Carlos


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