Pre-stator indications

[westy57]

Is there anyway indications to know if your stator is going bad? I have the 86 Aspencade SEI GL1200 and last few trips it begins to overcharge early on. I control the overcharge by turning on all electrics (lights ,radio etc...) then it stays at 14.5 and after few miles then goes back to normal. I've had the electrosport R/R for the last 3 yrs on it.It was the upgrade without the black sensing wire. If it's just a R/R going bad I'd like to keep the bike but if stator is going out I'd like to get a new bike before I find myself stranded. Anyone have any suggestions. Last trip was 8 hrs of riding and for 6 mi it tried to overcharge then no problem.Just took out for short ride and did it again right after 2 min of riding then quit again.

[WingAdmin]

Is there anyway indications to know if your stator is going bad? I have the 86 Aspencade SEI GL1200 and last few trips it begins to overcharge early on. I control the overcharge by turning on all electrics (lights ,radio etc...) then it stays at 14.5 and after few miles then goes back to normal. I've had the electrosport R/R for the last 3 yrs on it.It was the upgrade without the black sensing wire. If it's just a R/R going bad I'd like to keep the bike but if stator is going out I'd like to get a new bike before I find myself stranded. Anyone have any suggestions. Last trip was 8 hrs of riding and for 6 mi it tried to overcharge then no problem.Just took out for short ride and did it again right after 2 min of riding then quit again.

A stator on the way out will normally start to DROP voltage, not increase it.

It sounds to me like your voltage regulator is on the way out. The fact that it's intermittent points toward that as well.

Just to be sure, make sure that all of your connections are solid and without corrosion. With the engine running, measure the voltage on the red wires right at the regulator connector, and compare that to the voltage at your battery's positive terminal. The difference should be very low - less than a volt. If you are seeing a difference there of more than a volt or two, then that is likely going to be the cause of your increased voltage - the regulator is seeing a lower voltage from the battery than there actually is, and it's attempting to increase its output to compensate.

[westy57]

Thank you I'll ck it. Is this true not having a black sensing wire connected? Electrosport sold me one without the sensing wire. My voltage since installing this R/R has been always a steady 13.2

[Rambozo]

13.2 is a little on the low side. The ideal spec is 13.8 to 14.2 for flooded lead acid batteries. As Scott said measure at several points and check for dirty connectors. If it all checks out, replace your R/R. You might go with a series instead of a shunt regulator and your stator lifespan will be increased dramatically.

[westy57]

Can you explain or link me a series vs shunt? I don't understand neither. I tried 2 different china cheap ebays when the R/R went out to replace the Shindengen SH574A they both blew within days and began overcharging continually. The forum recommended the electrosport and they recommended the one with out the sensing wire after the 1st one they sent me overcharged. Paid $150 for it and it never gets above 13.2 v hasn't been a problem for the past 4 yrs so left well enough alone. I ck with the R/R OEM replacement off a forum and they wanted $119 for 40 amp replacement but recommended the 50 amp moffett option for $159 + SH

[Rednaxs60]

Can you explain or link me a series vs shunt? I don't understand neither. I tried 2 different china cheap ebays when the R/R went out to replace the Shindengen SH574A they both blew within days and began overcharging continually. The forum recommended the electrosport and they recommended the one with out the sensing wire after the 1st one they sent me overcharged. Paid $150 for it and it never gets above 13.2 v hasn't been a problem for the past 4 yrs so left well enough alone. I ck with the R/R OEM replacement off a forum and they wanted $119 for 40 amp replacement but recommended the 50 amp moffett option for $159 + SH

No such thing as a MOSFET RR, only a shunt or series RR. A MOSFET is an internal electronic component that is more efficient than the older technology.

The shunt RR has a set point of 14.2 VDC in the comparator circuit. It puts excess current to ground by opening a path for the current to go to ground. Sort of like an offramp from a highway.

The series RR is like an on/off valve - starts/stops electrical flow of the current highway, maintains the set point of approximately 14.2 VDC.

Pic of a shunt RR:

Pic of a series RR:

You will notice in the shunt RR that voltage control is done to the side of the main current flow. The series RR has the control element in the current flow path and is an on/off valve.

[westy57]

The latter sounds better. Do you have a link to purchase one?

[westy57]

I'm praising the Lord right now! Took fake tank off and notice how hot the wires were at the solder so cut and re-sodered all and took a spin. Never since replacing this R/R did I get over 13.2 v with low beam and no radio on now it holds a steady 13.8v -14v so now I'm gonna let cool and try again later. Y'all pray for my Honda-Davidson that it stays the course

[westy57]

Fan always kicked in at 3 bars so I wanted to run 2nd time after cooling. Steady at 13.9v -14v Now I can run my extra lights ,use high beam and turn on my radio! Heck I even plugged the clock and computer back in! There's got to be a Wing owner out there somewhere that knows what I'm feeling right now! I even washed it and my wife offered to buy me a new windshield! God is Good!

[Focke-Wulf190]

I purchased a Series SH847 R/R from roadstercycle.com A friend bought a 84 Standard for $500, 65k miles, with charging problems in June of 2017. I told him if the Stator was cooked he had two choices…PoorBoy Or remove the engine to replace the StatorHe said he didn’t want to graft on an afterthought automobile alternator to the bike, so he said to verify that the Stator was actually cooked. I told him we have to start the engine to see what three phase AC voltage he was getting from his Stator. @ 3000rpm His output was 0 Vac. He asked me what it should put out, I said it should be putting out something! LOL (I do electrical and instrumentation work Industrially ) Long story short we ended up pulling the motor verifying the Stator was actually cooked physically, burnt beyond a crisp! We did a lot of other work while we had his engine out, Timing Belts, Head gaskets, valve stem seals, lightly and I mean lightly lap the valves, A new water pump, and any new seals and gaskets that were attached to the engine. Painted the engine with Ceramic Duplicolor Silver paint & baked it in an oven for 90 minutes, it turned out nice.
The new Stator puts out 70vac @3000rpm, the new Series SH847 Rectifier/Regulator puts out 14.4vdc.
After owning 3 new Harleys in the mid 80s, I am familiar with Stator/Shunt type R/R problems

[Focke-Wulf190]

I periodically check my Stators, three phase ac voltage output. @3k rpm, a fresh Stator puts out around 70vac. (Between 1-2, 2-3, & 1-3 phases) A Stator that has an unbalanced Voltage output like 50Vac between two phases, and the third phase like 15Vac, it is indicating that the windings are most likely internally shorted together in a Phase, not shorted to ground. Keep in mind that this is a dynamic test …… not a static test like an Ohms test. The long story short, you have a Stator that is not long for this world so don’t plan any long trips with a Stators condition like that.

[westy57]

Thank you . I did purchase a new OEM R/R and it holds steady about 13.7 with fan running. I figure I can get home on a 2 hour trip and actually that's about all I'm capable of riding anymore. So it's Nashville or Tupelo and no further. If the stator goes I'm thru with it and will plant flowers around it or get what I can for it. I was offered $4000 for it 2 yrs ago and kinda wish I took it. It looks good and runs like a new one so I'll just ride it to the grave. The fan runs after 3rd temp bar comes on which is pretty much continuously if I find someone with a temp gauge I'll see if bars are correct. Still get a hiccup as a milisecond off on but no misfire but last 1.5 ride after sitting for 20 min in heat shut off something had to cool down for 10 min before it would get spark. One wing rider told me it could be ECU or ECM? getting hot. Everything works electronically and cranks but wont start try for about 5 mins then starts. when it gets hot outside and ride about an hour I can make it hiccup by turning on blinker twice and then wont do it again.Just finish cleaning all the connectors and put it back together yesterday so we'll see but everything looked good just something getting hot then shorting for a second,70 or 80 degree weather it runs like a brand new one 90 degree after an hour two or 3 hiccups like an instant kill but not miss a lick then at stops a heat build up after 20 mins. I can shut off and start immediately but if it sit 20 mins no instant start.Shake ,kick try again ....nothing .let gas cap loose ... nothing... turn all switches on off turn steering and eventually it starts after 10 trys

[westy57]

Like a Harley I may only get to ride it in cool weather

[Focke-Wulf190]

From the way you’re describing your issue, it sounds like your pulse generators that are run off of the front crankshaft, are acting up intermittently, I found that to be the case with my 85 interstate. It could also be your ICU also. How many miles are on your bike?

[westy57]

69,000 one other suggested a pulse generator but I didn't know what that was or where. It has to do with something getting hot .But it's all temporary. I cant make it do it by shaking wires or connectors

[Focke-Wulf190]

That’s because the coil (pulse generators) opens up as it heats up and causing a no start or stall condition. It’s located behind your cam covers on the front of your Engine. It’s a $90 part through Honda. Simple to install, with a manual as your guide.
Basically how your ignition system works is that your pulsar pick ups send a signal to your ICU which conditions that signal because it’s a AC sine wave, into a digital on off trigger that opens up the current flow to the ignition coil’s, by opening the path to ground, thru the ICU, thus collapsing the ignition coils primary circuit, inducing voltage into the secondary windings of the coils, then firing the spark plugs.

[westy57]

TY ! That sounds like a descriptive similar of my situation. Anyway to test? It is so temporary I'm sure it will read ok.I was thinking maybe will shut off of heat rising into false tank was my problem but if I can get to heat up and stall again I'll hose the cam cover and see it it starts then .My Alabama redneck test.

[westy57]

If to costly I may have to resolve to a Honda -Davison mentality and only ride in 80 degree and below temperatures

[Focke-Wulf190]

There is no practical way for most people to test/monitor the pulse generators, it’s just prudent to change them. I’m 95% confident that’s your trouble. Cooling down the cam cover will not do anything for it, as the pulse generators are mounted to the engine block or inner cam covers near the crankshaft.
The only practical way to monitor it would be to data log it with an Digital Storage Oscilloscope (DSO) , that’s beyond most people’s capability. Just change them out.
Generally the issue is the pulse generators coils open up, when they cool down they make contact basically the wire is microscopically broken or hairline crack.

[Rednaxs60]

There is no practical way for most people to test/monitor the pulse generators, it’s just prudent to change them. I’m 95% confident that’s your trouble. Cooling down the cam cover will not do anything for it, as the pulse generators are mounted to the engine block or inner cam covers near the crankshaft.
The only practical way to monitor it would be to data log it with an Digital Storage Oscilloscope (DSO) , that’s beyond most people’s capability. Just change them out.
Generally the issue is the pulse generators coils open up, when they cool down they make contact basically the wire is microscopically broken or hairline crack.

The "PG" sensors that you are alluding to are the Gr/Gl sensors on the rear of the right cylinder head on the '85 Limited Edition and '86 SE-i fuel injected models:

The Ns (crank) sensor is located behind the timing belt covers:

The FI models are different than the carb models. There are no aftermarket Gr/Gl sensors available, just used if you can find a set. The fellows on the CX500/650 forum have an alternative solution and that is to adapt an LX579 sensor to fit where the OEM sensors are. The OEM sensors are quite robust so it may not be the problem.

If you need to replace the Ns sensor behind the timing belt covers, recommend installing a PG harness from an '85/'86 Aspencade P/N 30300-ML8-680.

Reading your thread you do not mention if you have any error code(s) showing on the ECU. If there are no error codes on the ECU, the CFI system sensors are good.

[westy57]

This is all beyond my expertise ! I'm a Pastor! 95% sure is pretty encouraging but what I need is some to say change this 1st and then try to find a you tube video on it. The 2 on the side look pretty accessible I'd just have to find the replacement. I dont understand why after an hour of hot riding it will start immediately after being shut off but wait 20 min then it takes like 5-6 trys but does start, a good bump in the road sometimes will cause the hiccup periodically but again only after ride at least an hour in 90 degree weather. And then for the blinker to do it changing lanes but only once or twice then not again

[westy57]

Also error codes is this something on the bike already or something I buy to hook up or run to honda shop?