84 1200 rightbank 1/3 dead but all is correct

[crowesnest3]

Will try to be brief and concise, but I am a wordy kinda guy/ details very impo ...... 84 Interstate was running well fall of 16 then went into a deep rebuild, new timing belts and tensioners, rebuilt calipers/ rotors, rear hub, front forks, SS lines, removed all skins for paint job .... just keep going deeper, as spring approached and project and a long way to go on wing picked up another rider ( Yamaha Venture Royale ) wing sat .... move forward and the WTF problem , returned to wing this winter, putting all the pieces back, time to fire engine to confirm all is well and first time out only runs on cylinders 2/4, left bank, yes fresh 91 non ethanol with some seafoam, figure carbs gotta be just too gummed up despite injection of carb cleaners, rebuild carb rack,really found nothing one could call a problem, removed Secondary air while I was there, still no fire on 1/3, cold, there is strong spark to all cylinders, cold compression is @ 150 each, 1/3 plugs show wet, what else is left? Maybe timing, maybe 4 years ago I installed timing belts wrong ( was not my first time swapping belts, have owned 5 wings since 99) reopened the belts all seemed ok, did move left bank 1 notch over have turned by hand multiple times and all checks out to T1 guidelines, 1/3 STILL DEAD ..... briefly, rebuilt carbs, fuel filter, gas lines, new plugs with strong spark visible, new timing belts that are T1 correct and she only runs on 2/4!!!!! Please someone point out what a stupid thing I did , what did I miss? PLEASE SAVE ME, I do not take defeat well

[joecoolsuncle]

wife pranked you and swapped plug wires? serious vacuum leak? plugged exhaust? trade it in on another yamaha?

[crowesnest3]

humor helps but not in mood for humor ..... thanks anyway

[crowesnest3]

all plug wires correct, coil wires correct, new vaccum line, exhaust modified and open ..... no wife to mess with my head

[Filterman]

I had an '84 GL1200, my first wing. I too let it sit for several years while life happened and kids growing. I too had engine issues and when my limited mechanic skill set was exhausted, I took it to a guy that still knew about how to work on them. As it turns out, I'd poured Seafoam in the tank per another's recommendation. I hadn't heard of the stuff, so what the heck. When the real mechanic dove in, he found that the diaphragms in my 4 carbs were a soft gooey mess and tied it to the Seafoam. Many members on this forum like Seafoam, but I threw the rest of that can away. I also compromised my fuel tank, and back in 2007 was still able to get an OEM tank that Honda was extremely proud of. No saving it from all the internal rusting. Maybe you've got some blockage there? In the end, I had that mechanic do an axle-to-axle mini rebuild. Many of the same things you've done, along with tires, brakes, flush and refill every reservoir on it, fuel pump, starter, braided fuel lines, all new vacuum lines, etc. When he was done, it ran like a champ for many years until I replaced it in 2017 with my 2005. Lessons learned? Never let them sit. If life's happening, get it out a couple times a year, ride it to bring it up to temperature (you'll also find this incentivizes you to find more me-time on the thing); stablize a full fuel tank with Sta-bil, and my personal is I'll never use Seafoam again. Not here to argue one side or the other on that product, I just know it appeared to 'melt' my diaphragms and those carb kits may no longer be available. Where are you located? If in OH, I can hook you up with the old time mechanic that was a master at these 1200's. He used to be the service manager of a long out of business GW dealership in the Dayton area. I'm sure there are other great mechanics out there. Good luck, I liked my 1200, I love my 1800. No regrets whatsoever. It's just like the 1200 but 21 years newer technology, power, comfort, etc. It's even the same color! Well sort of. 84 was Wineberry, 05 is Black Cherry Red or something.

[crowesnest3]

Thank you Filterman for your input, I am reaching out for all ideas cuz I am stumped , do all my own wrenching cuz I love it and had been burned more than once by qualified mechanics ... please no reflection on your referral, who I would be interested in talking to ..... your comment regarding the condition of the diaphragms is valid and did closely inspect same when redid the rack, best I can tell they are whole and functional, have used seafoam " judiciously ..... also carb cleaner and brake cleaner, have for years used ATF as a fuel additive for all my vehicles .... been thinking thru this , why cylinders 1/3 both? would mean both carbs on right are bum even after rebuild!?!, also , just thinking, despite strong spark both cylinders ( removed plugs and grounded out to block) new gapped Iridium plugs throwing very strong sparks, can't be coil cuz it would have to be both coils which would mean 2/4 would not fire either ..... this is giving me a brain freeze! Ride safe and be proud you are riding a wing

[Filterman]

I'll see if I can contact him to make sure it's okay to give you his phone number. You can talk to him direct then assuming he's still working on motorcycles. Be in touch later today hopefully.

[Shadowjack]

I may have missed it, but you do have the plug wires on the proper cylinders, yes? Front pair to one coil and the rear pair to the other? I know you said they all spark, but they'd be completely off on one bank.

[Filterman]

Shadowjack - I'm not 100% sure of this. Check out the link for some additional info:
https://www.randakksblog.com/error-in-g ... ce-manual/

[Shadowjack]

Not sure what you mean to tell me. All that's needed to know is in the lead sentence: the front pair of cylinders fire from the same coil, as do the rears. Randakk is pointing out that the 1200 manual is wrong or at least unclear, but which way are yours connected? If they're as shown in Figure 1, they're wrong.
As a separate troubleshooting operation (unneeded in this case), by swapping the front plug wires with the rears, and swapping the blue and yellow wires between the coils (illustrated in a normal configuration by Figure3), you can isolate a coil/wire problem vs. an ignition circuit problem; say, a bad pulser pickup. But this is not your issue.

[Filterman]

My 1200 is long gone so I can't check it. But as I read through Randakk's pages, I saw where maybe this might apply to your situation. As you scroll down, he makes it more clear which may be of some help.

[crowesnest3]

as to question regarding proper plug/ coil wiring .... absolutely .... actually marked all prior to disassemble, and have re/re checked ( also all connections have been treated with dialectic as have all existing electronic fittings) however, a question that is really reaching, the coils themselves , are they cylinder specific, put another way, if one swapped the left coil to the right, right to left yet still wired as it should would this screw things up? Why ask? in the course of rebuild did consider swapping 1500 coils for the 1200, recall having coil pack out to determine what had to be done to mount the 1500's,, which I did purchase, don't recall if I broke down the 1200 pack and/or did I possibly switch left to right ,,,, decided not to proceed, decided to stay simple stupid to get her back on road. Thinking makes no difference but I'll look under any rock to solve problem ....

[DenverWinger]

Easy way to confirm the wiring is swap the #1 and #3 plug wires. That will either fix it, or no change.

If no change, issue has to be no fuel getting to the cylinders.

[Shadowjack]

Crowesnest3, I see you say the wires were marked and connections checked and re-checked, but did you go back just now and look at your plug wire layout per my comments, and Filterman's link to the Randakk page? Randakk shows how they should be connected properly.
Remember, all old Honda fours use a wasted-spark ignition, which has one coil fire both plugs of an opposite pair at the same time, but one cylinder is on the compression stroke and one is on the exhaust stroke. If you get the front and back plug wires reversed on one side, they will both be firing on their exhaust stroke and obviously both be dead.
I suggested you could swap the left and right coils IF YOU SWAP ALL CONNECTED WIRES between the coils (meaning the yellow and blue trigger wires and both sets of plug wires). The black/white striped wires which go to each coil are the common 12v supply for both coils and don't need to be changed.
On the several 1200s I've worked on, the plug wires have a number tag up near the coil end. When they're plugged in properly, they read 1-3-4-2, just like the firing order of just about any four-cylinder engine.

[ct1500]

Plugs are wet with fuel, spark present with good compression. I would be looking at those two cylinders being flooded with fuel due to carb problems.

[Shadowjack]

So, you didn't take anyone's advice about checking the plug wire connections one more time, then? You're going with carb problems?

[Filterman]

I think the rider with the problem is Crowesnest3. I'm reading it that ct1500 is weighing in that he thinks it's a carb issue. I figured at this point, Crowesnest3 needs a little time to work through the suggestions, and if he wants anymore feedback, he'll let us know. These things take time to work through and check out.

[Shadowjack]

Yes, my mistake, I didn't check to poster's name. Sorry.

[crowesnest3]

To be crystal clear, when I originally posted this I commented that that the plug wiring had been checked and double checked and correctly as to the Randakks guide,which a friend shared with me prior to my original post ( did I mention that all wiring had been labeled at time of tear down ) I have since rechecked ... Timing had been checked and has since been re/re/re checked , it is as it should be per every manual available .... since checked #1 for firing at TDC compression stroke, yes it is as determined by observing grounded plug and feeling for the " puff" of compression using the hose from my compression guage.... also pulled carb rack again and went thru right carb bank, all jets and orifices, ...... never said "wet" plugs or did not wish to infer same, appear to be moist vs wet as if flooded, also have tried to just fire right bank ( disconnected left bank plugs ) using ether, no pop at all ..... what I have not done yet, but will, is check the coils for proper output with an omh meter ( despite showing a strong visual spark ) and check the float adjustments ....... bike was running well strong and well when dismantled, I completely and sincerely appreciate every ones input and suggestions, listening to every one, especially if it relates to something I have not already addressed, thing is been there done that .... have also been reviewing problem with 2 master mechanics both with over 50 years experience, we have gotten no farther than I am now all also suggesting similar items to check which have been, all at a loss ...... I am greatly looking forward to the moment I can post that all is well and you wouldn't believe what a dumb thing I did that caused this insanity

[crowesnest3]

and I WILL recheck every wire and plug connection .... again, wouldn't be the first time was a bit braindead ...

[Filterman]

crowesnest3 sounds like you have more help than you ever bargained for!! I am remembering my 1200 back in 2007 when I went through a similar challenge and after those carbs were pulled apart is when we found how 'gooey bad' the diaphragms were. I'm thinking in all of this you've mentioned a teardown/rebuild so you've eliminated that. I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit - it's not something "dumb" & brain dead. My hope is that whatever it is, you can still get the replacement part(s). Good luck to you my friend, Happy Easter!

[crowesnest3]

UPDATE: to this date have not figured this out, despite, since, replacing the coils,wires, plug caps .... checked all resistance measures with ohm meter, all correct ( pulse generators) even temp swapped out ecu from another running 84/1200 still the same, 1&3 dead and cold ...... so now headed to confirm manifold intakes are good, new O rings and recheck for the ? time the correct set on the right timing belt ... lets not even mention are the wires in the right connections cuz for the 20th time over they have been put in the correct spot ..... at least have my brothers 84 Aspy running like a swiss watch, no more Wing starter issues, rebuilt starter ( amazing how much carbon dust inside case from worn brushes) same found in Wing 1 that also suffered the " starter" thing. Gonna also note that I did the " hole in the stator casing" trick so I could soak the starter clutch sprague with PBS Blaster and ATF, folks here to tell you that it has worked very well, starter catches every time , hot or cold, although think that temperature issue really relates to the starter intself being full of carbon ( armature coated with carbon) heat making the carbon arc more thus failure.. The hole in the casing gets right to the problem way faster than running Seafoam in the oil for hundreds of miles or ( can't believe this one but the picture was posted) hang your Wing upside down from the shop rafters to lube the starter clutch .......................... one of these days soon ? will figure this dead 1&3 / I hope .....

[Maz]

In case I've missed it, what are the compression readings for all cylinders?
Maz

[crowesnest3]

because you asked @ 150 cold ........ and this afternoon I found that the plug wiring I had checked so many times had been marked as wrong ...... correct wiring is left coil 4/3 and right coil 2/1 all is now as it should have been a long time ago, had 1& 3 reversed .... stupidity/ dyslexia or bad karma I am back on track .... bright side I guess is carbs got rebuilt twice, coils wires, plug boots all new, timing belts spot on, PGs been tested, can wander all over the inner workings of the 1200 and know exactly where I am , what goes where and what does it take to get there .... nothing wrong with an education ... thanks to all for your variety of input

[joecoolsuncle]

wow, that must have been a brutal education. dont feel bad, everyone has had a moment of overlooking the problem. ride often, post pics!
peace