how many RPMs do i need to start?

[Mr.Lisbon]

first: when/if i get my '87A running, i will let this thread know what the issue was and give you guys a conclusion. scouts honor. (‘-‘*ゞ

idk if i have a weak spark, (but if so its on all 4 cylinders) or what the issue is, exactly. my battery is around 14.1v, and the coils are new.
a) so,when i hit the starter button, my starter cranks the engine at nearly 500rpm. is that fast enough to initiate a start?
II) how likely is it for both PGs to take a sh~t at the same time?
3)recently converted to an alternator. ran great, then i dicked with the wiring. theres a 3wire terminal and the battery connection, so 4 wires alltogether (pls, dont everyone say "FOUR WIRES". its a tired joke) could that be the issue, and if so, can anyone red pill me an MS Paint representation of the correct wiring?

thanks in advance for any help, and i will cry if anyone asks me to check the killswitch ^^

[DenverWinger]

Did you check the kill switch?

500 start RPM is plenty, and unlikely both PGs went at same time. Got fuel? (sniff exhaust pipe after cranking).

[Mr.Lisbon]

i believe so. i'm in louisville, and were having some weather atm - high winds - so i cant be certain. i can say for certain all the bowls are full (except #3 - which i dont get how #1 can be full and NOT # 3, but...)

anywho, i'll give the megaphones your sniff test when the weather calms down.

[Mr.Lisbon]

affirmative. definite petrol odor from both pipes.

[Rambozo]

If you have a spark your PGs are good. They are an all or nothing type of part. #1 carb could be full and #3 empty if you have stuck or clogged float valves.
What is the history of this bike?
Have you checked the timing belts?
What did you do to the wiring?

[joecoolsuncle]

neutral saftey switch or wire?

[Mr.Lisbon]

@mr.bozo
i hope youre sitting down, sir, i dont want the shock to cause you injury.. this particular gl1200 sat for a while.
about a year ago i picked it up and got it humming. OD =78k as of now. took off OEM exhaust and SAS and went up to a 115/143 slow-idle & main jetting (respectiveley). belts are new and were replaced in Oct. (figured it was dumb to do an alternator conversion and NOT swap the belts out, amirightorwhat?)

@mr.uncle
apologies, but dk what the safetey switch is youre referring to. is the context the alternator or the bike itself? i go to see if google can provide a quick answer and i will get back to your question

[Mr.Lisbon]

@mr.uncle
okay, after 90 seconds of research i believe i understand your question well enough to attempt an answer: there isnt a kickstand switch et al, and not only does NEUTRAL light up on my instrument bank, but i can feel and hear the transmission slip nicely into the gearing (not to mention i can push the bike back and forth). when the bike is in 1st (or any other gear, i suppose) i can zip-tie the clutch open and try and start the bike, but the results are the same, sadly.
@mr.bozo
also to answer your other question: i cant remember exactly? it had something to do with the wire that i had switched. i accidentally broke the bulb i was using and took the terminal plug and all the wires completely off to replace it. i think i had the replacement bulb in backwards (it was a wedge socket) and i couldn't understand why the new light wasn't working -not knowing i just needed to turn the bulb around

edit to say: for some reason, when i flip the killswitch between its 3 positions, i no longer see any dimming of my instrument panel. no idea if that's relevant or not, just something i noticed since this no-start phenomenon began

[lcdrjoe]

Just some things I'd go through if I was trying to get it going:
1. If you have spark and fuel, then maybe you got the coil wires mixed up somehow, so the spark that is supposed to go to #1 and #2 is going to #3 and #4. There should be 2 wires connected to each coil. One should be black with white tracer on both of them, and the other is different colors for each of the coils. Maybe you got them backward.
2. I'd check for spark and then, if I had spark, I'd pull out the air filter and spray some starting fluid in there and try to see if she attempts to fire up.
3. If neither of those worked, I'd pull off the timing covers and see if the timing was off.

[Mr.Lisbon]

@mr.joe
shrug. better than any plan i got. i'll let you guys know what happens!
edit to say: yeah black/white & yellow/blue - then reversed. (if i remember correctly)

[Mr.Lisbon]

holy sh~t..
are the primary-colored wires the negative/out/- ? if so, (and current direction matters) then i might have this mystery solved.
let's see who's behind this mask..

brb

[Rednaxs60]

Check the OEM service manual, Honda mentions in the manual polarity is not an issue.

[lcdrjoe]

I was meaning you may have gotten the colored wires (blue with yellow, and yellow with blue) reversed. That would make the spark go to the wrong set of plugs, so your timing would be way off. I'm not sure it's possible, but you could try reversing the plug wires at the plugs (switch out 1 & 3 and switch out 2 & 4). With those things that lap over each other in the middle of the plug wire ends it's probably not possible to get them on the plugs that way though. After looking at the schematic, it does appear that the coil is just a coil of wire and direction of current flow should not matter. On the other hand, looking at new coils on ebay, there is a + and - symbol on there.

[Mr.Lisbon]

Sorry things got kind of crazy at work and I'm only just today able to get back under the bike.

The wire pairs are different lengths, so I don't think that someone could absent mindedly put them on the wrong coil. It's kind of a simple and clever way to prevent that exact scenario, actually. But I tried anyway and now my neutral light doesn't come on - so I'm probably going to have to take the transmission and water pump cover off today.
I've been looking on some goldwing forums and message boards and haven't been able to find a diagram for my particular alternator but I think there's a YouTube video where the fellow is using the same kind and I saved it I'll watch it later and see if it goes into detail about the wiring set up

[Mr.Lisbon]

oh, and starter fluid only starts a small fire, so...

[Rednaxs60]

Need some pictures of the alternator installation and the wiring.

The coils are really simple. The right coil is for cylinders 1/2, the left coil for cylinders 3/4. Polarity is not an issue according to Honda. Aftermarket coils would be connected the same.

Instead of swapping wires, just pull the plugs (all four) and check for spark. Use new plugs when you do this. The coil wires are BL/W as power - should have approximately 10 VDC on this wire. The y/Bu goes to the numbers 1/2 coil, the Bu/y goes to the coil for numbers 3/4.

The alternator should have no impact on starting. The battery is the primary source of power when starting. Make sure the old rectifier/regulator connections are properly terminated. The wiring harness connector has red and red/white wire that is live at all times, connected directly to the battery through the starter solenoid. The black wire in the connector will be live when the key is on.

You asked about the alternator setup. Is it a "3" wire or single wire? The 3 wire:

The single wire alternator is connected to the electrical system and senses the electrical system voltage through the power wire. This is picture:

You need to do some electrical troubleshooting, specifically to know where there is or is not power. The Electrical Troubleshooting Manual for these bikes is a great resource and will answer a lot of your questions. This is a partial schematic for my '85 FI model - has a few extra wires, but the basic wiring will be the same, good starting point, Start at the battery, and go forward. If there is power where it should be, time to look elsewhere:

Good Luck.

[Mr.Lisbon]

a thousand blessings on your house, sir. seriously, seriously, thank you. thank all of you for your help. sincerely.

[Mr.Lisbon]

okay, guys. im not annie leibowitz or anything but heres some pics i took of the alternator and the solenoid. the solenoid is a little hard to figure out because i kept melting through them, so i kinfof rigged it to where it shouldnt be getting as hot - since the current isnt doubling back on itself. i might MSPaint some labels in these images when i go inside

[Rednaxs60]

Good pictures. Bit of a wiring nightmare. Picture of where the regulator/rectifier was located and the connectors would be beneficial. I think I mentioned that the red and red/white wire in the regulator/rectifier (RR) connector is live at all times, as is the black sense wire. Need to protect these wires from grounding.

Thinking the light attached to the alternator is to indicate if it is working or not. The red and red/white wires are from the wiring harness? Wiring at the starter solenoid needs to be cleaned up, too many unknowns. Proper OEM style connectors would be good as well.

The starter solenoid should have 4 wires attached and only four - the wires from the wiring harness, remove all other wires. These are the red and red/stripe wire from the alternator, the yellow/red and green/red wire for the starter solenoid internal really to send power to the starter.

Clean this area up and find out what everything else does.

I would change out the two red wires for a #8 cable to the battery positive terminal, or to the starter solenoid, route it nicely with the wiring harness. I would then only have the original red wire connected to the starter solenoid, this wire goes to the ignition switch. It is bonded to the red/white wire in the wiring harness, but you will not need it, connect it to the starter solenoid if you wish.

The sense, ignition and light terminals on the alternator can be fed from the same 12 VDC source. One wire to the alternator split to connect to the "IG" and "S" terminals, and one wire for the light. One power wire split three ways. This minimizes the number of wires used. You could also use a relay to power this wire to the alternator. The black sense wire in the RR connector can be used as a trigger wire for the relay. This way there is no power to the alternator when the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position.

I would route the ground and power wires at the alternator to an indicating light somewhere on the front fairing, install the light like you would a USB connector.

Good start so far.

Cheers

[Mr.Lisbon]

instructions...

im gonna do this stuff today.

and i melted the SCR. thats what was cusing the NEUTRAL light failure.