4"x6" speakers in the dash?


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chevelle69
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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by chevelle69 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:57 pm



just a quick question why did u go with the db461 vs the db461p it looks like the P may fit better in to the hole. just asking as i will be doing this really soon

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_930 ... b461P.html







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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by FM-USA » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:52 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Happytrails wrote:Saw a post by someone who installed non-waterresistant/waterproof speakers and he enjoyed his results. Can't imagine getting cause in a rainstorm and looking for a bridge to pull under though. Agree that just swapping speakers is going to give lackluster results. Going to need an amp. Will be cool to watch this thread. I'd like to upgrade my audio too but its difficult because what level do you take it too. You can really throw some cash as a system making it nice.
Some have used non-waterproof speakers, and sprayed the cones with lacquer to seal them, with good results.
As did I with Crylon gloss black, 3 coats. Only problem was I didn't mask off the outer flex ribs.
Can we say CRACK boys and grills?
Replaced and masked off, works GREAT.
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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:58 pm

chevelle69 wrote:just a quick question why did u go with the db461 vs the db461p it looks like the P may fit better in to the hole. just asking as i will be doing this really soon
Didn't use a Polk, didn't use a plate speaker.
Used an honest oval 4x6 speaker, the Pioneer's referenced and photographed.
The plates make it too tall (thick) to be installed nicely under the dash cover. The tweeter would have been up under the plastic as well. As it is now, the tweeter is just offset enough to notice, if you were to notice something different. If I have to do it over again, I have a feeling we're going with a component system...just a matter of finding a quality woofer/midrange driver in under 5" but bigger than 4".

My ferrite coils will be here tomorrow to take care of the HID buzz, back to work on Monday for a full work week (been off since the 19th!), and a possible east coast snow storm coming the Monday after. Looks like riding season is down to the last few days! :shock: I gotta hurry!

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:53 am

Millerized,
Since it looks like you've been around the block a few times with audio, I have a question. My goal is to install an amp that will not modify the OEM setup at all. I'm wanting to install an amp, paralelling off the rear speakers, that will be used to drive a third set of speakers only. So I'll still have front to rear adjustment on my fader, the new amp would pick up its signal from the left and right rear speakers, thus the new amp's volume would rise and fall with the rear fader adjustment. I assume that the amp's power level could be preset at the amp to a predetermined level; with the rear speaker volume, and thus the new amp's ultimate volume, controlled along with the rear speakers. What I don't know, is if tapping into the rear speakers for audio output to the amp, will distort or cause some other problem with the OEM rear speakers, and/or the amp's audio quality. Does this sound doable to you ? Any advice or suggestions ? What type of amp, and/or equalizer would be needed ?
Thanks, in advance.
JC
Exactly which Pioneer speakers did you use on your install ?

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by Big Blue UK » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:58 am

raygald wrote:Does someone have replaced OEM front speaker for GL1800 (2001-2005) for a better sound? I know that latest GL1800 has 2-way front speakers playing better than former Wings. Thanks for your ideas.
I replaced all four with Polk 401's because marine speakers are a must, they sound naff as I expected, but not for long, Polk are excellent if driven properly. More powerful speakers will sound worse because the 2001-2004 Honda amp IC (even the better quality IC) is nowhere near good enough to drive quad true 50W RMS - 140W peak speakers at 4ohms. I am not expecting thumping bass from mid range speakers. I am however contemplating turning the top box into a ported subwoofer, the air being fired through the port underneath the top box will help keep the amp cool also. See my posts on this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31290
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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:55 am

Bluewaterhooker0 wrote:Millerized,
Since it looks like you've been around the block a few times with audio, I have a question. My goal is to install an amp that will not modify the OEM setup at all. I'm wanting to install an amp, paralelling off the rear speakers, that will be used to drive a third set of speakers only. So I'll still have front to rear adjustment on my fader, the new amp would pick up its signal from the left and right rear speakers, thus the new amp's volume would rise and fall with the rear fader adjustment. I assume that the amp's power level could be preset at the amp to a predetermined level; with the rear speaker volume, and thus the new amp's ultimate volume, controlled along with the rear speakers. What I don't know, is if tapping into the rear speakers for audio output to the amp, will distort or cause some other problem with the OEM rear speakers, and/or the amp's audio quality. Does this sound doable to you ? Any advice or suggestions ? What type of amp, and/or equalizer would be needed ?
Thanks, in advance.
JC
Exactly which Pioneer speakers did you use on your install ?
Using any 2 channel amp that would have a 'line level input' (speaker voltage input capability) would/should/could work. Remember these stock systems are 2 channel radios....left and right. Front/rear are just the front 2 channels split and re-used for the back...fader or not, they're still just the 2 front. Regardless of where you pick the signal up at, you're still going to get the 2 speakers outputs as an input for your amp.
(Oh, and the amp would probably need to have an adjustable gain...to assist you in getting the level 'right' for your needs. Not being able to adjust it separately would be annoying. I like my Pyle Hydra...it has both an onboard gain as well as a 'remote' knob on a 3.5MM jack you could mount nearly anywhere (I just used the on-board adjustment). It's either/or, so you can set it and forget it without the knob needed. I don't have the schematics, but it looks like they override each other when plugged in/disconnected. But, it would help for on the fly gain, hence, volume changes)

That being said, if it's a GL1500 you're running, it's got a 4 pin molex under the seat that's just perfect to pop apart, make a splitter and feed your amp with. Only thing to watch for, and what I don't have any measurements on, would be how much difference you'll end up with in the ohms between the normal 'in system' speakers at 3ohm and any changes the amp might add to it. What you might want to come up with is a 'line level converter' http://www.amazon.com/BOSS-Audio-B65N-L ... ingdocs-20 that converts the speaker wires you just split into an RCA output for the amp. That would be better anyway and give you a much wider choice of amplifiers since you don't need one that has line level inputs.

My front speakers currently being used are http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NF5 ... ingdocs-20 Pioneer TSG4645R. 3 reasons....A: cheap (mine were open box) B: a thought of 'if these'll fit, damn near everything will fit' and C: If I have to destroy these in the process....oh, well. Eventually, when things settle down, I'll go find a used/cheap set of the marine Polk 4x6's (not the plate, the oval 4x6 because of the center tweeter mounting looks better through the grill...and isn't hidden and unusable behind the plastic). I might even end up with a set of component speakers eventually....who knows.
The rear speakers were Blaupunkt ODx102's (just had to look at the auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/161731944662, might have had it wrong in the original post...sorry)
Amplifier currently used is http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PLMRMP3B-Cha ... ingdocs-20

On this next part, though, it's just my opinion and thoughts....
I'll mention one thing with adding another set of rear speakers: at speed.....how well do they give you sound now compared to the fronts?
It's not just a measure of speaker volume, size or how well they're put together, it'll also have to be about aiming the speakers. Forcing sound waves to push forward hard enough to make much of a difference at speed (and possibly through a helmet depending on what state) is going to require both a larger speaker AND a solid amp to push the speaker hard enough to force that sound 'to' you. (Damn you Christian Doppler!!!) The stock 3" stuff...not so much. Now a subwoofer, or a larger diameter speaker in the 6"+ inch range...driven correctly....that would rock!!!! (literally!)

Understand that I'm not 'trained' in any of this. My only drive is to have 'better' than what I started with, and I've never been afraid to at least 'make' the mistake. My definition of 'better' might not fit into anyone else's definition of better...heck, it might be 'worse' for you. BUT, it currently works for me. Of course, this was written a few seconds ago...and my current 'requirements' might have changed by now.

(I'm going riding....final week before the snow hits by the sounds of things...and I have chickens that need food)

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by Big Blue UK » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:46 am

millerized wrote:Understand that I'm not 'trained' in any of this. My only drive is to have 'better' than what I started with, and I've never been afraid to at least 'make' the mistake.
I was going to type that LOL
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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:38 am

Big Blue UK wrote:
millerized wrote:Understand that I'm not 'trained' in any of this. My only drive is to have 'better' than what I started with, and I've never been afraid to at least 'make' the mistake.
I was going to type that LOL
LOL....yeah, I've never been 'that' guy :roll: :lol: Sometimes got lost, sometimes got injured, sometimes lost more money than I wanted....but....you can't complain when you're the one making the rules. If I wanted to just set on the porch and watch others, I'd have followed a much different life.

Went for ride last night. The whine from the HIDs did NOT go away with the application of the ferrite coils. Still there in force. I drilled a hole into each corner of the headlight mounting area and moved the one piece of the ballast down under the headlight, bringing the wires up from the bottom. That helped some, but the whine is still there with the volume off. Turn it up a bit, and while it's still there way in the background, it doesn't increase with volume. A low to medium volume...you can't hear it at all. High volume....you can't even hear the bike OR the road. You can move the ballasts away from the speaker, and it goes away completely. It comes down to proximity of the little box after the ballast. Tells me it's strictly RFI from the HID's straight into the speakers. I think shielded wire (which I'd planned on running at the beginning but couldn't find it at the house at exactly that time) will be the whine killer. Or not. Won't know until I try.

Also have a slight engine whine that a ground loop filter won't get out that is NOT HID related. It goes away with disconnection of the line level inputs (which I'm feeding from the original front speaker wires) but NOT from turning off the radio...so I'm pretty sure it's because the input wires are run right across the top of the coils. Again, shielded wires would have taken care of that. Or not. List for winter is getting longer. Just hope the winter isn't going to be as long as my list is.

Oh, well...winter is coming sooner rather than later. Supposed to be 24F tomorrow morning, and 14F Tuesday morning. I used to be good down to 0F or so...but...well...old age and I really, really, REALLY despise dropping a motorcycle on ice at speed. Just not as much fun doing that as it used to be. (and a damn sight more expensive as well!)

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by w9r1x4 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:59 pm

millerized wrote:
Happytrails wrote:Nice install. Did you use a common ground location someplace? And your using iSimple to bluetooth back to the bike to play your favorite music? :D
Battery post. I'm of the opinion that audio has to go back to the source, no matter how long the cable needed to be. No loops if there are no loops.

iSimple FM modulator for the Sirius audio out. The 3.5mm jack is in the left front pocket. I can plug in anything with a 3.5mm jack and roll with it.

I have sound. UPS will probably be late, and I wanted to see if there is any sound coming out of what I have installed so far. 2 inputs into the amp, and I have all 4 speakers rolling. Enough sound at rest to know this isn't a stock system. Relatively solid bass, ear splitting highs, definitely more sound than previous and head and shoulders above the J&M speakers that were in there.

I'm guessing by looking at this thing, it does NOT have a true 4 channel output. Front 2 channels only, with them split and feeding/fading to the back. I'm going to have to go look at the wiring diagrams for the stereo, but it's not looking good for using a 4 channel amp when 2 channel is all it needs. Of course, using bike wiring (Speaker Level Input - SLI) as an audio input to an amp isn't the best either, but changing that will require a SLI to RCA converter or a new head unit. Right now I'm using the speaker level inputs, and it's not liking being double fed. Going to recheck my wiring, but not really too happy with the results so far.

Crap...yeah, it's a 2 channel out. Front/Rear 'fader' just splits it to 2 left front and 2 right front. 2 channels.

For me to get a true 4 channel out, I'm going to need a different head unit. :| More than I wanted to get into, but possibilities are possibilities until they're either tossed out or made into realities. We'll see where reality ends up.

That said, it's still head and shoulders above where it was. No engine noise. Can't wait to see where the automatic level control takes it on a ride. Sweet!!! so far!
you can route your 2 channel stereo to an equalizer with all the tone/fader controls using something like a Scosche SLC4 Line Output Converter between your stock stereo and either an equalizer (to split into 4 channels) or to an AMP. I used the Boss Boss EQ1208 Car Equalizer - 2 Channel - Graphic - Fader -4 Band and the BOSS Audio CXX1204 Chaos 1200 watt amp.

Ed

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by w9r1x4 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:04 pm

w9r1x4 wrote:
millerized wrote:
Happytrails wrote:Nice install. Did you use a common ground location someplace? And your using iSimple to bluetooth back to the bike to play your favorite music? :D
Battery post. I'm of the opinion that audio has to go back to the source, no matter how long the cable needed to be. No loops if there are no loops.

iSimple FM modulator for the Sirius audio out. The 3.5mm jack is in the left front pocket. I can plug in anything with a 3.5mm jack and roll with it.

I have sound. UPS will probably be late, and I wanted to see if there is any sound coming out of what I have installed so far. 2 inputs into the amp, and I have all 4 speakers rolling. Enough sound at rest to know this isn't a stock system. Relatively solid bass, ear splitting highs, definitely more sound than previous and head and shoulders above the J&M speakers that were in there.

I'm guessing by looking at this thing, it does NOT have a true 4 channel output. Front 2 channels only, with them split and feeding/fading to the back. I'm going to have to go look at the wiring diagrams for the stereo, but it's not looking good for using a 4 channel amp when 2 channel is all it needs. Of course, using bike wiring (Speaker Level Input - SLI) as an audio input to an amp isn't the best either, but changing that will require a SLI to RCA converter or a new head unit. Right now I'm using the speaker level inputs, and it's not liking being double fed. Going to recheck my wiring, but not really too happy with the results so far.

Crap...yeah, it's a 2 channel out. Front/Rear 'fader' just splits it to 2 left front and 2 right front. 2 channels.

For me to get a true 4 channel out, I'm going to need a different head unit. :| More than I wanted to get into, but possibilities are possibilities until they're either tossed out or made into realities. We'll see where reality ends up.

That said, it's still head and shoulders above where it was. No engine noise. Can't wait to see where the automatic level control takes it on a ride. Sweet!!! so far!
you can route your 2 channel stereo to an equalizer with all the tone/fader controls using something like a Scosche SLC4 Line Output Converter between your stock stereo and either an equalizer (to split into 4 channels) or to an AMP. I used the Boss Boss EQ1208 Car Equalizer - 2 Channel - Graphic - Fader -4 Band and the BOSS Audio CXX1204 Chaos 1200 watt amp.

Ed
Both the Scosche and the Boss Equalizer are probably less than $40 together.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:25 pm

w9r1x4 wrote: Both the Scosche and the Boss Equalizer are probably less than $40 together.
I was looking at either a preamp with an EQ (parametric or other) because of certain frequencies needing dampened a bit.
There are enough highs to break crystal...and lows are overpowering to the point of killing midrange at times. Removing, accenting and/or damping things a bit would go a long way in making this sound pretty darn nice.

Amp/EQ combo's of old days are limited...and the 'real' old school used ones are $$$ if you can even find them. Still looking though.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by w9r1x4 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:44 pm

millerized wrote:
w9r1x4 wrote: Both the Scosche and the Boss Equalizer are probably less than $40 together.
I was looking at either a preamp with an EQ (parametric or other) because of certain frequencies needing dampened a bit.
There are enough highs to break crystal...and lows are overpowering to the point of killing midrange at times. Removing, accenting and/or damping things a bit would go a long way in making this sound pretty darn nice.

Amp/EQ combo's of old days are limited...and the 'real' old school used ones are $$$ if you can even find them. Still looking though.
I have polk speakers in the rear and the J&M in the front. Needs more bass. Since I wanted to keep all the standard stuff in place the Schosche unit allowed me to bypass the old rheostat fader which didn't work very well, converting the original right/left stereo outs to RCA connections into the equalizer which has the high/low/mid filters and the balance controls, plus it has additional inputs for cd or XM tuner via RCA inputs, but those only work for speaker output. From the equalizer went RCA to a 1200 Watt AMP and wired all 4 speakers into that. I'm going to go with the mp3 input conversion from Sierra since I have XM and IheartRadio on my phone, so that can be used for both headset and speakers and keep the CB and intercom integration at the same time.

Ed

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by w9r1x4 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:45 pm

w9r1x4 wrote:
millerized wrote:
w9r1x4 wrote: Both the Scosche and the Boss Equalizer are probably less than $40 together.
I was looking at either a preamp with an EQ (parametric or other) because of certain frequencies needing dampened a bit.
There are enough highs to break crystal...and lows are overpowering to the point of killing midrange at times. Removing, accenting and/or damping things a bit would go a long way in making this sound pretty darn nice.

Amp/EQ combo's of old days are limited...and the 'real' old school used ones are $$$ if you can even find them. Still looking though.
I have polk speakers in the rear and the J&M in the front. Needs more bass. Since I wanted to keep all the standard stuff in place the Schosche unit allowed me to bypass the old rheostat fader which didn't work very well, converting the original right/left stereo outs to RCA connections into the equalizer which has the high/low/mid filters and the balance controls, plus it has additional inputs for cd or XM tuner via RCA inputs, but those only work for speaker output. From the equalizer went RCA to a 1200 Watt AMP and wired all 4 speakers into that. I'm going to go with the mp3 input conversion from Sierra since I have XM and IheartRadio on my phone, so that can be used for both headset and speakers and keep the CB and intercom integration at the same time.

Ed
Oh yeah, the Amp or the equalizer both have SUB outputs.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:17 pm

w9r1x4 wrote: Oh yeah, the Amp or the equalizer both have SUB outputs.
Meaning they also have the ability to 'filter' out the deep lows without the need for an intermediate signal processor to an extent. Part of what I'm finding right now is that while the stereo and amp will push 20Hz-20kHz, the speakers really can't handle anything under about 130Hz or so.

Man...If I could just find that old Pyramid 4ch EQ/Amp I had in my 82 Capri....that would be the perfect item. I just can't justify the $200 the one guy wants for his though.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by NVSB4 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:37 pm

WingAdmin wrote:I would suggest making the amp connections into just one or two quick-disconnect connectors on the OUTSIDE of the bag, to make it easy to remove the bag for servicing the rear wheel. I originally had used individual male/female spade connectors for the stuff in my bags, but that became such a pain to disconnect, then match up and reconnect that I scrapped all of them and switched to a 6-place Hitachi style connector (same as used in the OEM connectors throughout the bike). One connector to quickly disconnect and the bag comes free.
I've been looking to replace a few accessory connections with quick-disconnects.
Where is a good place to find an assortment (2-6 pin) and what's the best gauge to use?
I hate to buy individual M/F sets (mainly because it takes too much planning), but will if I must.
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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:40 pm

I use connectors just like the OEM ones, and the best (cheapest, highest quality) place to get them is http://vintageconnections.com/



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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:15 pm

Cyclemax also has kits of 2, 3 and 4 pin setups. Others are out there.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by FM-USA » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:55 pm

I've been using old PC 4-pin Molex connectors.
Then I dug deep in my discarded/surplus electrical box and found one of these.
Found a 9 pin connector I saved from my 72 Harvester Travelall.
....Supposedly Kubota uses this connector for there radio setups.

YA, but I'm a selective pack-rat.

WORKS GREAT


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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:10 pm

Well, the radio replacement piece just arrived from Belarus. We'll get some photo's of it as best we can. (it looks rough on the bottom, but light, sturdy and well finished on the outside). It should be a simple task to accomplish...now that winter has finally arrived. We'll replace and relocate the speaker wires with shielded wire to cut down on the HID and coil noise and run shielded RCA cables to the amp from up front. There's a cheapie MP3/Aux/memory card in-dash car stereo coming from overseas as well. Not something I'm worrying about getting wet. We'll have actual front/rear/left/right abilities once we're done. As before, we'll try to keep as much as possible 'uncut' and reusable...just in case this little experiment doesn't work out.

The weather folks are calling for 2' of snow over the next 2 days...so I'm guessing my riding is over until spring. Knew it had to happen though. Garage work to commence in 3, 2, 1....

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by Mag » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:29 am

Keep chatting, I am following the conversation because I am a music nut when I ride and want to do some sort of improvement to the bike.....now if I can get you guys to speak a language I understand, lol.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by Sempai » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:37 pm

Mag wrote:Keep chatting, I am following the conversation because I am a music nut when I ride and want to do some sort of improvement to the bike.....now if I can get you guys to speak a language I understand, lol.


...and that's really all I have to say about that.
Keep the rubber side down.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by FM-USA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:54 pm

:lol:
I was also trying to find a common language...
BUT THAT'S HILARIOUS!
:lol:
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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by millerized » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:19 pm

I'm looking at nearly 40" of snow on the ground since yesterday afternoon. I don't think I'll be doing anything other than shoveling for the next week.

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Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by FM-USA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:06 pm

millerized wrote:I'm looking at nearly 40" of snow on the ground since yesterday afternoon. I don't think I'll be doing anything other than shoveling for the next week.
40"?
Shoveling?
West Virginnie?
As coal miners, should be a piece of cake.
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I'm hounded for posting helpful solutions? ARGO!!! (2012 film)
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Mag
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:58 am
Location: Silverlake, WA
Motorcycle: 1982 Yamaha Venture (Crashed/Sold)
1982 1100 Silver Goldwing (sold)
1989 1500 Beige Goldwing (sold)
1988 1500 Beige Goldwing (current ride)

Re: 4"x6" speakers in the dash?

Post by Mag » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:15 am

Sempai wrote:
Mag wrote:Keep chatting, I am following the conversation because I am a music nut when I ride and want to do some sort of improvement to the bike.....now if I can get you guys to speak a language I understand, lol.
sheet-music.jpg
...and that's really all I have to say about that.
That was unfair....I have that tinny sound that comes from the front speakers that are small pioneers....I was able to get speakers in to the back but busted the fader wiring, was able to get a new-to-me middle plastic wtih fader knob and will hook that in to see if all works......then start the speaker upgrades and Sirius connect.....

So go ahead and turn your volume up, I will be envious until I am there (ugh)



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