starter , reverse strange problem


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hotrodpearl
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starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:24 pm



I have a 1988 gl1500 which developed a strange problem . Went to start it today and got just a click from the solenoid just to the rear of the battery....then nothing . Cycled the Key and got the same one click from the solenoid...then nothing . So next I cycled the key while holding the starter button in and it started immediately . Went to use reverse and it backed a couple feet and the engine quit . I have now repeated this cycle and its the same . Only starts if you cycle the key while holding the start button in , only reverses abit then the engine shuts down . I can start it this way and ride for an hour no problem . Battery is fully charged , terminals are clean and tight , alternator is charging 14 volts , side stand is up ,reverse lever is in correct position and functioning normal.... Anybody got any ideas ? thanks



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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:35 am

If you put a voltmeter across the battery terminals, what do you see when this happens? When you hit the starter and get just a click, what is the battery doing? Similarly, when you try to reverse and it shuts the engine down, what do you see on the battery?

If you have the bike on the center stand and reverse (so there is no load, it's just spinning the wheel in the air) does it still shut the bike down?

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Battery sits at 12.6 and when key is turned on , voltage drops to 11.2 and when starter is pushed the voltage blinks as it clicks , then goes up to 11.7 whether you push the starter or not , just drops abit as the headlight goes on and off as the started button is pushed . after the first click when pushing the starter , each time additional you push the starter you can just hear a quiet click of a relay and when you cycle the key , you get the louder click from the solenoid . tried boosting it with another MC battery to verify I had enough power and results were unchanged . Other thing I noticed is Cruise on light on dash goes out after solenoid clicks and stays off til key is cycled . But again....it starts and runs when you hold the starter button and then cycle the key..........

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:19 pm

On the centerstand and in reverse with bike running the voltage drops from 14 to 12.6 and after keeping reverse going for 40 seconds , it did not kill the engine and the voltage had then (after 40 seconds ) dropped to12.0 . seems normal to me ??????

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:55 pm

This is sounding an awful lot like a weak battery.

If you have another known good battery (that is big enough to run a GL1500) that you can put in place of your existing battery, I would give it a try.

It sounds like it is breaking down quickly with a large draw of current. When the bike does start (with starter held down and key switch turned on), does it start instantly (i.e. one revolution of the engine) or does it crank a few times first?

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:13 pm

I know it sounds like a weak battery but its not . used the battery off another bike that is new with same result so boosted new battery with truck battery....same result . Bike starts instantly when starter button is held in and key cycled , doesn't hesitate at all .

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by OldZX11Rider » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:16 pm

Interesting. When a battery is being rapidly drawn down, like when using reverse, how low will the voltage have to drop before killing the engine?
Just curious. ;)
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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:38 pm

Let's find out if both starter relays are clicking when you hit the starter, or if it's just one. Both relays are on the right side. Starter relay A closes and supplies power to starter relay B. So first turn the keyswitch on, then hit the starter and see if relay B is clicking. If you're not sure, you can pull the rubber terminal covers off and measure voltage from there to ground. I would check both terminals, you should see pretty close to 12 volts on both of them when the start button is pressed.

If it's not clicking and/or you're not seeing power there when the starter button is pressed, check starter relay A. There is also a 5 amp inline fuse in between the two.

Starter Relay A
Starter Relay A


Starter Relay B
Starter Relay B


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hotrodpearl
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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:55 pm

5 amp fuse is good , both relays clicking....this is an 88 so relays are located A to the right of battery and B to left of battery.

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:01 pm

hotrodpearl wrote:5 amp fuse is good , both relays clicking....this is an 88 so relays are located A to the right of battery and B to left of battery.
Are you seeing voltage on both terminals of the B relay when you hit the starter?

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:19 pm

No....I've got 12.6 on the input side of relay A and only get a little bump, 6v for a millisecond on relay a when starter is pushed . No power on either side of relay b at any time......that's when I try starting it normal . I have a wrecked 89 GL1500 so have lots of swap parts available.....just don't know what to swap ;)

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:59 am

hotrodpearl wrote:No....I've got 12.6 on the input side of relay A and only get a little bump, 6v for a millisecond on relay a when starter is pushed . No power on either side of relay b at any time......that's when I try starting it normal . I have a wrecked 89 GL1500 so have lots of swap parts available.....just don't know what to swap ;)
OK, we're not at the parts-swapping stage yet, we're still on the diagnostic stage. So we know relay A isn't actuating. Let's isolate it from the equation. Check the coil wire coming into that relay - it will be yellow with a red stripe. It should have 12 volts on it when the ignition is set to ON and you press the starter switch.

Then check the other coil wire - brown with a red stripe. It should be grounded (make sure the bike is in neutral when you check this).

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:54 am

So I replaced both A and B relays and the reverse relay beside reverse fuse off the donor bike , No change . So I checked for power on positive relay A . Red wire has 12 volts and brown/red wire has nothing at any point in the starting process and yellow/red has only a flash on the test light when the key is on and you hear the first loud click , then nothing after that til key is cycled again . Only strange thing as I replaced parts and checked for function , I had no change except when I installed the reverse relay , the first time I tried it , the bike started normal , but then same old cycle ....?? The problem must be where the signal is sent to relay A . something is not telling the relay to close and stay closed til starter button is released , or is that flash the signal and theres a problem like a short or something so it quits sending the signal .

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:21 pm

OK, that's definitely narrowing down the culprit, and at this point I'm going to make an educated guess that the problem is your bank angle sensor.

Two other things to try:

- Swap relay 6 (Ign/Cruise) with another relay
- Check that fuse 11 is good

But the fact that this is only happening after the bike is turned on, and that the bank angle sensor resets when you cycle the power, and that the bank angle sensor is what actuates relay 6, I'm going to point to it as the culprit.

Go to the bank angle sensor, and find the wire going to it that is red with white stripe. Jumper this wire to ground. If it solves the problem, then it confirms that the problem is a bad bank angle sensor.

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:34 pm

WELL...I really like your educated guess WingAdmin , you really know your stuff.....grounded out the red white wire and everything went back to normal so replaced the BAS from donor bike and all is good . So possibly if a bank angle sensor is bad , one test might be to cycle the key while holding the start button....???? I also cleaned and tested all the diodes when I was back in there anyhow . Thank You very much Sir , I really appreciate this forum . Happy Trails

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:25 pm

Glad you got it running again. That's why I like electrical puzzles, it's (usually) just a process of elimination until you get the answer. :)

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:35 am

See.....This is why they pay him the BIG BUCKS !
WingAdmin, Damn you're good :-)

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:31 am

Somebody needs to give the man a raise !

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Re: starter , reverse strange problem

Post by hotrodpearl » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:36 am



Forth of July Lineup



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