engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pump


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CaNorseman
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engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pump

Post by CaNorseman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:07 pm



On a ride and made a slow hard left turn and engine died. Thought of the bank angle sensor and replaced it.Still wont run. I supply 12 colt to connector #186 The black/blue wire and the pump works and the bike runs. I temped in a switched and fused 12 volts and all works. WRONG. if i leave my temp power on the bike runs but I can turn off ignition switch (still runs) i can turn kill switch off( still runs), I can tilt the bank angle switch ( still runs) shut off the temp power bike dies. Ok now I'm back feeding power somewhere, but have no clue. Is there a relay that may be bad or what? Can't figure this out with the Haynes
manual and wire diagrams. Please help.
Sorry I have a 91 GL1500 aspy



DaveO430
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by DaveO430 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:09 pm

The problem is most likely in the ECM. How it could backfeed and not get power to the pump from the other way I don't know.

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:49 pm

DaveO430 wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:09 pm
The problem is most likely in the ECM. How it could backfeed and not get power to the pump from the other way I don't know.
That,s 2 that think the ecu is bad. Thanks for responding. Kinda a rare problem from the looks of it. Before I spend 100 bucks on an ecu I'm going to test all relays. I'm curious about relay#6.

DaveO430
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by DaveO430 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:01 am

Assuming 91 is the same as 93, the earliest manual I have, if there was a problem with #6 relay it would not even crank. I have a PDF of how to repair the ECU but can't get it to attach here.

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landisr
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by landisr » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm

I had an almost identical problem recently with my 94A. I started it up (after it had sat for a few weeks) and it ran until it apparently ran out of gas at the carb. I won't go into the painful details of my 'trouble shooting', but it turned out to be the BATTERY. Yes, the voltage to the pump was low suggesting a bad ECM, and jumping 12 volts to the pump it (the pump) would run. I hooked jumper cables from the car to the bike and BINGO. The bike started and ran fine. The old battery had just enough juice to start the bike, but then apparently had barely enough left for the ignition at least for the time it took to empty the float bowls and lines, but not enough for the fuel pump. New battery, and the bike is fine. I just returned from a 3 day, 875 mile ride up along Route 66 in AZ and CA and everything went great.

Moral of the story: Be absolutely sure the battery is HEALTHY. Have it load tested, fully charged or replaced before you continue part swapping. Not hard to do and may save you from more heartache. I learned this the hard way.

Ron in AZ

PS. Ok, I will share a couple details.. My 'T-shooting' included TWO round trips to the local motorcycle bone yard (160 miles total) plus the joy of swapping out the old fuel pump and ECU and swapping them back after no improvement. Bless the yard guys for accepting returns ON ELECTRICAL PARTS! πŸ‘Œ
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.

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virgilmobile
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by virgilmobile » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:02 pm

This may help...I assume that your bike continues to run when you turn off the key due to your feeding the pump with manual switched power and it's back feeding into the ignition control module keeping it alive....If you must run the bike this way for temporary use...Disconnect the harness wire under the seat attached to the fuel pump and power ONLY the pump by your temporary fused wiring....
Assuming that this gets you by you then can read about the test and repair/replacing of your ignition module....AND I hope finding the reason your module quit...then taking the necessary steps so it won't happen again....
If the module is actually not providing power to run the pump...I do suggest inspecting/replacing/or otherwise fixing the cause of the problem...Then saftey the circuit by (at least) fusing the pump wire..(4 amp)..or modifying the circuit with a relay to operate the pump using the module to operate the relay only...
Don't just toss another module in there and call it good...It is likley to happen again.
Here's the reading...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14339&start=25#p72687

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:01 pm

DaveO430 wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:01 am
Assuming 91 is the same as 93, the earliest manual I have, if there was a problem with #6 relay it would not even crank. I have a PDF of how to repair the ECU but can't get it to attach here.
Thanks for your reply. I think I've narrowed it down to a stop switch, but have not tested yet, I did go on a 65 mile ride today and everything ran and a good ride withe the jumper wire supplying 12 volts to the fuel pump and back feeding the ecu.Relays and fuses all tested good.

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:09 pm

landisr wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm
I had an almost identical problem recently with my 94A. I started it up (after it had sat for a few weeks) and it ran until it apparently ran out of gas at the carb. I won't go into the painful details of my 'trouble shooting', but it turned out to be the BATTERY. Yes, the voltage to the pump was low suggesting a bad ECM, and jumping 12 volts to the pump it (the pump) would run. I hooked jumper cables from the car to the bike and BINGO. The bike started and ran fine. The old battery had just enough juice to start the bike, but then apparently had barely enough left for the ignition at least for the time it took to empty the float bowls and lines, but not enough for the fuel pump. New battery, and the bike is fine. I just returned from a 3 day, 875 mile ride up along Route 66 in AZ and CA and everything went great.

Moral of the story: Be absolutely sure the battery is HEALTHY. Have it load tested, fully charged or replaced before you continue part swapping. Not hard to do and may save you from more heartache. I learned this the hard way.

Ron in AZ

PS. Ok, I will share a couple details.. My 'T-shooting' included TWO round trips to the local motorcycle bone yard (160 miles total) plus the joy of swapping out the old fuel pump and ECU and swapping them back after no improvement. Bless the yard guys for accepting returns ON ELECTRICAL PARTS! πŸ‘Œ
Thanks for the reply, I did the jump start thing but no start. the fuel pump still had no power. Battery good hols charge and good voltage. she cranks forever. I also know the ecu requires minimum 10 volts to to work and fire ignition. so far I've checked all relays, fuses and connections.
replaced bank angle sensor. All things leading towards engine kill switch. Will keep all posted.

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:26 pm

virgilmobile wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:02 pm
This may help...I assume that your bike continues to run when you turn off the key due to your feeding the pump with manual switched power and it's back feeding into the ignition control module keeping it alive....If you must run the bike this way for temporary use...Disconnect the harness wire under the seat attached to the fuel pump and power ONLY the pump by your temporary fused wiring....
Assuming that this gets you by you then can read about the test and repair/replacing of your ignition module....AND I hope finding the reason your module quit...then taking the necessary steps so it won't happen again....
If the module is actually not providing power to run the pump...I do suggest inspecting/replacing/or otherwise fixing the cause of the problem...Then saftey the circuit by (at least) fusing the pump wire..(4 amp)..or modifying the circuit with a relay to operate the pump using the module to operate the relay only...
Don't just toss another module in there and call it good...It is likley to happen again.
Here's the reading...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14339&start=25#p72687
Thanks Virgilmobile,I do have the fuel pump temp wire fused at 10 amps and this also allows the ecu to give engine spark by a back feed. and i had a great 65 mile ride today with no problems. I have to check the engine kill switch next. I heard they corrode and get stupid. thanks for your reply, and will keep you updated. I do not want this temp power long as it is not right.

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:29 pm

CaNorseman wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:26 pm
virgilmobile wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:02 pm
This may help...I assume that your bike continues to run when you turn off the key due to your feeding the pump with manual switched power and it's back feeding into the ignition control module keeping it alive....If you must run the bike this way for temporary use...Disconnect the harness wire under the seat attached to the fuel pump and power ONLY the pump by your temporary fused wiring....
Assuming that this gets you by you then can read about the test and repair/replacing of your ignition module....AND I hope finding the reason your module quit...then taking the necessary steps so it won't happen again....
If the module is actually not providing power to run the pump...I do suggest inspecting/replacing/or otherwise fixing the cause of the problem...Then saftey the circuit by (at least) fusing the pump wire..(4 amp)..or modifying the circuit with a relay to operate the pump using the module to operate the relay only...
Don't just toss another module in there and call it good...It is likley to happen again.
Here's the reading...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14339&start=25#p72687
Thanks Virgilmobile,I do have the fuel pump temp wire fused at 10 amps and this also allows the ecu to give engine spark by a back feed. and i had a great 65 mile ride today with no problems. I have to check the engine kill switch next. I heard they corrode and get stupid. thanks for your reply, and will keep you updated. I do not want this temp power long as it is not right.
Ill post a picture of my simple temp power after i resolve the problem. a simple set of connections to have handy.

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:36 pm

landisr wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm
I had an almost identical problem recently with my 94A. I started it up (after it had sat for a few weeks) and it ran until it apparently ran out of gas at the carb. I won't go into the painful details of my 'trouble shooting', but it turned out to be the BATTERY. Yes, the voltage to the pump was low suggesting a bad ECM, and jumping 12 volts to the pump it (the pump) would run. I hooked jumper cables from the car to the bike and BINGO. The bike started and ran fine. The old battery had just enough juice to start the bike, but then apparently had barely enough left for the ignition at least for the time it took to empty the float bowls and lines, but not enough for the fuel pump. New battery, and the bike is fine. I just returned from a 3 day, 875 mile ride up along Route 66 in AZ and CA and everything went great.

Moral of the story: Be absolutely sure the battery is HEALTHY. Have it load tested, fully charged or replaced before you continue part swapping. Not hard to do and may save you from more heartache. I learned this the hard way.

Ron in AZ

PS. Ok, I will share a couple details.. My 'T-shooting' included TWO round trips to the local motorcycle bone yard (160 miles total) plus the joy of swapping out the old fuel pump and ECU and swapping them back after no improvement. Bless the yard guys for accepting returns ON ELECTRICAL PARTS! πŸ‘Œ
thanks for your info. I ran the bike 65 miles today with no problems using the temp power to the fuel pump and back feeding the ecu , The symptoms now point to the kill switch. checking that tomorrow. Have eliminated battery,fuses,relays and bas. Keep all updated,

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AZgl1800
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by AZgl1800 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:38 pm

Personally, I would NOT apply power to the fuel pump B terminal unless you first remove the connector from the ECU.

Doing so, is to invite damaging the ECU permanently, as they can't be repaired usually.
~John

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CaNorseman
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by CaNorseman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:43 pm

virgilmobile wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:02 pm
This may help...I assume that your bike continues to run when you turn off the key due to your feeding the pump with manual switched power and it's back feeding into the ignition control module keeping it alive....If you must run the bike this way for temporary use...Disconnect the harness wire under the seat attached to the fuel pump and power ONLY the pump by your temporary fused wiring....
Assuming that this gets you by you then can read about the test and repair/replacing of your ignition module....AND I hope finding the reason your module quit...then taking the necessary steps so it won't happen again....
If the module is actually not providing power to run the pump...I do suggest inspecting/replacing/or otherwise fixing the cause of the problem...Then saftey the circuit by (at least) fusing the pump wire..(4 amp)..or modifying the circuit with a relay to operate the pump using the module to operate the relay only...
Don't just toss another module in there and call it good...It is likley to happen again.
Here's the reading...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14339&start=25#p72687
I agree the safety circuit is required and i will find the cause. Elimination of all external switches fuses relays first before spending 175 on an ecu.

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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:04 am

landisr wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm
I had an almost identical problem recently with my 94A. I started it up (after it had sat for a few weeks) and it ran until it apparently ran out of gas at the carb. I won't go into the painful details of my 'trouble shooting', but it turned out to be the BATTERY. Yes, the voltage to the pump was low suggesting a bad ECM, and jumping 12 volts to the pump it (the pump) would run. I hooked jumper cables from the car to the bike and BINGO. The bike started and ran fine. The old battery had just enough juice to start the bike, but then apparently had barely enough left for the ignition at least for the time it took to empty the float bowls and lines, but not enough for the fuel pump. New battery, and the bike is fine. I just returned from a 3 day, 875 mile ride up along Route 66 in AZ and CA and everything went great.
That's not the first time I have heard this kind of story. The GL1500 ignition is not tolerant of weak batteries or low voltage. When the voltage starts to lower (battery starts to weaken) the very first thing that stops working is the ignition. A good indicator that your battery is starting on its way out is that your engine doesn't actually start until you RELEASE the starter button.

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landisr
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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by landisr » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:30 pm

Been there, done that too. Still have the t-shirt. πŸ‘ŒπŸ˜Š

Ron
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.

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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:32 pm

and when that symptom shows up,
get an AGM battery... don't fool around with another wet cell type.

AGM will start the engine before you can get your finger off the button.
~John

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Re: engine died, lost 12 volts to fuel pumo

Post by Techdude2000 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:53 pm

CaNorseman wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:43 pm
virgilmobile wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:02 pm
This may help...I assume that your bike continues to run when you turn off the key due to your feeding the pump with manual switched power and it's back feeding into the ignition control module keeping it alive....If you must run the bike this way for temporary use...Disconnect the harness wire under the seat attached to the fuel pump and power ONLY the pump by your temporary fused wiring....
Assuming that this gets you by you then can read about the test and repair/replacing of your ignition module....AND I hope finding the reason your module quit...then taking the necessary steps so it won't happen again....
If the module is actually not providing power to run the pump...I do suggest inspecting/replacing/or otherwise fixing the cause of the problem...Then saftey the circuit by (at least) fusing the pump wire..(4 amp)..or modifying the circuit with a relay to operate the pump using the module to operate the relay only...
Don't just toss another module in there and call it good...It is likley to happen again.
Here's the reading...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14339&start=25#p72687
I agree the safety circuit is required and i will find the cause. Elimination of all external switches fuses relays first before spending 175 on an ecu.
Disconnect your added circuit then check the black/white wire on the ECM when the key is on and the run/stop switch is in run. If you have battery power, then the ECM is the culprit. If the power is not there, then you have a break in the wiring from there back to the run/stop switch. If this turns out to be the ECM, you could just cut the wire between the ECM and fuel pump and splice a jumper into the black/white wire to power the pump directly. This will allow it to die when you switch the key off or the run/stop switch without back feeding power into the ECM from the pump wire.



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