Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning


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jomosley
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 5:46 am
Location: Flint, MI
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500

Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Fri May 25, 2018 6:00 am



Hi all!

I am new this forum, however, I have been studying the topics posted on this forum for some time now. However, I am not quite sure if I have come across many topics in regards to what's going on with my bike. If there are existing topics, please do redirect me to it.

The issue:

I have successfully taken the carburetors off the bike, like four months ago when it was cold out. I took them to a local motorcycle mechanic with many-many years of experience with these things. It took him like three months with carbs, busy I guess... Anyways, the issue now is, when I put the carbs back on the bike, I noticed it was like flooded, the cylinders were. So, I took the spark plugs out and started the bike to clean to out, it was something down in the cylinders that appeared to be causing an issue. I proceeded to check for leaks with the airbox off, didn't see any leaks. The next step, after it ran for like a few minutes, I put the airbox back on, and the pain with the hoses and the plastics, but I got them all back on. After all of that, I let the bike run for like ten minutes and adjusted the idle. It was idling at like 850/900 rpm, however, there was a little surge in the idle. I think I need to get the carbs resynced again at the dealer. I need to have it a tad bit running before I do that. Now, the issue lies this morning, it ran last night brought it home washed it up and was going to ride it to work this morning. It started right up with the choke on, then I go to take the choke off, it died a few seconds later. Did I not leave the choke on long enough for it to run? Did it not need to choke initially? I am totally dumbfounded right now. I thought I did everything right followed the book, the shop manual from Honda and the various tutorials on youtube, etc... Now, I feel like I am back to square one.

Any takers as to what might be the issue here???

At this point, I am pretty much desperate. It's leaning to being sold and getting a fuel-injected bike because I simply don't have the time to take all that plastic off and work on it anymore (it was a ton of work!).



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dingdong
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by dingdong » Fri May 25, 2018 7:14 am

Your first step is to start the bike with full choke, immediately move the lever to 1\2 choke, after perhaps 1 minute move lever to no choke or maybe a little longer, They usually will not idle if you remove the choke right away.
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

jomosley
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Fri May 25, 2018 7:18 am

But it won’t start now that I did that.
I am going to put new spark plugs on this evening and see if it works the way you said do it.
1min then half choke and then full off after a minute or so.
I will check back in when i do it!

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Mh434
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by Mh434 » Fri May 25, 2018 4:50 pm

Personally, I suspect that one or more of the carb's vacuum hoses is either not connected or has a small split in it. That is ALL it takes to create the symptoms you're describing. The GL1500 is very susceptible to vacuum leaks and even though a hose looks okay, close examination of their bends, in particular, may reveal tiny cracks or holes.

If I were you, and going that deep into the bike again, I'd replace all those little vacuum hoses. Chances are, that alone will cure its problems.

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Mh434
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by Mh434 » Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 pm

Personally, I suspect that one or more of the carb's vacuum hoses is either not connected or has a small split in it. That is ALL it takes to create the symptoms you're describing. The GL1500 is very susceptible to vacuum leaks and even though a hose looks okay, close examination of their bends & ends (where they're stretched over fittings), in particular, may reveal tiny cracks or holes.

If I were you, and going that deep into the bike again, I'd closely examine all the vacuum hose connections at the carbs, and make absolutely certain that every, single one of them is connected as it should be.

Once you've fixed any vacuum leaks (and I'm pretty sure you have at least one at this point), chances are that will cure your problems.

jomosley
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 7:05 am

dingdong wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:14 am
Your first step is to start the bike with full choke, immediately move the lever to 1\2 choke, after perhaps 1 minute move lever to no choke or maybe a little longer, They usually will not idle if you remove the choke right away.
Hello, I tried this yesterday, it worked until I realized I needed coolants. So this morning, I tried to start the bike it ran for like a few seconds, but then here we go back to not running. That’s where I am at now. Letting the battery charge then I’ll go back out and try it again.

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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 7:07 am

Mh434 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 pm
Personally, I suspect that one or more of the carb's vacuum hoses is either not connected or has a small split in it. That is ALL it takes to create the symptoms you're describing. The GL1500 is very susceptible to vacuum leaks and even though a hose looks okay, close examination of their bends & ends (where they're stretched over fittings), in particular, may reveal tiny cracks or holes.

If I were you, and going that deep into the bike again, I'd closely examine all the vacuum hose connections at the carbs, and make absolutely certain that every, single one of them is connected as it should be.

Once you've fixed any vacuum leaks (and I'm pretty sure you have at least one at this point), chances are that will cure your problems.

Hello: I had the vacuum hoses replaced on all on the carb, then had the other vacuum line replaced just because with fresh ones because I knew they were old. I know I need carb resync, but I don’t think that would keep it from running do you?

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terryt
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by terryt » Sat May 26, 2018 7:54 am

If you say they flooded when you replaced the carbs and tried to start it. then I would take them back off check the float levels then before I refit make sure the hoses are fitted correctly to the carb and engine and air shot valves

You mention that it was something down in the cylinders that appeared to be causing an issue. what is there ?

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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 8:00 am

terryt wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:54 am
If you say they flooded when you replaced the carbs and tried to start it. then I would take them back off check the float levels then before I refit make sure the hoses are fitted correctly to the carb and engine and air shot valves

You mention that it was something down in the cylinders that appeared to be causing an issue. what is there ?
I think gas perhaps but it was cleaned out, at least I presume, when I tried to turn the bike over with the plugs in.
Right now, it seems not to turn over at all. Like you can hear the start clicking but it not catching.

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terryt
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by terryt » Sat May 26, 2018 8:04 am

jomosley wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:00 am
terryt wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:54 am
If you say they flooded when you replaced the carbs and tried to start it. then I would take them back off check the float levels then before I refit make sure the hoses are fitted correctly to the carb and engine and air shot valves

You mention that it was something down in the cylinders that appeared to be causing an issue. what is there ?
I think gas perhaps but it was cleaned out, at least I presume, when I tried to turn the bike over with the plugs in.
Right now, it seems not to turn over at all. Like you can hear the start clicking but it not catching.
You got a fully charged battery. try putting it in 2nd gear and rock the bike backward and foward starter motor my be stuck

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RockportDave
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by RockportDave » Sat May 26, 2018 8:06 am

First, welcome to the forum. I have been a member about a month.
There are many,many things that will keep it from starting, running or idling.
Recently on my newly purchased 1999 SE, I had the carbs off 4 times. I took them apart twice with the last time replacing the idle and main jets, readjusted the float levels and replaced the isolators (boots under the carbs). Replaced one vacuum line that had a hole in it and now it cranks, idles and runs smooth.
There are many vacuum lines under the rubber heat shield and under the intakes. Be sure to check each one.
The float level is very crucial to the way the bike runs, if too low the bike will be too lean. If too high it will be too rich.
I have some posts where I walked through the steps I went through to get mine running, but there are many members on this forum with a lot more knowledge and experience with these bikes and can give great advice.
Dave
1999 GL1500SE 5th Goldwing through the years

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wingdings
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by wingdings » Sat May 26, 2018 11:03 am

hi saw your post there !! - I see your wing is a 88 - model - if you look up virgilmoblie on here he is the king regarding info on the 88's questions to ask yourself here is what was the bike running like before you pulled the carbs out ??

Any fault on a motorcycle can often be traced back - the best way to do this is by finding out when and where it started - its a process of elimination ticking the boxes out one by one - you say the carbs were rebuilt what kit was used to rebuild them ?? - there are a lot of rebuild kits out there - most of them I would not use at all !!!
:o :o :o :o

The kit that most wing users recommend on here is Honda GL1500 - Randakk Master Carb Overhaul Kit®

if you visit the web site you will soon find out why too - https://www.randakks.com/randakks-own-g ... l-kit.html

this is why too -

Exclusive proprietary item and world's best kit!
The GL1500 Master Carb Overhaul Kit includes everything you need (and nothing you don't!) for a comprehensive carb overhaul. These carbs are quite simple and very easy to overhaul. The most difficult part is removal and re-installation of the body "Tupperware," etc. to get to them!
If you've studied Honda's parts fiches for each model year, you'll discover that Honda made many mistakes, duplications, omissions and outright illogical content decisions in their coverage of carb repair "packing sets" for the GL1500. One example: the only way to get the necessary o-rings for the accelerator pump discharge tube from Honda is to buy a whole new accelerator pump discharge tube! Aftermarket repair kits suffer from all these problems.
This Master Kit avoids these issues. You will have all the expendable parts you need to do a thorough, comprehensive overhaul.
You won't find this available anywhere else. Sourced for the best available parts from 3 continents and combined them in a unique combination that represents real value. Kit is appropriate for any 1988 - 2000 GL1500 with original carbs.
The round o-rings in each Master Kit is made of Viton rather than ordinary nitrile (Buna-N) as found in other aftermarket carb kits. Viton is superior to nitrile in terms of:
Heat tolerance (400 degrees F vs. 250 degrees F)
Compression set
Permeation
Did you know that one good case of severe engine overheating can ruin the carb o-rings found in ordinary kits? My o-rings are the best available!
O-ring sizes in this kit are precise. They're equivalent to the exact sizes specified by Honda for each fitment. Not "close-enough" sizes as in many aftermarket kits.

Contents of Randakk's GL1500 Master Carb Overhaul Kit(?

Easy install once you get to this point!

Unlike ordinary aftermarket kits, each Randakk kit provides everything listed for both carbs + other items required for splitting and re-joining the carbs. Included: rebuild kit for the accelerator pump.
Only the highest quality items are included. Thoroughly tested and represents the best value available in the market. You will need everything in this kit to do a proper overhaul of your carbs.
Here's what you get:
Viton O-rings:
2 - fuel (idle) mixture screw (2.8 x 1.1 mm)
2 - float bowl drain screw (4.3 x 1.3 mm)
2 - air cleaner base seal oring (above air horn...94.84 x 3.53 mm)
Accelerator Pump O-rings - install with accelerator pump on right carb (supplied in all kits)
2 - accelerator pump fuel pipe (3.8 x 2.0 mm)
1 - accelerator pump passage at right float bowl (2.8 x 1.9 mm).
Jet Holder O-rings - install at "jet holder" inside most '92 and later carbs only (but supplied in all kits)
2 - slow jet (2.8 x 1.3 mm)
2 - primary main jet (2.8 x 1.3 mm)
2 - secondary emulsion tube (6.0 x 1.3 mm) ...mounts under washer on emulsion tube that secures holder.
Float Bowl Gaskets - 2 of each:
Constructed of superior Viton material to resist the components of modern gasoline.
Miscellaneous Parts:
2 Intake chamber seals (below air horn)
1 accelerator pump overhaul kit with rubber bellows (omitted by some suppliers)
2 idle mixture screw washers
1 mm cotter pins - 7 supplied (simple item, but hard to find elsewhere)
Master Kit includes all needed o-rings including the 3 "jet holder" orings inside later carbs.
Note: No jets, needles or other calibrated parts are supplied. These can normally be cleaned and reused. If you decide you need any calibrated "hard" parts, spring for the genuine Honda bits. In most cases, these are readily available from Honda.
No float valve/seat assemblies in this kit. Many aftermarket rebuild kits include float valve/seat assemblies of dubious quality. Previously, there were problems with these aftermarket items. Most related to the aftermarket float needles being incorrectly sized (too short) resulting in unreliable (or nonexistent) fuel shutoff. The rubber tips and seats on the OEM item will last nearly forever and can usually be cleaned and reused. If you decide to reuse your existing float assemblies, be sure to remove and clean the small fuel strainer beneath the float seat! This also helps us to keep cost down and give you a choice on what to buy if you think new ones are needed.
If you need new float valve/seat assemblies, you can buy the OEM item. You'll also get new fuel inlet screens (the plastic strainers installed below each float valve).
Considerable skill is required to install this (29 piece) high quality kit correctly. Since Randakk's cannot control this important variable, there is no warranty. Rest assured that they are of the highest quality materials and workmanship. Each kit has been carefully packed and inspected to ensure that all items are included.
No fuel filter is included but it would be a crime to not take prudent measures to ensure a pure fuel supply! Randakk's recommends OEM Honda filter as a high quality replacement unit.
Randakk's High Performance Fuel Filter is now offered with sizes to fit virtually any carbureted motorcycle.
Warning: Please open the package very carefully when it arrives. Many of the parts are very small so take appropriate precautions. If you chose to open the package in the dark over your gravel driveway, after 1 or 12 beers, please don't later complain that you are a "few o-rings short." Seriously, do be careful when you open the package!
Not sure can handle your own rebuild? Then consider Randakk's Approved Honda Carb Rebuilder Program.

To read more reviews on this and other products visit our Review Site, http://www.randakksreviews.com

lastly - if the bike was running ok before you tore out the carbs it must be something you did when you put them back in again - try looking at the following vids -













good point about the vac pipes more so with the ones under the rubber mat - hope this helps best regards too :D :D :D :D :D

jomosley
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Location: Flint, MI
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 11:39 am

Hi and thanks for the thorough response. I will look at my receipt as to what kit the mechanic used. He gave me all my old parts back and I will inspect them to see what he used and so forth.

I subscribe to Clifford, the guy in the video, he's one of the best I could find in terms of fixing stuff on the Goldwing! Every I have seen or spoke to has told me that the Goldwing 1500 is the best, so I guess I will stick with it. I have found a mechanic, willing, to work on the bike. I cannot do anymore, simply I don't have the time nor do I have any more patience left with the bike to try to work on it without destroying the machine, haha! :)

I will, however, still inspect the kit used to overhaul the carbs, and look at what else you mentioned in your response. Again, thank you for the thorough response, it's much appreciated!

-Jo

jomosley
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 11:45 am

RockportDave wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:06 am
First, welcome to the forum. I have been a member about a month.
There are many,many things that will keep it from starting, running or idling.
Recently on my newly purchased 1999 SE, I had the carbs off 4 times. I took them apart twice with the last time replacing the idle and main jets, readjusted the float levels and replaced the isolators (boots under the carbs). Replaced one vacuum line that had a hole in it and now it cranks, idles and runs smooth.
There are many vacuum lines under the rubber heat shield and under the intakes. Be sure to check each one.
The float level is very crucial to the way the bike runs, if too low the bike will be too lean. If too high it will be too rich.
I have some posts where I walked through the steps I went through to get mine running, but there are many members on this forum with a lot more knowledge and experience with these bikes and can give great advice.
Dave
Dave, thank you for your response. As mentioned to 'wingding' response, I had used a professional mechanic to redo the carburetors, and I have had the vacuum lines to the various place either replaced or inspected. I am taking the bike to another mechanic that will be able to do the work as I am not able to anymore, my patience has left. I have been working on this bike for the past 9 months, I am not getting very far with it. So, I think it would be best to take it in. As for the other things, I have tried to start the bike with starting fluid, it ran for like two secs, hence it's a carburation issue. Again, I am not going to take that stuff all off again myself, too much work. But I will let the mechanic know to look out for what you suggested. Many of the things you mention were done with the guy that overhauled the carbs.

Again thank you!

-Jo

jomosley
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 11:47 am

terryt wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:04 am
jomosley wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:00 am
terryt wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:54 am
If you say they flooded when you replaced the carbs and tried to start it. then I would take them back off check the float levels then before I refit make sure the hoses are fitted correctly to the carb and engine and air shot valves

You mention that it was something down in the cylinders that appeared to be causing an issue. what is there ?
I think gas perhaps but it was cleaned out, at least I presume, when I tried to turn the bike over with the plugs in.
Right now, it seems not to turn over at all. Like you can hear the start clicking but it not catching.
You got a fully charged battery. try putting it in 2nd gear and rock the bike backward and foward starter motor my be stuck
Sir, I will try to do that method before I take the bike down to the mechanic to be worked on. I hope it works. It certainly worth a try. Letting the battery charge back up to full and then I will go back out to rock the bike back and forth in second gear and see if it catches.

Thank you for your help!

-Jo

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wingdings
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by wingdings » Sat May 26, 2018 12:14 pm

not a problem - jo glad to help - most people are scared to death to work on their wing - however if you just take your time be methodical take pics as you take it off the bike - put the nut or the blot back in where you took it from - you cannot go wrong !! - oh and use the how to's on the site too !! - I have posted quite a few up there myself and can remember a time when I was scared to even touch my wing !! however with all the help that people have given me over the years I no longer have to pay a shop to do the work myself now I even have posted how to's on here that do not exist in any shop manual - oh defo drop virgilmoblie a line - he will defo sort it out for you jo - he's the king of the 88 wings :D :D :D best problem solver ever too !!… :) :) :)

jomosley
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 12:20 pm

Sir, thank you for that! I am not too afraid to work on the bike. I have had the bike all the way down to the motor, for the most part, to get to some of those vacuum lines. But, I don't have the time to get back to taking all of that stuff back off the bike. :) :) A real pain. I will drop virgilmoblie, a line shortly. Thank you for recommending him!

-Jo

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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sat May 26, 2018 8:28 pm

Hello everyone, an update:

I had a HARD start of the day today. I charged the battery like three times today, from starting the bike but not starting. I had to mess with the choke a lot, being a cleaned carburetor, the machine won't start with the choke fully on... I am like, what!? But I tried the bike with the starter pressed and moving the choke up and down, I am sure this is not right. But I am had no other choice, I was desperate today.

It started hard, once it did start. I think it might be carburation related, but I am not sure still. On the PLUS side, I rode 250+ miles today, two fill-ups, stopped like 6 times (tender butt from not being able to ride), and I turned the bike off multiple times. It turns over each time, I was surprised I thought I would have had to be picked up by a tow truck or something. But we shall see when I go to start it tomorrow morning to see if it was just a TODAY thing or a serious issue. I know I have to get the carburetors RESYNCED, and at the point, have the person inspect the vacuum lines and check my handy-work with the carb install.

I will let you all know tomorrow how it goes. I am planning (if all goes well) to join my co-worker on Monday for the Memorial day ride with the PD.

Best,
Jo

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terryt
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by terryt » Sun May 27, 2018 1:24 am

Its good to hear it started in the end and you had a long run 250mile. the starter valve stuck may be stuck on or the choke cable may be stuck and not returning fully

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wingdings
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by wingdings » Sun May 27, 2018 3:34 am

Hi - jo been following your post there - have a look at these and defo 100% message virgilmoblie fella - !! - just look om my posts his name will come a lot - lol .. :D :D :D :D :D

















Did you check the fuel filter ??? and what cleaners did you use to clean up the carbs ?? -




jomosley
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Sun May 27, 2018 3:47 pm

I have found a possible culprit, the accelerator pump does not prime when the bike key is on or when I go to move the throttle. No gas comes out the little fangs, I call them, on top of the carburetors. I figured this out when I looked and didn’t see any gas. I dropped a little gas in each hole and then boom, the bike started. It died, the battery was completely dead that point due to me trying to start it all day.
What are some ways to get the accelerator pump to prime again.
Thanks all and happy Memorial Day!
-Jo

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terryt
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by terryt » Mon May 28, 2018 2:02 am

You will have to remove the air filter box to see the carbs. then turn throttle to see if accelerator pump is working connected

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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by ct1500 » Mon May 28, 2018 6:13 am

jomosley wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:47 pm
I have found a possible culprit, the accelerator pump does not prime when the bike key is on or when I go to move the throttle. No gas comes out the little fangs, I call them, on top of the carburetors. I figured this out when I looked and didn’t see any gas. I dropped a little gas in each hole and then boom, the bike started. It died, the battery was completely dead that point due to me trying to start it all day.
What are some ways to get the accelerator pump to prime again.
Thanks all and happy Memorial Day!
-Jo
An accelerator pump shot is not a requirement for starting the 1500 and has nothing to do with it not starting now but is a clue. Because it did fire with a small amount of gas directly added it is likely fuel is not getting to the carbs and would be due to fuel pump inactivity, fuel filter or petcock problems.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by jomosley » Mon May 28, 2018 6:47 am

How do I test the pump, petcock, and filter to see which ones is responsible?

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terryt
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Re: Machine won't run well, even after professional carb cleaning

Post by terryt » Mon May 28, 2018 6:52 am

ct1500 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:13 am
jomosley wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:47 pm
I have found a possible culprit, the accelerator pump does not prime when the bike key is on or when I go to move the throttle. No gas comes out the little fangs, I call them, on top of the carburetors. I figured this out when I looked and didn’t see any gas. I dropped a little gas in each hole and then boom, the bike started. It died, the battery was completely dead that point due to me trying to start it all day.
What are some ways to get the accelerator pump to prime again.
Thanks all and happy Memorial Day!
-Jo
An accelerator pump shot is not a requirement for starting the 1500 and has nothing to do with it not starting now but is a clue. Because it did fire with a small amount of gas directly added it is likely fuel is not getting to the carbs and would be due to fuel pump inactivity, fuel filter or petcock problems.
As may preveious post on the 26th . float levels as well



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