fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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fibersport
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fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:11 pm



Went on a 50 mile run today with a friend, while I usually stick to main roads on my daily commuter, he led and chose a nice widing route that lent itself to some spirited riding. Nearing the restaurant, I noticed an occasional miss around 2500-3000 rpm. coming to a stop at a light, the engine died, it started right up but seemed to have a bad flat spot on take off. Things progressively got worse and now I noticed the engine didn't sound normal. Here are my observances:
- occasional miss at cruising speed
- dies on deceleration
- sounds like it's running on 4 cylinders
- starts fine but wants either choke or throttle to stay running
- exhaust smells kind of different, not necessary rich
- I can hear a slight knock when revving the engine
- plugs look like they are running lean, right bank look a bit more lean than the left but none are oil soaked

I have changed the timing belt about 3500 miles ago. I bought the bike last year with 62000 on it and have done very little to it. Oil level is fine, temp is normal and no other warning lights. Bike is a 1990.

It would seem to me that maybe it's fuel related, since it's running lean could this be a plugged fuel filter? I had a similar situation with my 327 Chevy in my boat which after installing a bigger water separator/filter and ignition coil it's been runnign great. Since my plugs are dry, I would think it isn't ignition. Another thought I had would be a stuck valve but am leaning towards fuel or maybe vacuum lines.

Looking for some suggestions on where to continue looking as I have all the plastic off and am not seeing anything out of the ordinary. I'm very handy and have built my share of engines over the years, so I'm not afraid to tear into it. Thanks in advance - Greg



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NOVAwing
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by NOVAwing » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:46 pm

Easy enough to rule out fuel.

Pull the fuel line off the filter exit side and use a jumper wire from battery to the fuel pump postive point.

That will make the pump run, point it into a bucket lol.

If you search there is also a way to measure output volume with a measuring cup to make sure pump is not weak.

Not sure about after that, probably vac lines?
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

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Stew
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by Stew » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:51 pm

Others have reported a vacuum developing in the fuel tank from a poorly venting gas cap causing it to be starved for fuel. Easy enough to see if that’s it, next time it happens pop the gas cap off and see if it’s back to normal, if so it’s your gas cap.
Winging it every chance I get 8-)

19,119 miles when I got it from dad Oct 15, 2017 --- 24,532 miles and counting as of Oct 17, 2018!

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virgilmobile
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:26 pm

It's funny (not really) that you mention a stuck valve.
Altho rare I have heard of a couple of wings that developed this problem..getting worst untill it wouldn't run.
A quick compression test showed little to no compression on most of the cylinders.
Seems the hydraulic lash adjusters we're getting stuck not allowing the valves to completely close...
Amusing fix..Remove all plugs..5th gear and hand roll the engine backwards a few times...repeat every several hours for a day and retest the compression.
Change oil and add Sea foam.Treat engine (30 min run)and replace the oil again.
This is just a side note In case the other ideas don't fix it.

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WvChamp
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by WvChamp » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:31 pm

"Amusing fix..Remove all plugs..5th gear and hand roll the engine backwards a few times...repeat every several hours for a day and retest the compression."
Inquiring minds hafta know. Why Backwards ?

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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:55 pm

Maybe to undo what was done?

Sorry, just had to. Here's an update: tried to check compression but my screw in tester is the wrong size. Took off the air cleaner base and did not see anything obvious. Opened the gas cap and I believe it was pressurized and not vacuum. Put the plugs back in and connected all of them, started the bike and it idled very poorly, would not run without choke until it got warmed up, then it would still idle poorly. Exhaust note still odd, kind of choked off. Pulled one plug wire off and started the bike, ran worse. Proceeded to remove each plug wire one at a time and started the engine, in each case it ran worse. Plugged all in and it was back to the original poor idle. Removed the timing belt cover and checked that the timing marks were correct which they were. I did not check the timing yet. Oh, since all the Honda shops are closed on Monday's and couldn't pick up a new filter, I removed the filter and was able to blow through it with almost no restriction, inside is very clean as is the tank so I don't think it was a plugged filter. So for now I believe I have ruled out ignition and fuel which in my mind points to a vacuum leak. Remember the engine runs great over 1500-2000 which is where a vacuum leak would not affect the engine that much.

I seem to remember a thread here that someone had a poor idle and found a cracked vacuum line somewhere, I think it may have been linked up with a surging idle too? By the way, my idle does surge a little with the choke on, once it warms up the surging seems to go away. If anyone remembers that post please let me know.

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virgilmobile
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:49 pm

Rolling the engine backwards operates the oil pump backwards too.This draws oil out of the valve lash adjusters bucket allowing them to reset to there original position.
This did work for one fellow who lost compression here in the states and finally(months later in the UK) was able to get it back running with just this method.Rather than tearing the lifters out and cleaning them by hand.

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Mh434
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by Mh434 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:01 pm

You didn’t, by any chance, fill up shortly before this happened, did you?

My GL1500 did the same thing, after getting bad gas (lots of dirt & water along with the fuel). I used Seafoam (3 cans of it, over 4-5 tanks of clean gas), restoring it to 100% normal running.

I like to try the easy & cheap fixes first, before tearing things apart...

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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:49 am

I did fill up just before we left. I buy gas there all the time and from what I saw in the tank, at least there doesn't seem to be any dirt. I should drain it and see if there is any water though. I agree, sometimes the easy and/cheaper things are better.

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minimac
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by minimac » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:19 am

I'm surprised no one suggested changing -or at least checking-your fuel filter. Eliminate one thing at a time. Gas cap, fuel filter,Fuel itself, fuel pump pressure. If all are good, move to the next item. Timing, spark, etc. If all is good there, it's time to tear into it a little further and check or replace all of the vacuum hose, even the hard to get ones. Also make sure the carbs are cleaned and jets aren't plugged or clogged. Just running a cleaner through them won't do the trick often.

pigpen
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by pigpen » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:40 am

First thing I'd check is fuel filter and air cleaner. My GL1500 ran bad for 2 and half years and I couldn't figure out the problem even after changing filters, rebuilding carbs and replacing timing belts. It turned out to be a vacuum line on the back side was damaged. I had forgotten how good the old girl runs when things work properly.

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kane67
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by kane67 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:45 am

Check ORN vacuum line that there is vacuum to ECU.



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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:39 pm

I did check the fuel filter on Sunday, couldn't buy a new one yesterday since the Honda dealers were closed on Sun/Mon. Tonight, just to be sure I bypassed the filter, it ran the same meaning poorly. I believe it's a vacuum line as Kane67 suggests, it's the most labor intensive so I've saved it for last. Thanks for all the suggestions.

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kane67
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by kane67 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:17 pm

If you follow that vacuum line from ECU, you should find a t-connected short vacuum hose in that ORN line. It has a plastic plug what you can remove. I don’t know if this is originally made for service.
It is somewhere visible in right side. While back I tested mine and removing vacuum from ICU (88-89 model called ICU) it drops idle bad, I think other leaky vacuum hoses does not effect so clear for idle.

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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:58 am

Thanks kane67, I guess I will be getting deeper into this, I had hoped it was something easy but I guess not. I have read other posts that talk about the same line you mention as being a very common problem.

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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:56 pm

I pulled the carbs off tonight and found two holes in the hose that Kane67 suggested (thanks Kane67), one at the bend and one at the other end. It looks like the hose has deteriorated maybe because of gas, it was very soft and almost slimy. All the other hoses look to be in good shape.

To those that have had this same problem, just how bad did it run and what were the symptoms?

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kane67
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by kane67 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:30 am

Any updates on this?
Well, I don’t know really how it would act. I have just tested how it behaves (idle) when vacuum is missing.
I replaced all hoses three years ago (first winter maintenance) after reading all possible hints&tips to update an old 1500 wing :)
Since then wing is been ok. I just made one stupid mistake when I added a hose from carb vent pipe to under bike. When faced a rain, it somehow blocked carb’s venting and got a weird powerloss :lol:
Can’t blaim but myself :D

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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:02 am

Well tonight I managed to get the bike together enough to start it and it ran great! Thank you very much to all involved. It's too bad that a little piece of rubber hose can basically disable a bike. Although it was a cheap repair, although it took many hours to do it. I still need to put about 1/2 the plastic back on but it looks like rain the next few days so it will give me something to do.

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kane67
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by kane67 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:23 am

Great!!

I replaced all vacuum hose lines one by one; orange, green, blue, red, yellow and all carbs white hoses.

br, kane

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fibersport
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by fibersport » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:24 am

I think the easiest way to change the vacuum lines would be to either buy a newer bike or pull the engine! What a pain in the butt!

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DenverWinger
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Re: fuel, ignition or worse peoblem?

Post by DenverWinger » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:11 am

Jack up the radiator cap and put a new bike under it. :mrgreen:


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