Split charge relay


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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terryt
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1989 gl1500 trike

Split charge relay

Post by terryt » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:51 am



Hi I'm looking a fitting a Voltage sensing split charge relay to my gl1500 trike

Will this be ok. Fit VSR and second gl1500 battery in the side pannier with a 30amp ignition switched relay to a fuse box for extra lights spot and driving a sat nav and dash cam. then a separate fuse box fused direct from the battery to feed a alarm and usb charging points. diagram attached. Thanks
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DenverWinger
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by DenverWinger » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am

Some specs on the relay would be helpful. Diagram does not explain what it does.
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terryt
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by terryt » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 am

DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am
Some specs on the relay would be helpful. Diagram does not explain what it does.
It a split charge relay it opens at 13.7 volts to charge the second battery it it goes below 12. volts it closes

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AZgl1800
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:51 am

terryt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 am
DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am
Some specs on the relay would be helpful. Diagram does not explain what it does.
It a split charge relay it opens at 13.7 volts to charge the second battery it it goes below 12. volts it closes
That sounds like the voltage regulator on my old 1951 Plymouth.... it worked just like that.
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terryt
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by terryt » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:05 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:51 am
terryt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 am
DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am
Some specs on the relay would be helpful. Diagram does not explain what it does.
It a split charge relay it opens at 13.7 volts to charge the second battery it it goes below 12. volts it closes
That sounds like the voltage regulator on my old 1951 Plymouth.... it worked just like that.
This is the unit used for charging leisure battery's in mobile homes camper vans
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-140-AMP- ... 0276.m3476

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Sadanorakman
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by Sadanorakman » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:46 pm

What you propose makes little to no sense to me. Perhaps you can further explain why you think you need the extra battery?

Caravans/campers employ split chargers to re-charge a deep-cycle leisure battery whilst driving. It takes advantage of the extra capacity available from the vehicle's altenator, above that required to run the 'normal' electrical loads of the vehicle when being driven.

That leisure battery is then used when parked-up to run lights, fans, radios, portable tv's etc... all over a number of hours or days whilst the vehicle engine is not running. Then when back on the road, the leisure battery is replenished from the running engine.

All the accessories that you list seem to me to normally be utilised Whilst the engine is running (apart from the alarm). So why would you need (or want) to explicitly run these from a second battery? If you are worried that your overall electrical load is in excess of your average altenator output, then adding a second battery is like putting a band-aid over a bullet-hole. ...It will only delay the inevitable which will ultimately be two flat (and knackered) batteries! E.g If your altenator is only putting out an average of 25 amps, but you're drawing 30-35, it's not going to be many hours before you are in trouble!

If you want a beefier 'reserve' of electrical power, do you just have room for a car battery in your trike? If you choose the right battery, that could give you a better cold-cranking amperage capability (CCA) than a bike battery, making the engine quicker to turn over and start, with more energy in reserve if the engine ever needs to turn over a few times to start in adverse conditions. It would also outlive a bike battery if looked after, as it is of a greater starting capacity than required, so will not be hammered as much by that engine cranking.

To me, it would only make sense to do what you are suggesting, if you really really want that additional reserve capacity to run these loads for a short time when the engine is off, without running the risk of flattening the 'main' battery which would then leave you unable to start the trike.

Remember that a bike battery is not designed for deep-cycle use; it plate construction is optimised for high cranking amerage output for a few seconds for engine starting. This makes it a very bad design for cyclic use (repeated deep discharge then recharge), and would be rapidly killed by this type of 'leisure-battery' usage-cycle.

There might be a benefit in having a second battery there on a split charger 'just in case' the main battery becomes accidentally discharged somehow, in which case you could then physically swap it with, or link it electrically with the flat battery to 'jump-start' the trike... It's the sort of thing you would provision in a 4x4 vehicle if you operated hundreds of miles from civilisation, and needed that backup starting battery to be available.

Please clarify your thoughts for me to better understand.

Regards, Craig.
Last edited by Sadanorakman on Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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terryt
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by terryt » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:18 pm

Hi Craig. Thanks for your reply
I'm looking at using the second battery motorbike type purely for running extra riding lights. side marker lights. power for a alarm system, sat nav tracker and usb charging. so im not draining power from the main battery when riding or parked up

Thanks

Terry

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Sadanorakman
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by Sadanorakman » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:10 pm

terryt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:18 pm
Hi Craig. Thanks for your reply
I'm looking at using the second battery motorbike type purely for running extra riding lights. side marker lights. power for a alarm system, sat nav tracker and usb charging. so im not draining power from the main battery when riding or parked up

Thanks

Terry
... Sat nav tracker! Ah! I read it first time around as a sat nav, not a tracker that would be powered 24/7...a theft tracking device?

Ok. So your logic about running a second battery for an alarm and tracker makes some sense (long-term low power draw whilst the trike is not being ridden). But you'd do just as well to run them from the main battery and keep a battery tender attached to maintain that battery when the trike is not being ridden. This is because the main battery suffers parasitic current draw from clock/ radio memory etc anyway, plus its constant internal self-discharge because if it's chemistry.

Not so sure about the rest of your statement though. If for example you wanted to run 'show lighting' like strobes and led strips all over the trike when on stationery display (engine off) for a couple of hours at a bike-meet, then yep it makes total sense. You then still get to start the engine to ride it away when you've finished posing, instead of looking a fool with a flat battery.

You said though: 'so im not draining power from the main battery when riding or parked up '.

When your riding, then you shouldn't be draining anything at all from the battery,
regardless of the size of the battery in place.
This is because the altenator should be providing all of the power for everything electrical you are running, and at the same time having surplus capacity to put charge back into the battery to replace what was used when starting the bike.
If you've got a factory altenator, then it puts out little current at tick-over (engine idling), which may put you in an electrical defecit whilst queing in traffic (i.e. drawing from the battery), which will then need to be replaced when you're back to riding at speed. This is difficult to achieve if the alternator's max output is only slightly above the load you are drawing when riding. The trick here is to still ensure that your average load does not exceed the average alternator output. If things start to get marginal, i.e. you keep drawing more power than you're generating, then you'll quickly get into trouble.

Replacing power-hungry halogen headlamps and driving lamp bulbs with led's will give more light output at around a quarter of the current consumption, which would do wonders for your overall power budget. Replacement of the altenator with a 90 amp version will do the trick if you're running heavy loads like heated clothing or seat, or a fat stereo booster amplifier or sub woofer in 'da trunk'

The second part of your statement says 'when parked up'. ...yep, great... I can see you might leave side-marker lights on whilst sat hanging around drinking a coffee/chatting with your buddies, but you'll most likely not be running your headlights or driving lights at this time, just side lights.

I guess what I'm saying is if you need to be running substantial electrical loads for more than a few minutes whilst the engine is not running, then great; go for your plan. Remembering that if you do use a bike battery as the second battery, then it's not designed for cyclic deep discharge.

If your main thinking is that the second battery is going to help you to run your bling whilst you're out riding, then this is flawed thinking, and we're back to the band-aid and bullet-hole scenario. In this case you'd be better to control your power expenditure ( turn off heated seat or clothes whilst idling in traffic, replace halogen lamps with led's), or increase the electrical generating capacity of your bike with a suitable after-market alternator. This is so that you always have a power surplus available whilst you are riding.

Regards,

Craig.
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:10 pm

Interesting concept; however, the first thing you have to do is an electrical system load analysis. Find out what the load is without any additional add ons.

The stock alternator for a 1500 is approximately 40 amps. Once the battery has started the engine, it should be replenished to 100% state of charge quite quickly then the current to the battery should be like a trickle charge say 2 amps. As mentioned the battery is to start the engine, provide additional power should the electrical system voltage drop below battery charge of approximately 12.6 VDC, and to absorb electrical system spikes to protect the electrical system - this is why it is not recommended to operate a vehicle, car/bike/whatever without a battery.

Once you have the initial load determined, add to the list the amps needed for the new additions, and approximate time these items will be in use. This will provide you with the amps needed to operate the bike. After this is done, a higher output alternator may be in your future to provide sufficient power, maybe add 20% amp capacity for good measure.

Adding a second battery to power items when the bike is shut down, should be as mentioned a deep cycle battery. A lot of people have installed these in pull trailers, and I would surmise trikes as well because of the ability to handle more extra weight. You have to add the extra battery into your calculations.

Adding an accessory fuse block that is switched by a relay to ensure there is no power draw when the bike is shut down is a good decision. The OEM wiring was and is designed to just meet the bike's electrical system requirements as made at the factory. Splicing into the existing wiring for additional items may not be a good idea, don't want to overload the existing wiring - just my opinion.

You first have to know the electrical load, then determine system requirements from this analysis.

Just my thoughts. Cheers
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Sadanorakman
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Re: Split charge relay

Post by Sadanorakman » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:33 am

Morning Terry.

I got a little hung up on the details last night, as it was 11pm for me, after a long day training a bunch of guys and a 120 mile round commute.

With fresh eyes this morning, I stand by all of the advice I gave last night, particularly the power budget, and ensuring you are not constantly in defecit. Having said this, if you are intent on that extra battery, the way you propose to do it sounds very sensible to me... Definitely split charge relay, and an ignition-switched relay to isolate loads when the engine is not running. Also fuses to protect everything, including anything that is 'hard-wired' to the battery such as the theft tracker and alarm.

With the gl1500's ignition not tolerating much of a voltage drop before losing the ability to spark, then your proposal can't be slammed for being too bad. If you do end up adding the second battery, just consider how you could connect it in an emergency to use it to start the bike.

I'm considering doing the ignition modification on my own 1500 that's posted around here to minimise voltage drop to the ignition module whilst cranking, and I intend to also mount a lithium-polymer jump-starter pack in the bottom of my left saddle-bag, and will wire this in to an appropriate charger tapped into my switched auxiliary circuit... These only weigh around a pound, but can hold a third of the capacity of the bike's main battery... Ideal to jump start in an emergency. After getting stranded with my car a couple of hundred miles from home because of a minor electrical fault which flattened my battery over the several days I was parked-up at a customer, I've taken to carrying a spare small car battery in the boot of my station wagon during winter months, just in case. I've not wired it into a split charge relay, I just make sure I charge it every two months to keep it topped up.

Maybe consider a gel battery like you'd find in a UPS if the loads you plan to draw are not too high, as this will handle deep-cycle duties much better than a bike battery. You wouldn't be able to use it on its own to start the bike in an emergency, but you would be ok to connect it in parallel to a 'flat' main bike battery for a few minutes to get some charge back into that to then start the bike.

Regards, and let us know what you end up doing please.


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