1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM


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kmalbee
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1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:53 pm



I'm at a loss and I need your help. The bike has 33k mile on it. I have changed the timing belts, installed iridium plugs and a new air filter. I let the bike sit up for about a month or two and when I took it out for a ride the entire left side #2, 4 and 6 cylinder weren't firing, pipes didn't heat up at all. After much inner turmoil, I pulled the carbs cleaned and rebuilt them. and the bike runs great except at very light engine load it skips and misses. I did slowly add choke and it doesn't make an difference. I adjusted the pilot screws according to the Honda manual, no improvement. When I start it cold with choke, it randomly pops through the exhaust, lights pops not like a back fire. I pulled the iridium plugs, and replaced with conventional plugs. I noted the two center plugs had black spots on the inner porcelain. The new plugs didn't make any difference. So the bike idles perfectly, no surge, no misses. When I add throttle it performs like a Goldwing should, tons of pull and real smooth. The accelerator pumps produce nice smooth jets of gas. So I'm thinking I may be off by one tooth on one or both belts but I just can't believe it would run as good as it does. I'm also suspecting a problem or an intermittent electrical connector on the primary side of the coil that fires the #2 and 3 cylinders because of the condition of the two center plugs. The inner porcelain of the other plugs are white, but I've been told that's not abnormal, albeit on the lean side. Before I tear back into this foolish bike yet again I'm wondering if a compression check might reveal a valve timing problem or if a timing light might shed some light if the mark are way off. Please help, thanks guys. Oh by the way, Seaform did nothing for me in keeping the non-ethanol gas from gumming up the carbs.



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virgilmobile
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by virgilmobile » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:15 pm

Yes the bike will run "one tooth off"..not the best however..
Easy to check on the 1500...watch the belt tention.
Let it idle and slowly pull each plug wire off the plug..just on one side..listen to it snap..move to the other plugs...They should "sound" the same..snap snap snap..nice and loud..A good healthy spark..Don't pull the plug wire all the way out..just enough to hear it snapping.
My #2 coil was bad..it showed as a weak snapping.
Process of elimination.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:30 am

Great suggestion, I'll try that this evening. There is also a resistance value in the manual that I can verify. I'll let you know what I find.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by virgilmobile » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:36 am

There probably was..I didn't even look.I did comparison measurements.The middle was half the resistance of the other two.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:29 pm

I just checked for spark noise as you suggested and I didn't find any discernible difference in spark noise or intensity from cylinder to cylinder. I'm not sure what you meant by your comment "The middle was half the resistance of the other two". Did you check your bike or find that or read it in the service manual?

When I started the bike cold just now, the random popping doesn't start until the bike has run for about a minute or so.

I'm going to check resistance on both the primary and secondary side of the coils. I'll also do a compression check just to rule out belt position and valve timing. I'll keep you posted. If you can think of anything else, I'm all ears.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by virgilmobile » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:03 pm

Half the resistance..When I heard the different spark,I removed the coil pack (3coils)and measured primary resistance.I found the center coil resistance much lower than the 2 outside coils.You don't have this problem...You day all the sparking is even..A good sign..Move on to the belts.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:57 pm

I checked resistance on both the primary and secondary side of the coils and all are in spec. I also checked the resistance of each pulse generator and both are in spec. I am going to the belts now to check that the marks are still on. I'll keep you posted.

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ct1500
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by ct1500 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:35 pm

The 1500 ignition system is pretty much bullet-proof. Most running problems can be traced back to carb and mixture problems.

Remove air box cover and air filter. With a can of carb clean crotched road test bike to the offending RPM and hold there then spray the carb clean into one for a test then the other carb throat. Don't mash the spray button just a controlled application starting lite, mashing it will flood that bank. Report what the outcome is. ;) At lite load and those RPM you are running on just the idle and main circuits of carb. Make sure both slides are fully closed with engine off and that they operate in tandem when revving/riding under load.
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kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm

I checked the belts and the marks all line up. I'll retention the belts as they slacked a bit since new. I'll put things back together and look a fuel/carb and vacuum related issues. Spraying the precise amount of carb cleaner into each carb may help to ID which carb. I'll give it a try.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:17 pm

I made some small adjustments to the synchronizer screw and I could get the popping to go away but it still misses between 2000 to 2500. I guess I'll need to get some gauges to sync the carbs. Do you know where I can get the vacuum fitting for the right bank?

tnt9339
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1990 GL 1500A Aspencade

Previously owned;
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by tnt9339 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:03 pm

I got my fitting from Partzilla.

Fitting 17113-MT8-000 $5.83

Washer 90452-323-000 $1.14

Tony

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:18 pm

Thanks Tony, I just bought gauges and fitting for $30 on Amazon, I'll have them by the weekend.

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ct1500
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by ct1500 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:09 pm

kmalbee wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:17 pm
I made some small adjustments to the synchronizer screw and I could get the popping to go away but it still misses between 2000 to 2500. I guess I'll need to get some gauges to sync the carbs. Do you know where I can get the vacuum fitting for the right bank?
Many will start jacking sync screws looking for a cure to running problems, what ends up happening 99% of the time is the weak carburetor is simply cancelled out or dialed down masking the original problem with poor fuel mileage, lack of power and generally the same symptom. A crappy running engine is not developing full and normal intake manifold vacuum and makes a sync pointless. Follow this procedure under shade tree by pulling plug wires and using carb clean to identify the cause. .

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2- ... -test.html
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
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kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:47 pm

I think it's important to have properly synchronized carburetors particularly when troubleshooting. I just received my gauges and fittings today so that my first project. I plan to use the carb cleaner approach to ID rich/lean condition. I am also going to use an unlit propane torch to see if I may have a vacuum leak somewhere but given the original problem I'm convinced I'll be pulling the carbs again. Rich or lean? I'm thinking if I have a lean condition, I likely have a partially blocked low speed jet and I'll remove the carbs again and go through the offending carb. I don't know what to do if I have a rich condition in either carb. Just a reminder the bike idles perfectly and performs great at higher throttle positions, the problem is around 2500 rpm at low engine load. I'll keep you posted.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:20 pm

Just synchronized the carbs. They weren't that far off. I pulled the air filter and covered the left carb and it bumped up a bit in rpm before it started to die. I did the same on the right and the rpm bumped up a bit more before it started to die. I sprayed some carb cleaner into each carb and both bumped up a bit then went back to normal rpm. I have heard of people putting toothpicks in the little tube that sticks up in the throat of the carb so I thought I'd try covering them with my finger and the bike smooths right out at 2500 rpm.

I'm not sure what this all means but I'll take any suggestions you have for me.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:35 pm

I pulled the carbs and removed the pilot screws. Both were pretty corroded so I'm going to replace them both and reinstall the carbs. I sprayed the port out real good and blew them out with air compressor. I also found that the tubes I mentioned earlier go to the pilot screw port. I'll reassemble and let you know if any changes.

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ct1500
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by ct1500 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:32 pm

You likely have a varnish build-up in the low speed (pilot) jets. More often than not no amount of carb clean and compressed air can get this very hard varnish out and they will need to be gone through with welding tip cleaners making sure not to remove any brass enlarging in the process. It is always recommended to replace float bowl gaskets and O-rings on jet retainer as they will be fairly deformed after this amount of time and a few on and offs. :D
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kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:11 am

Agreed, that's not an easy port to clean thoroughly, lets hope for the best. All rubber was replaced during carb rebuild. Lesson learned, I should have done this when I first rebuilt the carbs. That's what I get for taking shortcuts. On the plus side, you all can take advantage of my mistakes. Hopefully this evening I'll get the pilots adjusted and be able to report some good news. No worries, I won't be opening a Goldwing repair shop anytime soon.

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:19 pm

I just put toothpick in the pilot air intake tubes and my problems are gone. So it appears that the pilot fuel supply ports are partially blocked and the air intake tubes are leaning out the idle mixture. My solution to enrich the idle mixture is to reduce air intake. The toothpicks reduce or eliminate air intake, enriching the idle mixture.

If you are thinking this is masking an underlying problem, you are correct but through all the carb cleaning I've done to date, I'm still not getting the fuel flow needed for a proper idle mixture.

Your thoughts?

kmalbee
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Re: 1996 Aspencade misses at low load 2000-3000 RPM

Post by kmalbee » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:17 pm

I'm pretty sure I found my problem, I just couldn't put up with the toothpicks, it's just wrong and I'm not usually one to jury rig a fix. but it did help me ID the problem. I pulled the carbs again and tore them down and decided to measure the pilot jets. The jets in the package marked 65 actually measure the same as the 60s. So instead of getting 2 60s and 2 65s, I ended up with 4 60s in the rebuild kits I got from Wincycles.

So I'm working with them now to hopefully resolve the issue. Looks like I'll need new o rings and bowl gaskets as well. I'm hoping for the best.



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