Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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NOVAwing
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Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500 Aspencade

Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »



Hi everyone!

So I finally had time and weather to tear down to the carbs.

93 Aspencade, stock and mostly original. 90k miles.

Put the bike to sleep in Dec outside with a cover, was leaking coolant somewhere over last fall.

Starting it over the winter, it also developed a new fuel leak.

Purpose here: Find and fix leaks, restore terrible mpgs, assure all cylinders firing.

Also finally changed cruise and sub filters, flat one was fine, other crumbled, both new now.

Found some interesting stuff. Now I need some help.
Issues found below.

Notice all the dirt from the bees nests, found lots more after digging this deep into the bike lol.


Note: I did not drain the coolant, and so far this was not needed.

1) Top right lower airbox hose was not connected. The super pain in the ass to connect hose. What exactly would this affect?

2) There are 2 tiny vac lines that were loose, not connected to anything. They come forward from the right lower area toward the middle of the carbs, see pics. Where do these go? What do they do?

I also see 2 metal nipples pointing diagonal towards each other on the bottom center of the carbs. Are they the home of these 2 vac lines? They will not come close to reaching there. They almost stop right at the back of the carb near the fuel lines, no slack.

3) left carb to intake boot was not clamped to the carb, screw was completely backed out, so that carb was sucking air I bet?

4) The only bad hose I found was the infamous 90 degree one under the rubber mat rear center of area.

5) Fuel leak, all I could see was dripping from center rear of carbs while running. Once carbs removed I see nothing but carb parts and fuel hoses that look fine. See the Pic of the screw. This seems broken! Could this be the fuel leak? What to do about the broken part? Does anyone have advice about what is leaking fuel and how to fix it?

6) Front center of carbs, where 2 coolant lines are, this area is wet and I assume was my coolant leak. The 2 hoses are rough, and where not clamped very tight. How to replace them? They disappear down into the intake I could not see the other ends...

7) Rubber mat under carbs, tried to remove, it tore into pieces with every piece I grabbed and pulled on. Got all of it out except the front area. Need to replace this, looks like a real mother to get a new one back in there, this thing was big, went out each side over the cylinders. Not gonna be fun.

Other hoses look good I think, but what hoses should I replace since I am in here, far as I know bike is all original?

Anything else I need to know?
Do I need new carbs, or rebuilt carbs for fuel leak?

Ready to order all parts, need to figure it out asap, good riding weather is wasting and my brand new 2011 Toyota 4Runner needs a rest lol!

Thanks everyone.
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NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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RockportDave
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Motorcycle: 1999 GL1500 SE
Previous bikes:
1969 Honda CL90 “bobbed” before it was cool
1981 Yamaha 850 Triple w/Windjammer
1981 GL1100 Interstate
1985 GL1200 LTD
1988 GL1500
1988 GL1500

Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by RockportDave »

The first thing I would get is an impact driver, (to remove the screws on the carb top plate and bottom coolant plate. These screws are very tight and I would give them a tap with it when reinstalling them).


A set of long needle nose pliers with bent nose (to re-connect the coolant hoses and the PITA hose on bottom of the front right air cleaner). These can be found at Harbor Freight.
Read this
http://www.jmartino.me/carb/
After 3 times to get to the carbs (1st time I only cleaned the top plate, second installed new o-rings) I finally bought new slow jets, main jets, jet holders, o-rings, idle pilot screw sets and cut slots in them before installing in carbs to ease adjustment ( if you haven’t taken them out yet, be sure to count the turns they are set on). New rubber heat shield (mine came out in pieces also) and new carb isolators (boots to intake). All Honda parts. Also an accelerator pump diaphragm rebuild kit.
I also soaked the carbs in Berrymans carb soak for an hour each to get the grime off and clean the very small passages in the carbs.
When I went back together with them, I made a float gauge and made sure they were set to spec. If they are off too far, it will flood or run too lean, and back to pulling the carbs again.
Check the vacuum pistons for cracks or holes and be sure to get them turned right when reinstalling.
It’s not too expensive or too hard to do this and it’s well worth it to not have to go back in there again.
I think I spent about $300 for all the parts and they can be found on Partzilla or any online Honda parts warehouse.
Be sure to check all the vacuum lines so you don’t have to go back in.
Dave


1999 GL1500SE 5th Goldwing through the years

kane67
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by kane67 »

REPLACE the orange tube(s), looks bad.
#2, could bigger one be breather tube connected to that black plastic T?
Smaller one could be bowl draining tube going under bike. I think the nipples are for bowl draining, you are missing tubes from them, connected together to that tube going under bike?

Can you follow where they go?

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

RockportDave wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:32 pm
The first thing I would get is an impact driver, (to remove the screws on the carb top plate and bottom coolant plate. These screws are very tight and I would give them a tap with it when reinstalling them).
6FB6E951-DACB-4FBE-B25E-A3DF180A5862.png
A set of long needle nose pliers with bent nose (to re-connect the coolant hoses and the PITA hose on bottom of the front right air cleaner). These can be found at Harbor Freight.
Read this
http://www.jmartino.me/carb/
After 3 times to get to the carbs (1st time I only cleaned the top plate, second installed new o-rings) I finally bought new slow jets, main jets, jet holders, o-rings, idle pilot screw sets and cut slots in them before installing in carbs to ease adjustment ( if you haven’t taken them out yet, be sure to count the turns they are set on). New rubber heat shield (mine came out in pieces also) and new carb isolators (boots to intake). All Honda parts. Also an accelerator pump diaphragm rebuild kit.
I also soaked the carbs in Berrymans carb soak for an hour each to get the grime off and clean the very small passages in the carbs.
When I went back together with them, I made a float gauge and made sure they were set to spec. If they are off too far, it will flood or run too lean, and back to pulling the carbs again.
Check the vacuum pistons for cracks or holes and be sure to get them turned right when reinstalling.
It’s not too expensive or too hard to do this and it’s well worth it to not have to go back in there again.
I think I spent about $300 for all the parts and they can be found on Partzilla or any online Honda parts warehouse.
Be sure to check all the vacuum lines so you don’t have to go back in.
Dave
F4A95D02-1E68-47C1-9656-C00669961C69.png
Thanks Dave,

I have and used an impact screwdriver to try to remove one of the lower airbox screws around the left carb. Ended up drilling it out and useing extractor from HF, best tool I EVER bought so far!

I am REALLY looking to avoid touching the carbs for rebuild at this time. As the bike runs fine, minus the vac lines not connected or leaking.
But the broken screw and the fuel leak and coolant leaks have to be fixed.

Do those 2 issues require rebuilding the carb? I am not sure, you didn't really touch on those.
If the carb has to be redone, I am hoping to find the local Honda dealer has an expert, I don't want to mess with it, or do it myself if I can help it. As long as the fee is reasonable, and they don't screw it up lol.

I already got the pliers and long screw drivers from HF before I started this lol.

Thanks for your advice.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

kane67 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:48 am
REPLACE the orange tube(s), looks bad.
#2, could bigger one be breather tube connected to that black plastic T?
Smaller one could be bowl draining tube going under bike. I think the nipples are for bowl draining, you are missing tubes from them, connected together to that tube going under bike?

Can you follow where they go?
Hi Kane,

Orange one I assume you mean the 90 degree one thats notorious for failing, it is torn open and will be replaced. This is the one at the left intake.
Bottom of the carb area is the T clip with the 2 drain hoses that run to bottom of bike, those are fine but will clean them.

Bottom right of pic is 2 small/tiny vac lines, they don't reach the underside center of carb by any means, they were laying there unconnected to anything. This seems wrong, can not see where they go back along right side under frame.....somewhere......

Nipples on bottom center of carb, bowl draining? So these should have some lines on them?

Really need to figure this all out and order parts, want to ride as weather is nice lol.
Was hoping to find only rotten hoses and do a simple swap and put it back together but the fuel leak has me stumped, no idea where its coming out of other then center rear area of carb, without it running in bike, i cant see any evidence of leak, but it was steady dripping while running right in there where the fuel hoses T is.

Thanks for your help.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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bellboy40
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by bellboy40 »

Another thing not mentioned yet is to get the fuel bowl gaskets. That may be the source of your carb leak. I had a fuel leak on my 94 model and that was where it was coming from. That gasket will get compressed flat and won't contain the fuel.

kane67
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by kane67 »

Look this pic (link pic), you’ll see the draining tubes attached to bowles and short tube piece connected to T- connector (next to idle cable) Short tube looks like same as in your pic 2#
https://www.google.com/search?q=gl1500+ ... xcF-zMVnAM



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bellboy40
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by bellboy40 »

The carb drain hoses are connected together with a tee fitting and then one of those lines coming up from the bottom connect to the tee and it goes down under the bike. Here's a picture of how they connect together at the bottom of the carbs. I made this picture when I had the bottom and top plates off the carbs.
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Carb drain hoses
Carb drain hoses


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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

bellboy40 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:27 am
Another thing not mentioned yet is to get the fuel bowl gaskets. That may be the source of your carb leak. I had a fuel leak on my 94 model and that was where it was coming from. That gasket will get compressed flat and won't contain the fuel.
Thanks Bellboy,

I am looking into having the local shop rebuild the carbs for me. Will make sure this is part of that process if I go that route.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

kane67 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:02 am
Look this pic (link pic), you’ll see the draining tubes attached to bowles and short tube piece connected to T- connector (next to idle cable) Short tube looks like same as in your pic 2#
https://www.google.com/search?q=gl1500+ ... xcF-zMVnAM

52333917-69E9-46DA-A38D-7A0CF5E78459.jpeg
Thanks Kane,

Even though I am a mechanic, I always struggle with diagrams, I find them confusing, but I think I see what you mean.

Thanks for this!
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

bellboy40 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:15 pm
The carb drain hoses are connected together with a tee fitting and then one of those lines coming up from the bottom connect to the tee and it goes down under the bike. Here's a picture of how they connect together at the bottom of the carbs. I made this picture when I had the bottom and top plates off the carbs.
Bellboy, my HERO!

That's what I needed to know, just like Kane was saying it looks like!

I had nothing on those 2 nipples. The 2 lines that look like yours, you can see in my pic of my loose hoses that in no way will reach to those nipples in the center bottom of carbs, as you see in one of my pics, that's as far as they go, there is ZERO extra slack. Not sure what is going on there. I can not tell where they go, they disappear down the right side of the bike under the frame into blackness.....

The big plastic T has the 2 large lines that lead to the bottom left of bike with the caps on the ends. That T is located inside the bottom left of the lower airbox. There are no other lines or T coming off those 2 large lines on my bike that I saw.

Looks like im closer to solving this, just have to find the missing hoses and get it all connected again.

Side note: Talked to my local Honda dealer. With carbs off bike says about $200 to rebuild them about 1.5 hours of labor. Then another couple hours to sync them, on the bike only. Total about $400 and 1-2 weeks (due to their work load) Will use my parts, or get them for me. I want OEM, have not checked for availability yet, are they available? Should I provide them parts, or let them get them (takes longer)?

Thanks SO much, you guys ROCK :mrgreen:
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

Has anyone looked at pic #7 in my first post?

What do you all make of this?

It clearly looks broken.
This is in the area of where i saw fuel dripping, could this be the cause?

Do I need a new carb, or a new piece of the carb here?

This has me worried as carb is complex and I am going to the trouble to fix it, it needs to be 110% correct.

Thoughts?

Thanks.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by bellboy40 »

I'm not sure what you are seeing that you think is broken. Can you mark up the picture to indicate where you think the trouble is?

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

bellboy40 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:08 pm
I'm not sure what you are seeing that you think is broken. Can you mark up the picture to indicate where you think the trouble is?
Hi Bellboy,

Zoom in on this Pic, can't miss it.

Totally broken.

Arrow shows where I feel the fuel was dripping from, I could be wrong, it seemed center right of carb looking from back.

I feel the fuel was dripping from the right of this area, not where this screw is, not that it helps much it could have run down at some angle. There is just no evidence of where the fuel was coming from.

The fuel lines look OK, just dirty.
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Last edited by NOVAwing on Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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RockportDave
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1981 GL1100 Interstate
1985 GL1200 LTD
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by RockportDave »

http://www.jmartino.me/carb/images2/pumprod.jpg
The screw looks to be one pointed at in this photo on the right side which hold the accelerator pump to the carb. If it is loose or broken could be where your fuel leak is.
Dave
1999 GL1500SE 5th Goldwing through the years

kane67
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by kane67 »

Screws are holding acc pump to bowl base, should have no access to inside bowl/fuel.
It is just loose, you can see alignment dowel what guides acc pump to correct position (last pic in the link)

Check this Randakk’s Blog.
Pay attention to bowl gasket but also check valve pipe O- rings (2 pcs). I’d suspect leak from there.

http://www.randakksblog.com/honda-gl150 ... p-details/

And accelerator pump itself...
https://www.google.com/search?q=gl1500+ ... Opvk_HlZ3M


Oh, now I see :shock: ... it’s missing a piece. That’s why it looks like loose. Hopefully there’s no crack in bowl cover.

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bellboy40
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by bellboy40 »

It is missing a little bracket that holds the hose there in the picture near it. I don't think that is where it is leaking unless, as kane67 said, there is a crack in the bowl. Here is a picture of mine showing that area and your can see the bracket that goes under the screw and is holding a hose.
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Rear view of carbs
Rear view of carbs


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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

Thanks both of you!

More information:

The screw is tight, not loose. The tab it goes through is broken off at the end.
Yes, I see now there is a hose holder that is also missing......
Thanks for your pics and links both of you!

You are saying there is nothing that can leak from this screw?
Then that means the leak is from somewhere else......the gaskets you mentioned, or cracked bowl.....

I saw no other cracks or obvious signs of trouble, but will have to look again more closely Wednesday when i have a chance to mess with it briefly.

Is this piece replaceable? I have not looked for it yet.
Does a carb rebuild kit include the parts to rebuild this accelerator pump in case it is leaking?

I need to get all this straight before i order parts, or take the carbs to the bike shop to have them rebuild it. I don't want them calling me saying, this is broken we can't rebuild it or some crap. Or worse, them working on it, then telling me its broken and will need replacing, plus paying them for nothing lol.
Never trust a repair shop, any repair shop, I worked for to many car shops........seen it all, the good, honest, smart technician is ultra rare.

This is turning out to be more trouble then I hoped it would be......more time down, and more money.

Lucky me lol.

Thanks for your help guys, look forward to your further feedback.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

kane67
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by kane67 »

For reference, this kit would include all but it says fitting only for models 1988, 1989 and 1990.
Which is correct??

You won't find this available anywhere else. Sourced for the best available parts from 3 continents and combined them in a unique combination that represents real value. Kit is appropriate for any 1988 - 2000 GL1500 with original carbs.


https://www.randakks.com/randakks-own-g ... l-kit.html


Br, kane

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

kane67 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:14 pm
For reference, this kit would include all but it says fitting only for models 1988, 1989 and 1990.
Which is correct??

You won't find this available anywhere else. Sourced for the best available parts from 3 continents and combined them in a unique combination that represents real value. Kit is appropriate for any 1988 - 2000 GL1500 with original carbs.

F8812371-28AE-4B0A-91A1-6AE4B66AAC43.jpeg

https://www.randakks.com/randakks-own-g ... l-kit.html


Br, kane
Thanks Kane,

Appreciate the effort sir!

Tomorrow I am taking the Carbs into the local Honda dealer shop to see their Foreman master carb re-builder to get his advice on what I need to do as far as this broken piece and the fuel leaking, and rebuild kit(s) in general. Hopefully I can get my own parts as they say 1-2 weeks for them to get the parts, then a week or so to rebuild, then put it on bike myself then bring bike in for syncing with another 2 hours labor charge lol.

I would hope I can get the parts myself in a week or less with extra shipping charges.

I will report back after visiting the dealer with their recommendations.

Thanks again everyone!

Can't wait to get Blue Lightening back on the road, after I replace rear tire and rear fluids, once I have bike running again lol.
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

89 1500
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92 Aspencade Cambridge blue

Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by 89 1500 »

Used to be a GL tech selling parts on Ebay a few years back. He had the most complete correct carb kits you could get. I got the kits for my 89 and they had the corrected jets that stopped the low end bog. They had the mixture screws and slide/diaphragms even floats. It was an expensive kit but I was only going in once. Not that it was hard but time consuming jeez. I followed the manual and his additional instructions on turning the mixture screws an extra quarter turn out. Fired and ran great I had to do some minor tweaking when I put my gages on the carbs but they were so close off the bench. Anyway good luck while it's down that far might as well inspect the rest.

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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by minimac »

Just want to say all you guys are amazing. The pics and explaining really help.

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

89 1500 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:28 pm
Used to be a GL tech selling parts on Ebay a few years back. He had the most complete correct carb kits you could get. I got the kits for my 89 and they had the corrected jets that stopped the low end bog. They had the mixture screws and slide/diaphragms even floats. It was an expensive kit but I was only going in once. Not that it was hard but time consuming jeez. I followed the manual and his additional instructions on turning the mixture screws an extra quarter turn out. Fired and ran great I had to do some minor tweaking when I put my gages on the carbs but they were so close off the bench. Anyway good luck while it's down that far might as well inspect the rest.
Hi 89 1500,

Thanks for the advice, will keep in mind as I move forward!
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

minimac wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:10 pm
Just want to say all you guys are amazing. The pics and explaining really help.
Minimac,

You got that right!

The members of this forum are awesome, without them, and this site, I would never have considered buying this older bike because I would be totally lost trying to fix / rebuild it on my own.

Love yall :mrgreen:
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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NOVAwing
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Re: Trouble with carbs and vac lines, pics included

Post by NOVAwing »

Ok,

Some of yall please take a look at this link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-1992-199 ... ctupt=true

This is an example of the "Diaphragm Set" I find on places like Partzilla.
It is about $80 give or take in various listings. The picture makes it seem like the whole assembly.

The question is, is this the entire Accelerator pump, metal housing, gaskets and all?
Or, just the rebuild gaskets?

I have seen dozens of rebuild gasket kits for the accelerator pump for about $25 so I am confused.

I need the whole assembly, metal case and all, to replace my broken one.

Also anyone recommend a place to get the OEM hoses, like fuel and vacuum?
I can't even hardly find them in the diagrams, they barely list any.
I want to replace all lines on the carbs, and some under the rubber mat, which btw that Rubber mat is like $60 on partzilla !

I am about to order what I need to get things moving forward again.

Thanks again everyone!


NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

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