Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga


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NOVAwing
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Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by NOVAwing » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:46 am



So I finally bit the bullet and started the rear tire replacement yesterday.

Boy do I regret it......

What a huge pain in the ass this has become....

Removing the wheel was fine except for the right side muffler shearing off the exhaust collector pipe, and the left muffler being so rusted there is a 2in hole on the tire side of the pipe.

Now I am unhappily waiting on a used exhaust collector box, and matching used stock mufflers all from the same supplier via ebay, $260 later....

Spent an hour trying to beat the collector box off the exhaust manifold unsuccessfully. Now I understand I have to risk further blood, sweat, and sadness to remove the whole right side exhaust manifold to be able to remove and replace the collector box.

This bike makes me sad. I should have saved up $4k and bought a good condition used bike instead of restoring this one. So tired of laying on the ground outside working on this thing in the heat.

Pray for me, and for easy bolt removals lol.

Thanks for listening.


NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

Rodzim
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by Rodzim » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:37 am

Get yourself a little propane torch, it will make your life a lot easier. You dont need to heat the bolts to red hot. Just smoking hot and they should let go easier. Just get something with a narrow flame, to keep from heating unwanted surrounding parts.

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by DenverWinger » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 am

A little late 'cause you've already ordered them, but another source for mufflers is your friendly neighborhood Hardly dealer.

Often they have lots of brand-new "take-off" mufflers because purchasers of new Hardlys think they are too quiet!

I understand the OEM Hardly mufflers sound pretty nice on a 'Wing....
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by Mh434 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:07 pm

I feel for you!! I've done it twice, and both times were huge jobs. For some reason, the "spider" (Honda calls it the "rear flange", between the wheel & hub) always comes loose when trying to remove my rear wheel, and jams between the wheel & hub, making removal or replacement of the wheel impossible.

I have YET to figure out how to avoid that. Last time, it took me two entire days of work to finally free the flange so I could put the wheel back on. :roll:

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by NOVAwing » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:15 pm

Thanks guys.

Anyone seen a how-to on replacing the exhaust collector? I can't find anything on it or the exhaust manifold removal really.

It's all muffler stuff mostly.

Thanks
NOVAwing
1993 GL1500 Aspencade, restored from 4 years rotting outside.

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by Happytrails » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:12 pm

Taking off the manifold wasn't too hard but I broke one of the studs right off. Mine were a little crusty. Waited weeks to get replacement parts. If you take your header off dont forget to order new donuts. :D











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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by ct1500 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Only one of the two headers needs to be removed for the collector (muffler) removal and the right side is easiest to take off. Be sure to heat header nuts with a torch prior to removal or you will likely be replacing broken studs also. Replace the copper gaskets that go between head and header after using pick tool to remove old.

Just for kicks with collector (muffler) removed start it up and see for yourself just how loud it is without that box. ;)
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by CrystalPistol » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:17 pm

DenverWinger wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 am
A little late 'cause you've already ordered them, but another source for mufflers is your friendly neighborhood Hardly dealer.
Often they have lots of brand-new "take-off" mufflers because purchasers of new Hardlys think they are too quiet!
I understand the OEM Hardly mufflers sound pretty nice on a 'Wing....
http://www.northamericangoldwings.com/c ... -mufflers/
Look through that thread above, :roll: good details. 8-)

There are alternatives to the middle chamber as well.
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by NOVAwing » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:08 am

Thanks for all the help everyone!

I got the right exhaust header /manifold off just a few mins ago.

Was actually not that bad. Crash bar is in the way, but removing 2 lower bolts on it let's it wiggle enough to get the header around it. Bolts were not rusty at all and barely tight on the header.

The main issues are :
Front bolt for cover shield. Need tiny 8mm open end wrench and lots of wrenching to avoid removing more parts.
Header bolts will require 1/4 socket wrench with flex adapter and 10m socket. Some are tight next to the pipes and crash bar etc. 3/8 socket had no chance fitting, and open end wrench would fit all but 1 nut, but little room to turn the wrench. 1/4 socket for the win.

Once I pried the header down while pulling the crash bar it slipped past and the header fell off, followed by the exhaust collector box falling out, YAAAY!

Now just waiting on parts to arrive to put my new used mufflers and exhaust collector box back on, followed by the newly mounted tire, then fill the final drive with new gear oil.

Also got $70 worth of bolts nuts etc coming from Partzilla to replace rusted stuff on the bottom with this job. Looks like I may have ordered some wrong bolts, we will see. Those diagrams are **** and very hard to make out what goes where......

Will report more once I get it back together. Enjoy some pics while you wait. :D
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by tsandvik » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:00 am

What exactly is the use of the collector box? Am at the point of putting the exhaust system back on after a frame up (with engine replacement) restoration. Toying with the idea of putting in a straight connector from the header to the muffler. Collector used to produce back pressure? Part of muffling system? I have never heard why this piece is included on the Goldwings.

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by Happytrails » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:16 am

Its just a guess but I'd think it might be to equalize the backpressure.
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by tsandvik » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:56 am

Equalizing back pressure was my original guess until I was at a custom Harley shop getting tire mounted. There was a trike there that had a GL1500 engine with 6 straight pipes. Pretty awesome sound output and told by mechanic that the motor pulled like a "mother". No back pressure did not seem to effect the engine performance. It is just one more thing that I would not mind stripping off bike if not absolutely needed. A bit of an increase in exhaust sound would not bother me.

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by DenverWinger » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:12 am

Just an observation - My GL1000 had a collector box in the exhaust system, but the 1100 only has a crossover tube between the two sides. I had them both a couple yrs until selling the 1000. This is stock on both.

While both bikes were "Goldwing Quiet", the 1000 had a considerably more "mellow" exhaust tone than the 1100 which sounded "harsh" in comparison. And the 1000 was noticeably quieter.

And where the 4 cyl wings firing sequence is to fire both cylinders on one side, then the two on the other side the collector box or crossover tube likely helps with back pressure. Not so much on the 6 cyl wings where each consecutive cylinder firing is on the opposite side (one on left side, next on right side, next on left side, etc.)

So without the collector box I wouldn't really expect any change in engine performance, but you'll likely have a somewhat louder, harsher exhaust tone.

Before you put all your "new" parts on, just for fun, fire it up with just the headers on, it will be a rather noisy machine!
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by ct1500 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:59 pm

tsandvik wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:00 am
What exactly is the use of the collector box? Am at the point of putting the exhaust system back on after a frame up (with engine replacement) restoration. Toying with the idea of putting in a straight connector from the header to the muffler. Collector used to produce back pressure? Part of muffling system? I have never heard why this piece is included on the Goldwings.
The box is the major sound reducing device of the exhaust. It is a muffler and the tailpipes are resonators. When the so called mufflers (tailpipes) are removed there is a slightly louder exhaust sound with engine running, when collector (muffler) removed your running open headers with the resulting deafening noise.
When Japan has manuals made into different languages translations can get hacked IMO, hence the confusion.

Currently out of stock.
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by NOVAwing » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:38 pm

Hi all,

UPS ground from Washington to VA is sloooow
Still no parts yet.

Especially when the seller was listed in Idaho...

Ct1500 is correct.

The collector is the muffler. Without it the bike is much louder, and has less back pressure. This increases rev speed but lowers low end torque.

I saw that UK collector when I was shopping but direct from them and it was $400-600. Some other places reselling I also. It's the same thing as stock with less sound dampening and less weight, increases sound loudness some.

Bottom line, if you like louder, or loud ditch the exhaust collector muffler. If you like quiet, keep it or something very close to it.

Then the resonators, or mufflers as we call them will also increase sound when changed from stock.

I plan to later switch to Mac megaphone and see if it's acceptable. I like some cool sound, but not a lot, over the whole loud sports car sound in general. The Wing is not a sexy sounding engine at all lol.

Just need to budget those at $300 +/-


Will report again once parts are here.
Last edited by NOVAwing on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by CrystalPistol » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:19 pm

If you had a huge auditorium with two in doors, and two out doors, and people were coming in in a orderly fashion filling the auditorium, the excess would find their way out the two out doors.

I cut one open, there is nothing in the middle chamber except space. It lets exhaust gasses from both headers into the chamber to mingle and then get pushed out the path of least resistance, one or both exits to mufflers. It does let exhaust mingle into one big pressure blob and as a result it does quieten the exhaust, there are no baffles, no nothing … just two ins and two outs.

I tried it on the bike in place of extractor once, did not like it, went back to extractor, and soon …. I cut it open.

I like the purr, think of a flat 6 Porsche Boxer …. and I feel a little better throttle response in mid range with the extractor. It is a little louder, even with GL mufflers hanging on. VrooooooOoooooOoooooooM


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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by NOVAwing » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:22 pm

Hey guys,

First off, **** this bike lol.

I'm tempted to sell it.... Everything is a pain in the ass!

Snapped the front most exhaust stud tightening it, **** it let it ride for now.

Left side muffler (silencer) will not go on all the way with new gaskets. It is just about 1/4 in short from aligning with the rear mounting bolt under the saddlebag. I have tried everything and beat on iytfor an hour+.

Without the braided gasket it goes on all the way np, no matter what I do it won't go all the way with the gasket in.

About to give up, it's Hella hot today and for the next 4 days 90 degrees plus. I have a bike wash event Saturday.....

Those who asked about inside the collector.

My bike is 93, replacement collector and silencers from an 89 off ebay. The collector has a pipe inside, it looks just like that UK aftermarket collector with a big box around it. Looking in the exit end you can see the pipe from the header that curves toward the back of the box.

It is Not empyt inside, if your is, I bet it rusted apart and went into your silencers.

Also my old silencers and the much nicer used ones I got are all full of debris inside. Shake it to get maybe half out but won't all come out.

Anyone got a trick to get this silencer all the way on before I light this thing on fire and walk away lol?

Joking, but need help please.
NOVAwing
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by NOVAwing » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:12 pm

Update :

After more sweating, swearing, and hammering, I finally got both silencers bolted in and clamped down.

Started her up, of course the right header smoked a lot from my gloved greasy hands, forgot to clean it off lol.

Sounds basically the same as before I started all this, maybe a tiny bit quieter. The broken front right header stud doesn't seem to be an issue. I will order new stud and nut for later maintenance.

New tire looks great, brake works still, all seems good now. Once I physically recover and get more time I will finish putting the lower exhaust covers, rear plate plastic, saddlebags, and front lower chrome cover back on lol.

Then lastly my new front rotor covers.

Thanks for reading!
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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by Rambozo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:21 am

I feel for you. Old crusty exhaust can be a nightmare. I really try to avoid touching it, unless it's all coming off for replacement. Studs break, rust everywhere, flimsy materials that don't like to be handled, much less beat on. When I did my tire, I pulled the shock bolts so I could move the swingarm enough to get the axle bolt out without touching the exhaust. While I'm sure my exhaust has issues, It's not something I want to tackle until I absolutely have to, and then I will plan on everything new, even if I have to make it myself.

I'm glad you got it all sorted out in the end. Kinda sucks that it sounds pretty much the same after all that work. Just goes to show how good the Honda exhaust is, even half rotted away it still works pretty damn good.

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Re: Dreaded rear tire replacement, the exhaust saga

Post by 754 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:15 am

I know I'm a little late here but, I have to say a wing with no mufflers but has the chamber intact does not sound bad. The original owner of my wing pulled the mufflers when it was new in 92 and put straight pipes on it. Fast forward to me it still has them on it and it sounds pretty good. You can definitely hear all the little sounds coming from that engine.


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