Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?


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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »



Not sure how warning people they are about to invalidate their insurance is in any way dangerous. It is certainly not as dangerous as fitting a car tyre to a motorcycle But I tell you what. Write to your insurance company and explain that you have fitted a motorcar tyre to your motorcycle, an act which is specifically prohibited by your motorcycle manufacturer and the tyre manufacturer because they consider it dangerous and will make your motorcycle unroadworthy. Ask the insurance company to confirm that this is in keeping with the policy they have provided and that you are still fully covered by their insurance. Scan the reply and post it here.


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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by ekvh »

Prohibited is not the same as not recommended. Nowhere does Honda prohibit it

Warning that it could cause injury or death is really no different than the warnings associated with riding a motorcycle with a std motorcycle tire.

At this point there are no known reports of a car tire causing an injury or death or accident as a result of the car tire. On the other hand there are numerous reports of accidents, injuries, and death from motorcycle tire failures. Sometimes from neglect, not keeping air pressure, not noticing you’re riding on cords. Sometimes from debris in the road. Sixty mph and there’s a sharp object in the road. Which do you prefer?

I have one and when it wears out, I will go back to a quality motorcycle tire. I might die of old age first. I do feel that mine can make some slight unexpected movements at low speeds on uneven ground. Never dumped it and always have been able to correct it easily. On gravel roads, it seems to be more stable, don’t ask me how, but it does.

The different profile where it meets the rim can be remedied easily.

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by WingAdmin »

brettchallenger wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:11 am
Irrespective of the advantageous claims made about using a car tyre on a motorcycle, this should not be done. I understand fully that the United States has a much more relaxed approach to road safety than in the UK, which may account in part, for the 75% greater number fatalities per 100,000 population in the US compared with the UK. In the UK, a motorcycle fitted with a car tyre will fail its annual (for want of a better phrase) road worthiness test, thus making the machine illegal to operate on public roads and so such practise here is rare – though no doubt does occur. Moreover, there are very good reasons for not putting a car tyre on a motorcycle – and I am referring here specifically to two wheel motorcycles not “trikes”.

There isn’t a single tyre manufacturer which advises a car tyre can be put on a motorcycle. Some, when asked, have made statements to this effect.

Honda’s Goldwing owner's manual (GL1500) states: “The use of tyres other than those listed on the tyre information label may adversely affect handling. Any attempt to mount passenger car tyres on a motorcycle rim may cause the tyre bead to separate from the rim with enough explosive force to cause serious injury or death”.

Cars have complex steering, damping and differential gearing which places very different stresses on a tyre. Motorcycles lean into corners. You may have noticed that car tyres and motorcycle tyres have very different profiles – there is a reason for this.

Finally, in which ever country you live, putting a car tyre on a motorcycle rim or indeed, fitting a car wheel rim to a motorcycle, will invalidate your insurance. In most territories this is illegal, and in case of an accident may lead to penury.
Most of this is completely untrue. This specific question has been asked (and published) of MANY insurance companies, with the same response EVERY time: "If it's DOT certified, then it's fine with us." It's not illegal, quite simply there are no regulations regarding use of car tires on motorcycles at all.

I continually hear people talk about all of these dire predictions of bead separation, sidewall failures, all the horrible things that will occur if you run a car tire on a bike. These are almost universally predicted by those who have never tried using a car tire.

You know what I have never heard of? On any forum, bike shop, anywhere at all? For over ten years? A single report, even just ONE, of a car tire mounted on a bike failing this way, or being cited as the cause of an accident. Not a single report. I've heard LOTS of reports of bike tires failing (Metzeler, for instance, is well documented). But you would think, that if car tires were failing left right and center like predicted by naysayers, that you'd be reading about it. Instead, the opposite is true - you NEVER hear about it.

In fact, the opposite is true: people running car tires report increased traction, vastly increased mileage, better puncture resistance, and all-round safe tire behavior. I've been running an Austone Taxi Tire on my 1500 for two years now, and my own experiences reflect exactly this. The handling is not adversely affected, dry traction is definitely increased, wet traction is VASTLY increased, and tire wear is extremely minimal. The only real difference I find is a slightly increased tendency to wander when riding over grates (i.e. metal bridges).

So...it's not illegal, it doesn't violate insurance rules, it doesn't fail unexpectedly, it lasts much longer, gives better traction....what exactly are the downsides?

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

Most of this is completely untrue. This specific question has been asked (and published) of MANY insurance companies
links? Copies of letters? Articles from magazines etc?

By the way, I never said that the tyre fitment was illegal, but that riding a machine uninsured or having failed a road worthiness test was illegal - in most territories.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by Wingsconsin »

Not worth the time nor energy to work through this debate -
The internet at large has myriad and major amounts of information on this subject -
From those who have tried it -
Some have proven it works (for them) and others just believe what they feel
Laws are different in many STATES and I suspect even more so in different countries -
Try it - research it - or not --
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by AZgl1800 »

my lot is six acres of grass, and the ground is usually damp from more or less consistent rains thru the winter and spring months up to about July.

my 1800 with a M/C tire does not like leaving the paved driveway.

With the Car Tire on the rear, I consistently run around my property free as you please.
No rutting, no threat of the rear tire spinning out in water puddles. It just goes like as if on the highway.

To all who have Never, Ever, rode with a Car Tire, I wish the hell you would just shut up.
Your opinions are not warranted.

I have talked with 3 insurance agents on the matter of a car tire on my bike.
Every one of them replied, "well, it is a tire, right? we don't care."
~John

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

Not worth the time nor energy to work through this debate -
The internet at large has myriad and major amounts of information on this subject -
From those who have tried it -
Yet no links.

My challenge stands. Inform your insurance company that you have a tyre fitted to your machine which both the motorcycle manufacturer and the tyre manufacturer says is unsuitable, and ask for confirmation that you are still fully insured - then copy that here. Alternately, write to either Honda or the car tyre manufacturer and ask them if they will endorse the fitment.

The arguments I have read so far come down to- lots of riders do this, there have been no accidents etc so it must be ok. But I have still to see proof or even any evidence, that insurers will approve, that tyre manufacturers will approve or that motorcycle manufacturers will approve of a car tyre being fitted to a motorcycle.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by Wingsconsin »

brettchallenger wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:48 pm
Not worth the time nor energy to work through this debate -
The internet at large has myriad and major amounts of information on this subject -
From those who have tried it -
Yet no links.

My challenge stands. Inform your insurance company that you have a tyre fitted to your machine which both the motorcycle manufacturer and the tyre manufacturer says is unsuitable, and ask for confirmation that you are still fully insured - then copy that here. Alternately, write to either Honda or the car tyre manufacturer and ask them if they will endorse the fitment.

The arguments I have read so far come down to- lots of riders do this, there have been no accidents etc so it must be ok. But I have still to see proof or even any evidence, that insurers will approve, that tyre manufacturers will approve or that motorcycle manufacturers will approve of a car tyre being fitted to a motorcycle.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by AZgl1800 »

brettchallenger wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:48 pm
Yet no links.

My challenge stands. Inform your insurance company that you have a tyre fitted to your machine which both the motorcycle manufacturer and the tyre manufacturer says is unsuitable, and ask for confirmation that you are still fully insured - then copy that here. Alternately, write to either Honda or the car tyre manufacturer and ask them if they will endorse the fitment.

The arguments I have read so far come down to- lots of riders do this, there have been no accidents etc so it must be ok. But I have still to see proof or even any evidence, that insurers will approve, that tyre manufacturers will approve or that motorcycle manufacturers will approve of a car tyre being fitted to a motorcycle.
your opinion on this is useless, we are NOT going to mess with asking if someone will approve it.
Politics proves it is impossible to win that kind of argument.
You are stating UK law, and most of the users here are in North America....
I don't give two hoots in hell how Eurasia wants to do things.

In the USA, no one cares period..... Harley Davidsons have been sold in the showrooms with Car Tires on the rear of them.... back off on this.
~John

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2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

your opinion on this is useless, we are NOT going to mess with asking if someone will approve it.
Your response to this clearly indicates that you are unable to provide any proof to win your argument, preferring to offer mild insult. You clearly regard someone having an opinion which differs from yours as "useless". I note the collective, "we"; do you speak on behalf of everyone else? On the other hand, I have made direct quotes from a publication of the Honda Motor Company. I am also sure that I can find information from major tyre manufacturers with regard to this matter.

I wish you well.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by CrystalPistol »

brettchallenger wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:11 am
Irrespective of the advantageous claims made about using a car tyre on a motorcycle, this should not be done. I understand fully that the United States has a much more relaxed approach to road safety than in the UK, … etc …
But y'all drive / ride on the wrong side of the road … :lol: … so there you go. 8-)
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
:)

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

But y'all drive / ride on the wrong side of the road

Sir, we are not French!
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by ekvh »


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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by Wingsconsin »

ekvh wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:57 pm
Meanwhile:

https://www.legalreader.com/investigati ... N7RowCGLkI
BUT --
That is a MOTORCYCLE TIRE -- ??

LOL
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by kwthom »

The investigation suggested that poor factory quality control, overloaded bikes and under inflated original-equipment tires causes accidents. :roll:
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

This is a screenshot of a letter from Avon Tyres, part of Cooper Tire and Rubber Co. Austone Tyres were a brand owned by Cooper Tires until recently (although the brand is now part of Prinx-Chengsan of China). Austone was of course, a very popular car tyre used by Goldwing owners. The letter is self explanatory but I will highlight some of what the company has to say.

"We do not recommend fitting car tyres to motorcycles"
"Fitting a car tyre will have the following effects...........void insurance".
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

BUT --
That is a MOTORCYCLE TIRE -- ??
Using this somewhat warped logic, you would also fit a car tyre to your front motorcycle wheel.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by Wingsconsin »

brettchallenger wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:27 pm
This is a screenshot of a letter from Avon Tyres, part of Cooper Tire and Rubber Co. Austone Tyres were a brand owned by Cooper Tires until recently (although the brand is now part of Prinx-Chengsan of China). Austone was of course, a very popular car tyre used by Goldwing owners. The letter is self explanatory but I will highlight some of what the company has to say.

"We do not recommend fitting car tyres to motorcycles"
"Fitting a car tyre will have the following effects...........void insurance".
brettchallenger wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:52 pm
BUT --
That is a MOTORCYCLE TIRE -- ??
Using this somewhat warped logic, you would also fit a car tyre to your front motorcycle wheel.
You win - You are correct - Your opinion is the only correct one - I am glad you stand by your convictions so strongly
Congratulations - You have won the argument for agreements sake - You are now the King of the internet!
Your e-p@nis is probably quite large -
We are sufficiently beaten down by your omnipresence -
Please only purchase Honda Oil - remove the trailer hitch from your motorcycle if you have one
Any secondary market items not OEM should be removed and returned to stock (grips, highway pegs, aftermarket windscreens, seats, backrests, et. al.)
Enjoy the view

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

Wingsconsin, I am here to help.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by ekvh »

How does a tire maker void someone’s insurance?? If and when it happens that someone’s insurance is voided, it will be defeated because of two reasons: 1. No evidence of failures.
2. No testing by tire makers or insurance providers of governmental agencies to prove or disprove the theory.

If things continue the way they are, motorcycle tire makers will accommodate by switching over.

If you’ve ever traveled to third world countries where the motor is the main conveyance of the masses, especially ones utilizing types of sidecars, you will see they have been using car tires for a long, long time.

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by 5m0k3y »

Ill just leave this here. Solved this years ago.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by CrystalPistol »

kwthom wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:02 pm
The investigation suggested that poor factory quality control, overloaded bikes and under inflated original-equipment tires causes accidents. :roll:
I expect a lot of that overloaded & underinflated are directly related to lack of inspection by the owner … and simply trying to get that last mile of wear out of the chords … after the rubber is gone.
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
:)

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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

How does a tire maker void someone’s insurance??
It doesn't.
If things continue the way they are, motorcycle tire makers will accommodate by switching over.
Switch over to what, making handlebars out of spaghetti?
If you’ve ever traveled to third world countries where the motor is the main conveyance of the masses, especially ones utilizing types of sidecars, you will see they have been using car tires for a long, long time.
I have spent a lot of time in the former colonies - few are better for freedom and independence. I have to say that I didn't see any Honda Goldwings in Malawi, didn't see many roads come to think of it. I certainly didn't see any motorcar tyres mounted to the ubiquitous small capacity motorycles which abound there. I did see a sidecar (I use the word loosely) with a wooden wheel.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by brettchallenger »

Interesting ... What say you Sire ? aka King Brett.
This, or something similar is all I was asking for. However, the document is 11 years old and presumably relates to a machine no longer owned by 5m0k3y, judging by his list of current motorcycles. If you wish, I will draft a letter for you to send to your own insurance provider so you too may bathe in the warm comfort of knowing you are in fact fully insured. Or, a more likely scenario, be informed that as you have modified your motorcycle using critical parts not designed to fit on a motorcycle, that your insurance is in fact void.

PS, the correct form of address to a king is "Your Majesty" and not "sire". Personally I prefer, "His Imperial Majesty" - sort of trips off the tongue. I do very much hope that you are standing upright as you type.
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Re: Darkside: No Taxi Tire...now what?

Post by 5m0k3y »

It is in fact still in effect and I have no motorcycles other than an ATV and 3 mini bikes I ride with my kids. Sold all my big bikes to help purchase my new house. I dark sided my GL 1500 before it was sold and the custom old school chopper I am building in the shop will also have a car tire. I am currently in the process of finding a DOT trailer tire that will fit my Monster moto mini bike so I can license it to prove people wrong in my town. The only thing I am missing is the dot tire. it has turn signals headlights and tail lights and tops out at about 55 miles per hour at the moment.
I have a future plans to do the ATV tire swap on a Yamaha tw200, and hopefully will have my YouTube channel up and operational by mid-summer. This all relies on my lawn mowing service getting a little more business this year due to the fact that my full-time position has been cut back to 30 hours at my nine-to-five job. If that's not enough I have three antique lawn mowers in mid restoration which is something I do with my son and a side for my lawn business. Oh, and I still need to make time to get the kids out in the boat and camper this year, because after buying the new house we were never able to make time to get them out last year.

I did verify that this was in effect when I dark sided my Goldwing. So now what I want to see from all the naysayers are letters from they are insurance companies specifically stating that they will in no way cover a motorcycle that has had a better tire put on it in regards to weight and towing for these big bikes. As we can see what happens with weight and towing on a standard motorcycle tire everytime one blows out, which by the way has never happened on a car tire for me.
My 2cents
Please forgive any grammatical errors this was voice typed on my cell phone.

I have to go now, I need to run out back and make sure the tire swing is tree rated so my insurance company will cover it.



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