Dead Wing


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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roadhawg
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Dead Wing

Post by roadhawg » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:21 pm



Went to start my 1500, turned the key on and everything was good, lights came on then I hit the starter button and it clicked and everything went dead. The Battery is fully charged, the main fuse link is good. I have removed the battery and battery box and checked the wiring to see if there is a break or loose connection, but have found nothing. I tested the starter relay and it failed. My question to ALL is; will a bad relay cause the entire electrical system to go dark?



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ct1500
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by ct1500 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:49 pm

No, a malfunctioning relay A will not cause complete loss of power. On the battery (+) side of that relay is where a 30A fuse gets power from and that connection could cause all loss of power. What relay was tested with the how and what failed exactly?
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roadhawg
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by roadhawg » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:13 pm

I didn't think a bad relay could possibly cause this kind of issue either, but thought I would rely on the experience of other 'wing owners. The Relay failed in my first continuity test, but I conducted it again later and found that there was continuity. To test it I connected jumper wires to the 2 terminals on the relay switch and then connected an ohmmeter to the terminals on the relay. What I have found though is that the harness connector for the relay has been hot enough that I had to use channel locks to pull it apart and think it will need to be replaced. Have checked the 30 amp fuse that is part of the connector and it isn't blown either.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:04 pm

Often when you hit the starter and everything goes dead, the problem is a bad connection on a battery cable - either on the terminal connecting it to the battery, the battery ground cable connection to ground, or inside one of the battery cables itself.

The connection or cable can be good enough to pass enough current to light all the lights and so on, but as soon as you hit the starter, that sudden inrush of hundreds of amps to the starter causes the iffy connection to open, and now no power gets through at all. Sometimes wiggling battery wires can get power restored, but that is a temporary fix at best.

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4given
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by 4given » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:16 am

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:04 pm
Often when you hit the starter and everything goes dead, the problem is a bad connection on a battery cable - either on the terminal connecting it to the battery, the battery ground cable connection to ground, or inside one of the battery cables itself.

The connection or cable can be good enough to pass enough current to light all the lights and so on, but as soon as you hit the starter, that sudden inrush of hundreds of amps to the starter causes the iffy connection to open, and now no power gets through at all. Sometimes wiggling battery wires can get power restored, but that is a temporary fix at best.
That just happened to me a few weeks ago. Turned out to be a loose ground connection at the battery.

roadhawg
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Re: '93 Wing

Post by roadhawg » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:58 pm

I have checked all of the ground connections even removing some of the faring and checking and taking apart and retightening the two main ground connections (1) on the engine and (1) on the frame, still nothing. I figured out that there are actually 2 Starter relays I performed a test to see if it would switch on and found that it will not, which leads me to assume it is bad. My brother has a late 90's ATV which he said had the same problem and after a lot of diagnosing found it to be a bad starter relay. Makes no sense that a relay would control all of the current. Unless someone knows of something different I guess I will buy a relay.

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ct1500
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by ct1500 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:02 pm

roadhawg wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:13 pm
I didn't think a bad relay could possibly cause this kind of issue either, Have checked the 30 amp fuse that is part of the connector and it isn't blown either.
No blown fuse is not a valid test, the wiring for and around that 30A fuse holder which feeds the ignition switch has been known for heating and melting which can cause problems. Probe the red wire for voltage after the fuse.
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CrystalPistol
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by CrystalPistol » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm

I have seen battery terminal connections fail suddenly under high amp draws internally, where you can't fix without getting another.


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Re: Dead Wing

Post by WingAdmin » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:14 pm

CrystalPistol wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm
I have seen battery terminal connections fail suddenly under high amp draws internally, where you can't fix without getting another.
I have as well, but usually only after the battery has been abused physically (i.e. horrendously bumpy road causing multiple hard physical shocks to it).

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Triple X
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by Triple X » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:18 am

I had the same issue with my 08. Turned out that one of my connectors for main ground on the bike had melted causing sporadic dead bike. Ran a seperate ground for my wing and it hasn't happened since.

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newday777
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by newday777 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:47 am

roadhawg wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:21 pm
Went to start my 1500, turned the key on and everything was good, lights came on then I hit the starter button and it clicked and everything went dead. The Battery is fully charged, the main fuse link is good. I have removed the battery and battery box and checked the wiring to see if there is a break or loose connection, but have found nothing. I tested the starter relay and it failed. My question to ALL is; will a bad relay cause the entire electrical system to go dark?

I went to a memorial service for a CMA member and upon leaving, a friend on his 1800 trike, had the same problem. They had ridden to the service fine but went to start and click, all went dead.
I had a tool bag with me, and a multimeter. It was a brand new battery that a shop had just put in for him, full 12.6 charge on it.
I checked the bolts for tightness with a Philips screwdriver, yes the bolts were tight. I had Bob hit the starter button to test volts as start button is pushed. Click.
But..... There was an arch spark. At the battery bolt on the negative. Apparently the tech put on longer bolts for the multiple leads attached to the positive post, the negative though had less added leads. The longer bolt bottomed out on the back of the battery post, which made the bolt tight. But, the negative cable was not fully tight. Thus the arch and loss of power.
Have you grabbed the battery cables and made sure they are tight at the battery?
I dug through my bag and found a shorter battery bolt and vrrrm off they went. It can be that simple....or not.
Last edited by newday777 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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newday777
Posts: 1548
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1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Dead Wing

Post by newday777 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:03 am

If your battery cables are tight, there are 2 orange ground distribution blocks on the 1500s that could have burnt pins and loss of ground to circuits.
There is one on each side of the bike, wrapped with electrical tape in the harness, against the frame about knee level as you sit on the bike. I have found burnt pins in some of these D blocks. The culprit is usually added accessories tapped into the bike harness rather than using a relay powered accessory fuse panel and an added ground lead for all accessories added to be used so there is no added power drawn through the bike harness, which the ground wires at the orange D blocks are woefully small. They power the minimal lights original on the bike but not the tons of added lights and accessories that are commonplace on these wings.
Some people assume the ground is not going to be a problem adding accessories and hooking into the bike ground wires rather than running a new ground wire from the battery just for accessories. Power does go through the ground wires. Too many amps run through small ground wires will cause problems eventually.
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Michael18650
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by Michael18650 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 am

I had the same problem when I had my 1988 GL1500 many years ago. Got off the highway to take a break, when I got back on and pressed the start button all I got was a click, after that nothing. There was time that YUASA had a bunch of bad batteries. One of the lead plates inside the battery case would short rendering it useless. YUASA never admitted it and blamed us for improper maintenance. I did see that he said the battery was fully charged, mine was to. Since you have a multi meter, I suggest that you measure the voltage on the battery, it will most likely measure 12.4 to 13.4 volts dc. Press the start button and measure the voltage while the start button is being pressed. It will probably go to 4 volts or something very low. It should only drop to 12.0 volts or so, not into the single numbers. If this is the case then the battery itself is bad. It can not be recharged or fixed. A new one must be installed. I am not saying that this will fix the problem, but I hope it helps. :)

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Wildwilly018
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by Wildwilly018 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:01 pm

Maybe this won't help, but yrs ago my 88 gl1500 started acting up. Things started disappearing on my dash, music quit etc. Then it would just die right there. Right in a left turn lane once. I tried restarting but nothing. Out of desperation because of where I was stuck i kept trying and it fired and I headed for home. It had done this a few times so I was going to dig into this. I finally found it. The starter regulator, to right of battery, boot on top wasn't keeping connection. It was popping up and off. I got it plugged back in right and made sure everything worked again and zip tied it together. I did let it run awhile again before tying it down and it did it again. No more problem after tied down. I maybe should have replace thte plug, but issue was solved redneck style. Might not be problem or has already been checked, but my 5 cents since there are no more pennies in Canada and 2 cents doesn't work any more lol. Hope this problem gets rectified.

roadhawg
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: Zebulon, NC
Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500A Aspencade

Re: Dead Wing

Post by roadhawg » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:21 am

newday777 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:03 am
If your battery cables are tight, there are 2 orange ground distribution blocks on the 1500s that could have burnt pins and loss of ground to circuits.
There is one on each side of the bike, wrapped with electrical tape in the harness, against the frame about knee level as you sit on the bike. I have found burnt pins in some of these D blocks. The culprit is usually added accessories tapped into the bike harness rather than using a relay powered accessory fuse panel and an added ground lead for all accessories added to be used so there is no added power drawn through the bike harness, which the ground wires at the orange D blocks are woefully small. They power the minimal lights original on the bike but not the tons of added lights and accessories that are commonplace on these wings.
Some people assume the ground is not going to be a problem adding accessories and hooking into the bike ground wires rather than running a new ground wire from the battery just for accessories. Power does go through the ground wires. Too many amps run through small ground wires will cause problems eventually.
All cables and connections are tight. I will check out the D blocks that you mentioned that sounds like a good possibility. Thanks

roadhawg
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by roadhawg » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:28 am

Michael18650 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 am
I had the same problem when I had my 1988 GL1500 many years ago. Got off the highway to take a break, when I got back on and pressed the start button all I got was a click, after that nothing. There was time that YUASA had a bunch of bad batteries. One of the lead plates inside the battery case would short rendering it useless. YUASA never admitted it and blamed us for improper maintenance. I did see that he said the battery was fully charged, mine was to. Since you have a multi meter, I suggest that you measure the voltage on the battery, it will most likely measure 12.4 to 13.4 volts dc. Press the start button and measure the voltage while the start button is being pressed. It will probably go to 4 volts or something very low. It should only drop to 12.0 volts or so, not into the single numbers. If this is the case then the battery itself is bad. It can not be recharged or fixed. A new one must be installed. I am not saying that this will fix the problem, but I hope it helps. :)
This is a good possibility, I have been doing some testing on circuits and have found that while I do not get any clicking noise, which I would expect if it was low voltage, that my test light will dim and when I put it on the red lead on the solenoid next to the battery and press the start button. So, I will check this out thanks for the heads up.

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newday777
Posts: 1548
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:21 pm
Location: Milford NH summer/fall & Oceanside, CA winters(N San Diego) with lots of miles riden between
Motorcycle: 2008 Cabernet Red. Level 4

1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Dead Wing

Post by newday777 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:38 am

roadhawg wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:28 am
Michael18650 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 am
I had the same problem when I had my 1988 GL1500 many years ago. Got off the highway to take a break, when I got back on and pressed the start button all I got was a click, after that nothing. There was time that YUASA had a bunch of bad batteries. One of the lead plates inside the battery case would short rendering it useless. YUASA never admitted it and blamed us for improper maintenance. I did see that he said the battery was fully charged, mine was to. Since you have a multi meter, I suggest that you measure the voltage on the battery, it will most likely measure 12.4 to 13.4 volts dc. Press the start button and measure the voltage while the start button is being pressed. It will probably go to 4 volts or something very low. It should only drop to 12.0 volts or so, not into the single numbers. If this is the case then the battery itself is bad. It can not be recharged or fixed. A new one must be installed. I am not saying that this will fix the problem, but I hope it helps. :)
This is a good possibility, I have been doing some testing on circuits and have found that while I do not get any clicking noise, which I would expect if it was low voltage, that my test light will dim and when I put it on the red lead on the solenoid next to the battery and press the start button. So, I will check this out thanks for the heads up.
This is why a Load Test is important to be done on batteries with this type of situations. Auto parts stores and bike shops will usually charge and load test your battery for free.

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Wildwilly018
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by Wildwilly018 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:04 am

In my post I said regulator. I meant solenoid beside battery. Hope you figure it out.

roadhawg
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Re: Dead Wing

Post by roadhawg » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:03 am

Wildwilly018 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:01 pm
Maybe this won't help, but yrs ago my 88 gl1500 started acting up. Things started disappearing on my dash, music quit etc. Then it would just die right there. Right in a left turn lane once. I tried restarting but nothing. Out of desperation because of where I was stuck i kept trying and it fired and I headed for home. It had done this a few times so I was going to dig into this. I finally found it. The starter regulator, to right of battery, boot on top wasn't keeping connection. It was popping up and off. I got it plugged back in right and made sure everything worked again and zip tied it together. I did let it run awhile again before tying it down and it did it again. No more problem after tied down. I maybe should have replace thte plug, but issue was solved redneck style. Might not be problem or has already been checked, but my 5 cents since there are no more pennies in Canada and 2 cents doesn't work any more lol. Hope this problem gets rectified.
Yes, I assumed you were referring to the solenoid. As I stated in my post or maybe it was my first reply, I have gone through and tested that solenoid and have tested the connector to it. The connector has been hot which causes me some concern but when testing it with a light and multi-meter it seem to have good connection. I am still checking things out when I get the time, with all the extra work this pandemic has caused at my employment time to work on it is in short supply. I appreciate all of the ideas and suggestions all of you are offering, keep them coming and hopefully I will be able to straddle the bike for a ride soon.



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