1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...


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hotrodpearl
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1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »



I have an unusual problem, and can find no one else when searching who has had the same issue. I recently brought home a 1996 GL 1500A which had been sitting a couple years. After doing a carb and fuel tank flush and rotating the motor several times to make sure there was no interference I started it and it runs real nice but I have found one unusual situation because when I went to turn it off with the key it keeps running as normal but I can shut it off with the Killswitch. I contacted the PO and he stated that he had the ignition switch replaced by a mechanic and it behaved that way since the switch was replaced and the mechanic assured him that was an updated feature of the new ignition switch ...........??? After much arguing with the mechanic the PO just accepted the fact that it wasn’t correct but rode it that way for several years. The ignition switch acts normal when the bike is not running, off, accessory, on etc . The mechanic obviously messed something up or put the wrong ignition switch in. It seems when it is running, possibly the ignition relay is being triggered and only the Killswitch interrupt that circuit. Does anybody have an idea where to start looking? I have the factory service manual but I’m not real savvy at reading the electrical troubleshooting menu. Thanks for any ideas you might have. All other functions on the bike work as normal, horn, lights ,signals , audio , reverse etc.



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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by Rambozo »

I would take a look around the switch for evidence of Bubba's handiwork like spliced wires, wads, of electrical tape, and such. If all looks good, unplug the switch and test it, to see if it needs replacing. The service manual has a truth table for all the positions and contacts in the switch so you can see if the problem is in the switch.
That mechanic sounds like Microsoft. "It's not a bug, it's a feature."

So with the switch in the off position, can you turn on the kill switch start the bike (maybe bump start) and ride away?

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ct1500
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by ct1500 »

With any ignition switch, off is always off with no connections to anything so I believe the switch itself has nothing to do with it. Does the one key open all the locks and work the ign switch, if so the switch prolly was not replaced. Some backwoods hack more likely fixed it their way by jumping a wire somewhere. With key off remove the ign/cruise relay next to fuse box, if it clicks on removal it for sure is being powered and is not a defective relay.
Last edited by ct1500 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

It does have a separate key for the ignition so it appears he did swap it for another ignition switch . I do not see any hacks into the wiring but am still looking ………… thanks for the replies

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by Erdeniz Umman »

hotrodpearl wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:28 pm
It does have a separate key for the ignition so it appears he did swap it for another ignition switch . I do not see any hacks into the wiring but am still looking ………… thanks for the replies
I think the mechanic has never changed the ignition switch, just made a short in the connector over the left fan.

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

Wingadmin and Erdeniz Umman , I know you guys are geniuses at this electrical stuff so wondered if you had any other ideas . I'm still struggling with this problem, so here's what I've done so far. I have removed the ignition switch and wiring harness and replaced it with no change in my problem and I have replaced the ignition relay with a new Honda relay. Also found out that when I turn the key off and it continues to run I can pull every single fuse in the fuse box and the two fuses in the relay box and it continues to run and I can also pull every single relay except the ignition relay and it continues to run until I hit the kill switch. This indicates to me that the relay is being triggered by feedback from a bad ground when it is running and thus the relay remains energized. the problem must be on the down side of connector C57 Does anybody know where I could start looking for a poor ground, I have removed and cleaned the grounds on the frame near my right knee again with no improvement in the problem. Or could I run an axillary ground to some location that would establish a ground for the ignition relay. I have closely inspected the wiring harness and can find no hacks and there are no additional accessories added except a battery tender lead which I have unhooked . Also ….I don't know if this is connected but reverse does not work and the lever switch checks out okay and the cables are adjusted properly , all other operations function like cruise , compressor , horn ,audio ,turn signals and lights …. Thanks for any input that y'all might have. : )

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

I did not swap the entire wiring harness , only the wiring from the ignition switch to the connector block by the left fan …….

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by Erdeniz Umman »

Can you compare the wire colors of the reverse lever switch on your bike with the following picture? Are they in the same spots?
I suspect the Blk/Wht and Wht/Blu wires are swapped. This can explain both the reverse and ignition switch problems.
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ct1500
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by ct1500 »

hotrodpearl wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 am
I have replaced the ignition relay with a new Honda relay. Also found out that when I turn the key off and it continues to run I can pull every single fuse in the fuse box and the two fuses in the relay box and it continues to run and I can also pull every single relay except the ignition relay and it continues to run until I hit the kill switch. This indicates to me that the relay is being triggered by feedback from a bad ground when it is running and thus the relay remains energized. the problem must be on the down side of connector C57 Does anybody know where I could start looking for a poor ground, I have removed and cleaned the grounds on the frame near my right knee again with no improvement in the problem. Or could I run an axillary ground to some location that would establish a ground for the ignition relay.s …. Thanks for any input that y'all might have. : )
It seems narrowed down to the ign/cruise relay wiring. ;) You will need to start checking the four pins behind that relay with key on and key off. With key off no pin should have power, test again with kill switch on and off, again no pin should have power. With key to run only two terminals will have power with relay removed, check for different results with kill switch on stop and run, should be same two energized. If different results and to verify results then you need to start checking wire colors behind relay to further diagnose. Bad ground not likely because there should be no power to run with key off.
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:32 pm
Can you compare the wire colors of the reverse lever switch on your bike with the following picture? Are they in the same spots?
I suspect the Blk/Wht and Wht/Blu wires are swapped. This can explain both the reverse and ignition switch problems.
I checked and my wires are exactly the same as yours...….. thanks for your help

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

ct1500 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:45 pm
hotrodpearl wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 am
I have replaced the ignition relay with a new Honda relay. Also found out that when I turn the key off and it continues to run I can pull every single fuse in the fuse box and the two fuses in the relay box and it continues to run and I can also pull every single relay except the ignition relay and it continues to run until I hit the kill switch. This indicates to me that the relay is being triggered by feedback from a bad ground when it is running and thus the relay remains energized. the problem must be on the down side of connector C57 Does anybody know where I could start looking for a poor ground, I have removed and cleaned the grounds on the frame near my right knee again with no improvement in the problem. Or could I run an axillary ground to some location that would establish a ground for the ignition relay.s …. Thanks for any input that y'all might have. : )
It seems narrowed down to the ign/cruise relay wiring. ;) You will need to start checking the four pins behind that relay with key on and key off. With key off no pin should have power, test again with kill switch on and off, again no pin should have power. With key to run only two terminals will have power with relay removed, check for different results with kill switch on stop and run, should be same two energized. If different results and to verify results then you need to start checking wire colors behind relay to further diagnose. Bad ground not likely because there should be no power to run with key off.
I will go do that right now...….. thanks for the coaching

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

ct1500 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:45 pm
hotrodpearl wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 am
I have replaced the ignition relay with a new Honda relay. Also found out that when I turn the key off and it continues to run I can pull every single fuse in the fuse box and the two fuses in the relay box and it continues to run and I can also pull every single relay except the ignition relay and it continues to run until I hit the kill switch. This indicates to me that the relay is being triggered by feedback from a bad ground when it is running and thus the relay remains energized. the problem must be on the down side of connector C57 Does anybody know where I could start looking for a poor ground, I have removed and cleaned the grounds on the frame near my right knee again with no improvement in the problem. Or could I run an axillary ground to some location that would establish a ground for the ignition relay.s …. Thanks for any input that y'all might have. : )
It seems narrowed down to the ign/cruise relay wiring. ;) You will need to start checking the four pins behind that relay with key on and key off. With key off no pin should have power, test again with kill switch on and off, again no pin should have power. With key to run only two terminals will have power with relay removed, check for different results with kill switch on stop and run, should be same two energized. If different results and to verify results then you need to start checking wire colors behind relay to further diagnose. Bad ground not likely because there should be no power to run with key off.
Here are the results , with the key on and the kill switch on I have 12.1 volts top left 0.3 volts top right 0 volts bottom left 12.1 volts bottom right
The results with the key on and the kill switch off are the same. The more bizarre thing I checked out is that when it's running and I turn the key off I can disconnect the bank angle sensor and it continues to run, if I plug the bank angle sensor in and pulley ignition Cruise relay it continues to run and if I pull both the BAS and the relay it continues to run and if i turn the key off it still continues to run till I hit the kill switch. Once it's running it doesn't seem to need the relay or the BAS however it will not restart unless the relay is in place and the BAS is hooked up..........

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

So once it's running, the ignition is getting a source of power without going through the relay or the Bas

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by ct1500 »

I spent a good deal of time studying the diagrams because you stated earlier it quits when ign/cruise relay pulled. Was I mistaken? And the results with key off?
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

ct1500 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:54 pm
I spent a good deal of time studying the diagrams because you stated earlier it quits when ign/cruise relay pulled. Was I mistaken? And the results with key off?
I may have misspoke, I had never pulled the ignition Cruise relay with it running before because I assumed it would of course die because it would have no power but I was wrong , because it continues to run with the relay pulled. With the key off I have no power in any of the four points of the relay no matter what position the kill switch is in . With it running and the relay pulled I have a 14.2 volts top left and 0.32 volts top right and 14.2 volts bottom left and 14.2 volts bottom right . Thank you so much for your input,

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

hotrodpearl wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 am
Wingadmin and Erdeniz Umman , I know you guys are geniuses at this electrical stuff so wondered if you had any other ideas . I'm still struggling with this problem, so here's what I've done so far. I have removed the ignition switch and wiring harness and replaced it with no change in my problem and I have replaced the ignition relay with a new Honda relay. Also found out that when I turn the key off and it continues to run I can pull every single fuse in the fuse box and the two fuses in the relay box and it continues to run and I can also pull every single relay except the ignition relay and it continues to run until I hit the kill switch. This indicates to me that the relay is being triggered by feedback from a bad ground when it is running and thus the relay remains energized. the problem must be on the down side of connector C57 Does anybody know where I could start looking for a poor ground, I have removed and cleaned the grounds on the frame near my right knee again with no improvement in the problem. Or could I run an axillary ground to some location that would establish a ground for the ignition relay. I have closely inspected the wiring harness and can find no hacks and there are no additional accessories added except a battery tender lead which I have unhooked . Also ….I don't know if this is connected but reverse does not work and the lever switch checks out okay and the cables are adjusted properly , all other operations function like cruise , compressor , horn ,audio ,turn signals and lights …. Thanks for any input that y'all might have. : )
I never pulled the ignition Cruise relay with it running until now and found out it continues to run with the ignition Cruise relay pulled and the bank angle sensor disconnected however it will not restart with either of those two things unplugged. My previous assumption was based on the fact that I assumed it would not run with the ignition relay pulled but I was wrong. Thanks everyone for your coaching...... I think both the bike and me are going to need therapy when this is over😂🤣😃

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

The key controls the lights signals, and tail lights when I cycle the key and the bike is not running, but when the bike is running and I shut off the key the bike continues to run and the lights Etc stay on and do not cycle with the key. I do not have the radio hooked up or the compressor because I have it so dismantled so I'm not sure if they would still work.

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by Erdeniz Umman »

If the reverse lever switch connection is correct, then the problem seems to be on the Blk/ltgrn wire going from relay 6 to kill switch connector (C57).

There may be a short or reverse feeding on that line.
Check if there is any modification on that line.

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by ct1500 »

With ign/cruise relay out only 2 terminals should have power with key on. Test again and see if kill switch position makes a difference with your three that are hot with key on (likely no). You are going to have to take a look at the wire colors behind relay. The two whites are the ones supposed to be hot, you have one extra hot. The one with .32V will probably be Wht/Red and would be OK. I suspect the Blk/Lt Grn wire is the problem and has been (hot wired/short to power) somewhere between the kill switch back to the pin behind relay. Remove both wires from kill switch (Blk/Wht and Blk/Lt Grn) and probe for voltage with key off, both should have no power. Probe the wires at kill switch first as it might be easier to get to, your choice over looking behind relay box. :) The Blk/Lt Grn wire of relay 6 powers many components from cruise control, alternator to carb components with splices in the harness. Just a matter of tracking it down. Going off a '94 manual so it should be close to what you have.
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:45 am
If the reverse lever switch connection is correct, then the problem seems to be on the Blk/ltgrn wire going from relay 6 to kill switch connector (C57).

There may be a short or reverse feeding on that line.
Check if there is any modification on that line.
Thank you so much for your coaching sir . I have disconnected C57 and inspected it , all pins are clean and straight and there is no visible modification on the harness where I can see it. I am now going to check for voltage at kill switch . I have also unhooked the dog bone fuse with the bike running and then turned the key off but it still kept running . I was trying to see if the power coming from the alternator was energizing the bike when the key was off .

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

ct1500 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:55 pm
With ign/cruise relay out only 2 terminals should have power with key on. Test again and see if kill switch position makes a difference with your three that are hot with key on (likely no). You are going to have to take a look at the wire colors behind relay. The two whites are the ones supposed to be hot, you have one extra hot. The one with .32V will probably be Wht/Red and would be OK. I suspect the Blk/Lt Grn wire is the problem and has been (hot wired/short to power) somewhere between the kill switch back to the pin behind relay. Remove both wires from kill switch (Blk/Wht and Blk/Lt Grn) and probe for voltage with key off, both should have no power. Probe the wires at kill switch first as it might be easier to get to, your choice over looking behind relay box. :) The Blk/Lt Grn wire of relay 6 powers many components from cruise control, alternator to carb components with splices in the harness. Just a matter of tracking it down. Going off a '94 manual so it should be close to what you have.
I will go and do that right now , thank you Sir for your wisdom and time ………. I stuck without some outside input .

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by Charlie1Horse »

I would try checking and disconnecting any and everything that the previous owner added to the electrical system. They could have hooked up something electronic that makes it do what you are describing.
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by ct1500 »

hotrodpearl wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:40 pm
I was trying to see if the power coming from the alternator was energizing the bike when the key was off .
An easy test for that is to carefully remove from post (without shorting anything to ground) the main lug wire (hot at all times) on alternator. If your third hot behind relay is then removed the alternator or noise suppressor is defective. There should only be the one small wire into alternator coming down from above (Blk/Lt Grn).
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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by hotrodpearl »

Okay ….. We have gained some ground …. yee haw ….. At someones suggestion I unplugged the black/light green wire at the Alternator and now the bike shuts off with the key …. so the culprit is the black/light green wire ……...where do I go from here ……. A big THANKYOU for all the coaching :)

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Re: 1996 GL1500A won,t turn off with key ?...

Post by ct1500 »

Ever since the ign switch was replaced. :roll: OEM or aftermarket alternator? OEM or aftermarket noise suppressor and wiring?


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