Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE


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David Doyle
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Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by David Doyle »



My question is from the (air in control solenoid # 36167-MT8-013) a vacuum tube with a green band goes up to the air box. I think it connects to a pipe on the bottom of the air box. But when I connect it there I hear a rattling noise from the engine and the bike does not idle well. If I put a cap on this vacuum tube and turn the throttle a little bit the rattling noise goes away and the engine idles smooth. This tube is drawing a vacuum when the engine starts and more when you turn the throttle. Any idea what I'm missing? Why I'm having a problem with this is that I had someone rebuild my carburetors and this is what I got back.


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Elmobile
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by Elmobile »

36167-MT8-013 is a Carburetor Air Jet (CAJ) solenoid valve. It actually connect to your carburetor and the valve is supposed to seal it. When needed the ECU will trigger the solenoid to open the valve and let the air in to the jet to adjust the fuel mixture. It is not supposed to be opened at idle hence why when you cap that line your bike goes back to a smooth idle.
Looks like one of your 2 solenoid valves is not operating as it should...
A few pages from my service manual for a 1994 but should be the same for your 1999.

Page 4-50
Page 4-50


Page 4-51
Page 4-51

Hope this help!

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Elmobile
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by Elmobile »

Forgot to mention last night... The tubing related to CAJ valves is color coded white. The green banded tube connecting to the right/top corner of the air box is not related to that CAJ circuit...

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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by Elmobile »

Just realized that I was on the wrong solenoid :shock:
Correction very shortly

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Elmobile
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by Elmobile »

The correct pages for the inspection of the IASA system...

Page 4-46
Page 4-46


Page 4-47
Page 4-47


Page 4-48
Page 4-48

Hope it help...

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David Doyle
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by David Doyle »

First of all thank you for responding. This is what I did. I took the no.6 (GRN) tube off of the intake manifold. I put a plug on the manifold and a plug on the no.6 tube. I applied vacuum to the no.3 (GRN) tube. Started the engine. I put my finger over the no.4 (GRN) tube and it is drawing a vacuum or sucking air in. The motor seems to run well like this. The no.4 tube is always sucking air even if I give the bike some throttle. If I take my finger off of the no.4 tube I can hear it sucking air. What do you think I should do next?
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ct1500
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by ct1500 »

The large No.4 green tube on bottom right front is filtered intake air for the PAIR (secondary air) system and Shot Air System. It will suck some air (gurgling noise) at an idle as air is being injected into the exhaust system for PAIR (emissions stuff). When you quickly rev the engine and release the gurgling stops for a split second just before RPM drops. If when you block it off are you saying it runs better? The shot air system is not in play at an idle, only on deceleration.
Last edited by ct1500 on Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Doyle
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by David Doyle »

The big tube at connect to the bottom of the air box in the upper right hand corner. I have the tube from the manifold clamped off and vacuum on the no.3 green which I think is to be connected to the bottom left front of the air box. I start the bike idle no chook. At this time I hear air being scuked into the no.4 upper right hand tube. I put my figure over the tube and the bike seems to idle down. This tube it sucking air all of the time. I turn the bike off with my figure still over the tube and it is still holding a vacuum. I have taken the IASA valve out. I apply vacuum to the lower outlet and it holds vacuum. I try to draw a vacuum to the little outlet and it just draws air. What now?
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ct1500
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by ct1500 »

Sounds like you got a problem with the Shot air system, lucky you :( All the hoses involved that are larger than regular vacuum hose have yellow bands and numbers, green bands for the PAIR system. The service manuals are very sketchy about this system. One year they mention a solenoid valve other years not, it is hit or miss. I would say the likely problem is a misrouted hose, you have to take a look and make a diagram of what you got and try to make heads or tail with what is available printed. The solenoid valve has larger hoses (yellow) that can be buried between where the CB goes and frame rail, anywhere in that area give or take a few inches up or down. Early models had them inboard of glove box. Carb removal required to get at the check valves on front of intake manifold riser. Do the test for the IASA valve per the manual.

The green hoses you are messing with are for PAIR. Shot air (IASA) valve is buried on top of engine. Do you have the vacuum diagram decal on gas tank under seat? If that tube can hold a vacuum with engine off and runs better with it capped it would have to be intake manifold I would guess leading me to believe a check valve problem. I never left my thumb on that hose after engine shutdown. :)
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by David Doyle »

I tested the IASA valve. This is the valve that is behind the left fan. I tried to pull vacuum on the small outlet and it does not hold a vacuum. Nothing I do well let air pass from the lower tube out the middle tube.
Does the no.4 grn tube that plugs into the bottom of the airbox on the upper right hand corner always suck air?
With the no.3 grn tube unplugged the engine or something around the engine makes a rattling noise. If I plug up this tube the engine idles down and is quite. With the no.3 grn tube capped the engine starts and runs well.
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by Elmobile »

I should be able to crank my engine sometime tomorrow. I check what's happening with green hose #4 and let you know.

You may want to watch this YouTube video:


   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!

The picture quality is not the best but it is good info to better understand how our bikes work. The IASA section is toward the end of the video...

Cheers

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ct1500
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by ct1500 »

David Doyle wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:26 pm
I tested the IASA valve. This is the valve that is behind the left fan. I tried to pull vacuum on the small outlet and it does not hold a vacuum. Nothing I do well let air pass from the lower tube out the middle tube.
Does the no.4 grn tube that plugs into the bottom of the airbox on the upper right hand corner always suck air?
With the no.3 grn tube unplugged the engine or something around the engine makes a rattling noise. If I plug up this tube the engine idles down and is quite. With the no.3 grn tube capped the engine starts and runs well.
The manual states to test the valve apply a 5psi pressure to one port and then apply a vacuum to the small port. If it has an internal check valve where the vacuum makes no difference without it seeing the 5psi on the other side that would explain your results. The vacuum only test is for the large No 1 yellow hose port. You have to check it by the book. The green no.4 tube is always making the gurgling sound at idle and when increasing RPM. The shot air valve and PAIR system both use the No. 4 green intake hose and when testing Shot system, PAIR is disabled. Without the air box on the No.3 green hose and No.3 pink hoses are wide open to drawing air leaning out the mixture which will make it run poorly from the left bank, plug the pink hose with a golf tee. The No. 3 green hose if memory serves correct bleeds minimal vacuum because the size of the port opening that goes through the air box is smaller than the I.D. of hose by a good margin. :?: This will further skew results towards poor/unanticipated running with it wide open when it normally is not.

What is the history of this bike and what is it doing, how do you know for a fact the carbs are perfect?
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by David Doyle »

I don't think I said the carbs are perfect. Everything started when I had someone rebuild the carbs. I have driven this bike for almost 200k miles and I know every sound it makes. when I got the bike home and idling in the garage I could hear a kind of rattling noise from the engine and it smelled like it was run rich. The person that did the carbs told me there was a tube under the airbox that he did not know where it plugged into. RED FLAG So I found the tube and with the engine idling I caped the tube off and the idle setalled down the rattling stopped. So I started taking the bike apart. I will not go into what I found that was not put together or put together wrong. But with the no.3 grn tube capped off the bike runs well. My concern is that with that tube capped off could I be done harm to the motor. The no.3 grn tube draws a vacuum with the engine starts and if you give the engine a little throttle the grn tube draws more vacuum. With vacuum applied to the no.3 grn tube and the motor idling air is being drawn in through the no.4 grn tube. When I put my finger into the no4. grn tube the rattling stops pull my finger out rattling comes back.
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by David Doyle »

I just discovered something else. With the no.3 grn tube capped off I started the bike. I put my finger over the no.4 grn tube and it is drawing very little air. If I turn the throttle just a little bit I can remove my finger from the no.4 grn tube and the bikes run fine. The rattling noise I hear is coming from something that the no.4 tube is connected to.
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by ct1500 »

David Doyle wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:11 pm
I just discovered something else. With the no.3 grn tube capped off I started the bike. I put my finger over the no.4 grn tube and it is drawing very little air. If I turn the throttle just a little bit I can remove my finger from the no.4 grn tube and the bikes run fine. The rattling noise I hear is coming from something that the no.4 tube is connected to.
Yes, but the No. 3 hose is never capped off and attaches to opening bottom left side box and is part of the PAIR system (noise from hose 4). You are doing something to the system that is not within the operational parameters. I think we have a difference in terminology regarding the noise. The No. 4 tube when properly connected to bottom of box with air filter and lid on you will not hear that rattling/gurgling anymore. It can be challenging to install the hose which if it was not attached previously you will HEAR it when riding. :) I use a small pair of needle nosed vise grips. Pull upward on hose as far as it will go then pinch edge of hose an inch or so down with the vise grips without distorting hose opening too much. Let the hose and grips settle back down, attach all other hoses to bottom of box. Position box near its final resting, grab vise grips and position the hose onto tube of box, release grips and secure box. This all gets done with hose retainer spring clamp in its installed position.
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Re: Carburetor question on 1999 Goldwing SE

Post by in2it »

Elmobile wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:48 am
I should be able to crank my engine sometime tomorrow. I check what's happening with green hose #4 and let you know.

You may want to watch this YouTube video:


   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!

The picture quality is not the best but it is good info to better understand how our bikes work. The IASA section is toward the end of the video...

Cheers
A great video ... showing how everything works... it would be nice if the video was clearer ... but I aint complaining :-)



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