Buzz vibration under load


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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dnt13
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC Canada
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE

Buzz vibration under load

Post by dnt13 »



2000 GL1500 SE ~ 40,000 km
I have a buzzing sound and vibration that seems to be coming from the engine area when the motor is lugged and working hard Eg: accelerating in a gear too high or when climbing a hill. It’s not a metallic sound - almost sounds like vibrating plastic and it buzzes the footpegs. The noise and vibration go away with increased speed and/or gearing down so the engine is not overloaded. Anybody else experience this? Not sure I had this before I changed to hi output alternator. I removed the new alt to check rotation and it spins freely. Yes, I replaced the rubber alt drive dampers. Thinking maybe I should check timing belt tension? I replaced the belts about 15,000 km ago but they shouldn’t stretch, correct? Someone said it’s possibly a U-joint problem but vibration is only under load and on acceleration and there’s only 40,000 km on it! After speeding up a bit or gearing down everything is completely smooth. Decelerating from speed is also completely smooth - no vibration whatsoever. Thoughts before I dive in without knowing what I should be looking for?
Dennis


Last edited by dnt13 on Sun May 10, 2020 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DenverWinger
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by DenverWinger »

Hi Dennis,
I kinda think you are looking for a problem where there isn't one. If you are lugging the engine, you are most likely just feeling the individual power pulses from each cylinder as the engine slowly turns. I would expect this on heavy throttle at low RPM.
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by Erdeniz Umman »

When you feel the vibration, you can pull in the clutch to isolate the problem whether it is caused by engine or drive system.
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CrystalPistol
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by CrystalPistol »

dnt13 wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:46 pm 2000 GL1500 SE ~ 40,000 km
I have a buzzing sound and vibration that seems to be coming from the engine area when the motor is lugged and working hard Eg: accelerating in a gear too high or when climbing a hill. It’s not a metallic sound - almost sounds like vibrating plastic and it buzzes the footpegs. The noise and vibration go away with increased speed and/or gearing down so the engine is not overloaded. Anybody else experience this? Not sure I had this before I changed to hi output alternator. I removed the new alt to check rotation and it spins freely. Yes, I replaced the rubber alt drive dampers. Thinking maybe I should check timing belt tension? I replaced the belts about 15,000 km ago but they shouldn’t stretch, correct? Someone said it’s possibly a U-joint problem but vibration is only under load and on acceleration and there’s only 40,000 km on it! After speeding up a bit or gearing down everything is completely smooth. Decelerating from speed is also completely smooth - no vibration whatsoever. Thoughts before I dive in without knowing what I should be looking for?
Dennis
Well, there you go. A solution looking for a problem? It's a 6 x 250cc cylinder engine of 4 stroke type with but three power pulses each revolution. The obvious cure you desire is to yank that engine out, split it open, mill out all the guts … and install a big electric motor to cure it … and haul batteries in the trailer.

You're killing it knowingly lugging it.

The 1500s have 5,500 rpm redlines, they are tuned to make power lower down than the 1200s were, but 3,000 or 4,000 ain't hurting it. The 1200s are even worse when abused by lugging under load in a higher gear, but they are 4 x 300CC cylinders & only have 2 power pulses per revolution. Any load, it was happiest at 2,500 or 3,000 rpm and above. 7,500 rpm redline. Luxury car makers used V-12 & V-16s back in the earlier days of the automobile when low rpm power was vogue, to smooth the power delivery. They knew how to build big 4 or 6 cylinder engines cheaper with fewer parts, but they would throb like a ship's engine.
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

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eastkytriker
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Motorcycle: 1990 Goldwing 1500-motortrike conversion
2008 Goldwing 1800/ Roadsmith HTS 1800

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by eastkytriker »

dnt13 wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:46 pm 2000 GL1500 SE ~ 40,000 km
I have a buzzing sound and vibration that seems to be coming from the engine area when the motor is lugged and working hard Eg: accelerating in a gear too high or when climbing a hill. It’s not a metallic sound - almost sounds like vibrating plastic and it buzzes the footpegs. The noise and vibration go away with increased speed and/or gearing down so the engine is not overloaded. Anybody else experience this? Not sure I had this before I changed to hi output alternator. I removed the new alt to check rotation and it spins freely. Yes, I replaced the rubber alt drive dampers. Thinking maybe I should check timing belt tension? I replaced the belts about 15,000 km ago but they shouldn’t stretch, correct? Someone said it’s possibly a U-joint problem but vibration is only under load and on acceleration and there’s only 40,000 km on it! After speeding up a bit or gearing down everything is completely smooth. Decelerating from speed is also completely smooth - no vibration whatsoever. Thoughts before I dive in without knowing what I should be looking for?
Dennis
My 1500 has the same problem. It started when I replaced the Alternator with then high output one (From China i'm sure) I also replaced the rubber dampers. Getting the OEM rebuilt to put back in service hopefully it will cure the vibration.
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thebruce
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by thebruce »

I agree with CrystalPistol.

If it makes funny noises lugging it, don't do that. Stay in the sweet spot.

Mmmm... sweet spot.

Not helping anything by making it to 5th before at least 80km/h (roundabout 50mph).
It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you have your knees to the breeze.
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CrystalPistol
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by CrystalPistol »

thebruce wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 10:13 pm I agree with CrystalPistol.

If it makes funny noises lugging it, don't do that. Stay in the sweet spot.

Mmmm... sweet spot.

Not helping anything by making it to 5th before at least 80km/h (roundabout 50mph).
Yep,a vibration resulting from an alternator is not going to smooth out at higher RPMs. Man uses the word "lugging" and he even writes "The noise and vibration go away with increased speed and/or gearing down so the engine is not overloaded", he described the cause. Ain't the alternator neither.
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
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robotreto
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Location: Munich, Bayern, Germany
Motorcycle: 1999 GL 1500 SE

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by robotreto »

eastkytriker wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 7:46 pm My 1500 has the same problem. It started when I replaced the Alternator with then high output one (From China i'm sure) I also replaced the rubber dampers. Getting the OEM rebuilt to put back in service hopefully it will cure the vibration.
I wonder if the vibration went away after re-installing the OEM alternator ?
(I have the exact same problem after installing a China high output alternator, alltough the vibrations have always been there, but not so strong as with the new alternator)
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eastkytriker
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Motorcycle: 1990 Goldwing 1500-motortrike conversion
2008 Goldwing 1800/ Roadsmith HTS 1800

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by eastkytriker »

robotreto wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:09 pm
eastkytriker wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 7:46 pm My 1500 has the same problem. It started when I replaced the Alternator with then high output one (From China i'm sure) I also replaced the rubber dampers. Getting the OEM rebuilt to put back in service hopefully it will cure the vibration.

I wonder if the vibration went away after re-installing the OEM alternator ?
(I have the exact same problem after installing a China high output alternator, alltough the vibrations have always been there, but not so strong as with the new alternator)
I installed the oem after being rebuilt and no more vibration
Cholt
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Motorcycle: 1980 CM400E
1988 GL1500

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by Cholt »

I bought a 1500 a month ago, and have been tracking the same problem. Fella I bought it from mentioned the new alternator a few times as a hot selling point. Glad I found this thread. Might be the fix to my problem.
robotreto
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by robotreto »

eastkytriker wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:23 pm I installed the oem after being rebuilt and no more vibration
What I don't get : What has the alternator to do with the demanded load on the drive train ? Without load (for example in N, or downhill) all rpms are fine with no vibrations, the vibrations start when opening the throttle while rpms are below 2000, above 2000 they go away, even with full throttle, and the engine runs smooth as ever.
With the OEM alternator, those vibrations were maybe half what they are now, not really disturbing. I dont get this connection.....
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plain
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Motorcycle: 1994 Aspencade

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by plain »

I posted this:
"I got a LAtrical for Christmas a few years back and installed it. It causes my '94' Aspencade to vibrate like mad from about 1200 to 2000 RPM. I took it back out and put in the factory one. Smooth as silk. So I disassembled the LActrical and find the bearings are not the highest quality and there is a good amount of end-play on the rotor when assembled. I tried thinking of a way to take up the thrust but couldn't figure a sure-fire way so I shelved the LActrical.
I reinstalled it a few weeks ago to see what I had been mad at and sure enough... bike shakes like a hula girl at certain RPM about 1200 to 2000. I'm going to take it back out this week and shelve it for good or sell it. I think it will wind up damaging something. I'm thinking cheap bearings but it may be the rotor is unbalanced but such a small part shouldn't have the kind of imbalance I'm seeing and it would probably cost more than it's worth to have the assembly balanced and good bearings installed."

over in the Technical section a few weeks ago. I tried the LActrical a couple of different times and it vibrates like I mentioned above. Either cheap bearings or unbalanced rotating element is my guess.
Regards, Scott

Just when you think things can't get any worse, you look in the mirror and...
robotreto
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by robotreto »

If it is bad alternator bearings : should'nt it vibrate also in Neutral when reving 1200 to 2000 rpm? That is definitely not the case with my bike, it vibrates only when I demand torque below 2000rpm.
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plain
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by plain »

Hi robotreto,
You would think so but I tried wiggling both alternator rotors with my hand this last time I took the aftermarket back out and you can't tell the difference. It could also be a thrust issue. With something this small it is really hard to pinpoint without proper tools, but I can tell you after I reinstalled my factory alternator my bike once again quit vibrating at certain RPM's and when under acceleration load.

Also, there are different grades of bearings. By that I mean internal dimensions and tolerances. It may be the cheaper bearings aren't capable of this service even when new. I'm sure the alternator is probably fine for automotive service where it is by itself and belt driven. It's when you couple it up to another machine that it falls behind.
Regards, Scott

Just when you think things can't get any worse, you look in the mirror and...
samwing1500
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Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL1500 Aspencade w/Hannigan Trike

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by samwing1500 »

Just to add a little fuel to the conversation, I had the same, and I mean the same, vibration and noise
between 1200 and 2000 then just quiet. I put the oem back in and all problem went away. Sent the
90 amp back and they sent me another. The very same problem. I took it out and just kept it in the
trunk for a spare, in case I ever need to change out on the road.
Sam
2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL 1500 Trike
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eastkytriker
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Motorcycle: 1990 Goldwing 1500-motortrike conversion
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by eastkytriker »

samwing1500 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:55 pm Just to add a little fuel to the conversation, I had the same, and I mean the same, vibration and noise
between 1200 and 2000 then just quiet. I put the oem back in and all problem went away. Sent the
90 amp back and they sent me another. The very same problem. I took it out and just kept it in the
trunk for a spare, in case I ever need to change out on the road.
My experience exactly l put the oem back on and vibration went away so I put the other one on the shelf
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Swagonmaster
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by Swagonmaster »

Just for kicks try disconnecting the wires at the alternator and see if it might be a resonance from the electrical load. If the vibration goes away it's the charging load, if it doesn't then it's the balance or whatnot in the alternator itself and the charging load is likely magnifying it.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!
bbrackett
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Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by bbrackett »

Hi, I don't yet buy into this Alternator vibration, but I think I have the same issue, annoying as heck and I can't say for sure I had the same issue before replacing the original alt with a DB Electic cheapy Chinese one.

I still have the original alt and the bearing failed as did the Voltage Reg, and the brushes were very worn
Well, after 17mos and 11k miles on the nose, the Chinese Alt Failed, guessing it's the voltage reg.

It seems there are 7? manufactures of Altenators, these are the cross-reference numbers for the 90a 1990-2000 one.
I bought a 40a version

Thinking of going with CompuFire, but even those are failing, and I can't afford the Honda one, ugh.
I called DB Electrical, sorry it's been over a year.

what do we do, buy one then replace once a year before the warranty expires ? lol.

that's what I get for putting my side panels on :-(



101K miles
ORDER DATE Mar 18, 2021
ebay ID: dbelectricaluser
New Alternator For Honda Goldwing GL1500 LR140-708C LR140-708 LR140-708C
ITEM PRICE: US $110.60

INTERCHANGES
ARROWHEAD AHA0002
EMS GA-101N-90
J & N 400-44102
LESTER 12527
PIC 204-190D
TUCKER ROCKY 464177
WAI 1-2494-01HI-1, 12485N-90A
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Swagonmaster
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Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by Swagonmaster »

Take it to an alternator repair shop and find out what is going wrong. If it’s just a regulator then replace it and see what happens, if it has other issues then it would be up to you how much to put in it but if you have to spend money anyway then you know it’s just $$$.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!
robotreto
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:50 am
Location: Munich, Bayern, Germany
Motorcycle: 1999 GL 1500 SE

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by robotreto »

I guess the China-Alternator has a too loose rotor play, which wiggles back and forth when vibrations are induced from the engine under load, with matching resonance frequencies.

Anyway, in the meantime I sold my GL1500 and got myself a Kawasaki VN1700....I had the GL1500 more than 9 years without any problems, the alternator was the first one. I loved to ride her, but it was really cumbersome to manouver in slow speeds, with this very spongy front wheel and the heavy weight.

The Kawa is also fun to drive, but has 80 Kilos less, and a very stable front wheel, which makes manouvring less of a pain.

The most important feature of the Kawa is however the ABS, it brakes like a car, whereas the GL1500 had not good brakes at all.

I will still look into this great forum, as I kind of miss my Goldwing already....
bbrackett
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Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500

Re: Buzz vibration under load

Post by bbrackett »

Haha.. I do hope you enjoy the KW and it treats you well - FYI - the New GW's have ABS as well

Russian components, American components.. all made in Taiwan !!! :-) er China !!


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