Lets talk dogbone fuse


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
Post Reply
samwing1500
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:18 pm
Location: Georgia
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL1500 Aspencade w/Hannigan Trike

Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by samwing1500 »



I read the thread about dogbone fuse (55 amp) getting hairline cracks and occasionally
creating an open then cooling for a few mins and going back to normal. I ordered some
of them and going to replace mine just for piece of mind. Question is this: My other
2000 GL1500 SE had two dogbones on it one on top of the other. I bought a CompUFire
and put it on that bike when it was almost new and it came with the extra dogbone.
Rode it over 90,000 miles and this year decided to look around for a trike. Found one
same color, year model etc with a Hannigan trike kit on it and bought it. Not long
after I got it the alternator broke and I put another on it.
This trike has a stock alternator on it. In fact its the stock one I took off of the other
1500 when I put the CompU fire on it. It probably has about 10,000 miles on it. Here it
comes, would there be any reason to put two dogbones on this bike. I don't really know
why the CompU Fire called for two but it did. Its simple enough to stack two on there and I
guess if one developed these hairline cracks the other would still have continuity and I would
never even know. (ha ha) Just throwing that out for comments. I may just order a high output
alternator from Hemming anyway (keep this one for spare) or maybe a CompUFire and then
I will put two on anyway.
But for now just talking about a stock alternator.


Sam
2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL 1500 Trike

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 3041
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade
183K Miles
2017 - GL1800 Audio Comfort
10K Miles
Contact:

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by MikeB »

samwing1500 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:47 pm
... Here it comes, would there be any reason to put two dogbones on this bike.
Nope, no reason to do that I can think of. If you are worried about the existing fuse breaking, just replace it.
samwing1500 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:47 pm
I don't really know why the CompU Fire called for two but it did.
I think it was because Engine Electronics, the manufacturer, decided it was necessary to have a larger fuse due to the increase in amperage output, 90 amps, compared to the stock 40 amp alternator.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/184,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/13000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 18 Years / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 6 Years. Retired.
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 22 years.
Retired in Tacoma, WA

samwing1500
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:18 pm
Location: Georgia
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL1500 Aspencade w/Hannigan Trike

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by samwing1500 »

Thanks Mike B
I will just put a new one on and ride ride ride. Have a good day.
Sam
Sam
2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL 1500 Trike

User avatar
CrystalPistol
Posts: 1398
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500SE/'98 Lehman Trike

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by CrystalPistol »

Our trike has had a Comp-U-Fire since very early 2000s, like maybe 1999 or 2001 even. I have the instructions with notes the owner made then when he put it in, he was told the reason for two 55A dog bones was because the CuF put out 60 amps at idle, but charging systems don't "push" amps into a battery to charge it, they provide the capacity for when the battery is "able to accept" it. I guess if a battery was dead-dead, and called for a charge, the CuF might overwhelm a single 55A dog bone, but I think the single 55A fuse would be OK with a CuF otherwise.

I did have a copy of a post I saw years ago where fellow installed a 70 amp automotive fuse (as I recall), then NAPA 782-1344 in the place of the 55 amp long fuse. I don't know if it was discontinued or superceded, but can't find a listing for it now but there is Littelfuse 0PAL270.XP PAL 13/16 Bent 32 Volt 70 Amp Carded Auto Link Fuse? I do recall he was pleased. I've considered using one in 70 or 80 amp rating myself. I've seen these fuses at Advance Auto Parts too. I've long meant to remove my doubled 55A fuses & install a single 70A like the one below, I just haven't done it yet.
Attachments


Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
:)

User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by ct1500 »

Maxi fuses are used in the trucking industry widely available with every 10A step to fit any need and low cost.
https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Large-Blade ... B01DTH2HA6
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by DenverWinger »

The High output alternators will NEVER be outputting max power on a Goldwing, the point of having one is to have GOOD output at Idle RPM. The regulator in the alternator will keep the amperage throttled back so that it is only outputting what the bike needs, generally around 30 amps. The nice thing about the HO alternator is it can provide the 30 amps at idle RPMs, the OEM alternator cannot.

The 55 amp fuse is there to protect the bike wiring in case of a short. No reason to put a bigger fuse in, even with a High Output alternator. Doubling the dogbone fuses means it won't blow until over 110 Amps, if there's a short the full output of the battery will have melted the bike wiring long before that fuse blows.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

samwing1500
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:18 pm
Location: Georgia
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL1500 Aspencade w/Hannigan Trike

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by samwing1500 »

Thanks everyone for the input. Good comments.
Sam
Sam
2000 GL1500 SE
2000 GL 1500 Trike

User avatar
thebruce
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:12 pm
Location: Boundary Country, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1991 GL1500SE Anniversary Edition #54

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by thebruce »

DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:43 am
The 55 amp fuse is there to protect the bike wiring in case of a short. No reason to put a bigger fuse in, even with a High Output alternator. Doubling the dogbone fuses means it won't blow until over 110 Amps, if there's a short the full output of the battery will have melted the bike wiring long before that fuse blows.
This.

If you make the fuse bigger, you had best oversize the wires to suit. If there is a fault in that wire you may burn down your bike rather than simply opening a fuse.

Safety schmafety.
It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you have your knees to the breeze.

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 21301
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by WingAdmin »

DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:43 am
The High output alternators will NEVER be outputting max power on a Goldwing, the point of having one is to have GOOD output at Idle RPM. The regulator in the alternator will keep the amperage throttled back so that it is only outputting what the bike needs, generally around 30 amps. The nice thing about the HO alternator is it can provide the 30 amps at idle RPMs, the OEM alternator cannot.

The 55 amp fuse is there to protect the bike wiring in case of a short. No reason to put a bigger fuse in, even with a High Output alternator. Doubling the dogbone fuses means it won't blow until over 110 Amps, if there's a short the full output of the battery will have melted the bike wiring long before that fuse blows.
Not true. There is a direct connection from the alternator, through the main fuse, to the battery. The 55 amp fuse is ONLY on the battery, it is NOT between the alternator and the bike wiring.

Also, the regulator in an alternator regulates the VOLTAGE, not the amperage. The current is not regulated - it will supply whatever is being demanded of it, up to its rated capacity (or its capacity at a given RPM).

Alternators and batteries have control over the voltage being produced. It is up to the load connected to them to determine how much current is being drawn. For more on this, see my first article: Electricity 101 Part 1: Voltage and Amperage

The OEM alternator can put out maximum 40 amps. So it would NEVER supply more than 40 amps to charge the battery, because it can't produce more than 40 amps.

If the battery is severely drained, it can draw a tremendous amount of current, if it is supplied with it. The Compufire alternator can supply up to 90 amps, and a depleted battery can EASILY draw 90 amps of charge current. In that case, it would blow the standard 55 amp fuse to the battery.

Honda used a 55 amp fuse, which has a 38% safety margin over the maximum 40 amps that the alternator could supply. Compufire doubles this to a pair of 50 amp fuses, for 110 amps, including an 18% safety margin over the 90 amps the alternator could supply. This will prevent blowing the 55 amp fuse when charging a depleted battery.

The problem is that the battery can also easily supply 110 amps of current, but the OEM wiring to the rest of the bike is designed to be protected by a 55 amp fuse, not a 110 amp fuse. So if there were a catastrophic short on the main battery cable leading to the main fuse bus, it could potentially draw more current than the wire is rated for, and melt the wire. I've never heard of it happening, but it's not an impossibility.

The Compufire could definitely produce full output. Assume 30 amps to run the engine, lights and systems. That's 60 amps of remaining capacity. I guarantee that a battery depleted from a few start attempts will be drawing that full 60 amps from the alternator, meaning, at least while the battery is still charging, that the Compufire is producing its full 90-amp rated output.

GL1500 Charging circuit
GL1500 Charging circuit


User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by ct1500 »

The EE guys at CompuFire did their homework in the recommendation of increasing the fuse rating. :)
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

User avatar
CrystalPistol
Posts: 1398
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500SE/'98 Lehman Trike

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by CrystalPistol »

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:16 pm
… etc …
The problem is that the battery can also easily supply 110 amps of current, but the OEM wiring to the rest of the bike is designed to be protected by a 55 amp fuse, not a 110 amp fuse. So if there were a catastrophic short on the main battery cable leading to the main fuse bus, it could potentially draw more current than the wire is rated for, and melt the wire. I've never heard of it happening, but it's not an impossibility. … etc … Charging Circuit.jpeg
But isn't the rest of the bike's wiring protected by a 30A fuse within the Relay "A" connector. The 55A dog bone looks to only protect wiring from the potential of a short drawing from the battery by the alternator or of a battery drawing high recharge current from the alternator … or am I missing something?
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
:)

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by DenverWinger »

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:16 pm

Also, the regulator in an alternator regulates the VOLTAGE, not the amperage. The current is not regulated - it will supply whatever is being demanded of it, up to its rated capacity (or its capacity at a given RPM).
Sorry, I know this well, I was trying to "Dumb it down" a little...

Most common cause of blowing dogbone fuse is either diode failure in the alternator (a direct short to ground inside the alternator) or a reverse-voltage jumpstart. In that case the reverse voltage from the jumping battery will flow thru the diode pack of the alternator and blow the fuse.

I have a Hitachi LR140-708C Hi output alternator the PO installed on the 1500 (Googled the part number - it is 90 Amps), still no issues with the 55 amp dogbone.


♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

User avatar
CrystalPistol
Posts: 1398
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500SE/'98 Lehman Trike

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by CrystalPistol »

DenverWinger wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:26 am
… etc …
I have a Hitachi LR140-708C Hi output alternator the PO installed on the 1500 (Googled the part number - it is 90 Amps), still no issues with the 55 amp dogbone.
100_1222.JPG
I've read others say same. Makes sense. If I don't sell it (have someone whom wants it) …. might drop back to just one. It's had two for near 20 years.
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
:)

User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by ct1500 »

By the same token have you ever heard of anyone burning up their ride with a higher fuse installed? :) The 1800 has a main fuse rating of 100A/120A (?) in the same wiring location as the 55A 1500. No discussion ever heard about this and taken as a given on the 85A equipped alternator 1800 but it has to be fused for alternator output capability to battery even though 99.9% of the machines on the road will never see that kind of amperage demand.
The CompuFire is in a class by itself with manufacturer tested 60A available at idle RPM. Does your HO alternator drop idle RPM by 200 when supplying the extra current needed using reverse and if not your HO alternator is not even close to producing 55A. No free lunch when it comes to current production, it takes HP to turn the rotor of an alternator. The OEM fuse will take short duration surges well above its' 55A rating. There are really only two scenarios when the Compufire could breech the 55A OEM fuse and cause it to blow, using reverse or jump starting another vehicle If the alternator were spinning fast enough (well above idle RPM) and for long enough duration while doing so which most owners would have no reason to do or even encounter.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 21301
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Lets talk dogbone fuse

Post by WingAdmin »

ct1500 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:40 am
By the same token have you ever heard of anyone burning up their ride with a higher fuse installed? :) The 1800 has a main fuse rating of 100A/120A (?) in the same wiring location as the 55A 1500. No discussion ever heard about this and taken as a given on the 85A equipped alternator 1800 but it has to be fused for alternator output capability to battery even though 99.9% of the machines on the road will never see that kind of amperage demand.
The CompuFire is in a class by itself with manufacturer tested 60A available at idle RPM. Does your HO alternator drop idle RPM by 200 when supplying the extra current needed using reverse and if not your HO alternator is not even close to producing 55A. No free lunch when it comes to current production, it takes HP to turn the rotor of an alternator. The OEM fuse will take short duration surges well above its' 55A rating. There are really only two scenarios when the Compufire could breech the 55A OEM fuse and cause it to blow, using reverse or jump starting another vehicle If the alternator were spinning fast enough (well above idle RPM) and for long enough duration while doing so which most owners would have no reason to do or even encounter.
Not true - as I explained above, the battery could easily pull 60 amps from the alternator during a post-start recharge, and that's going through that 55 amp fuse.



Post Reply