how to remove carbs ??

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:05 am

I need some help. Quick history. I bought a 96 that had been sitting for almost 2 years. it would start on full choke only and would sort of rev up. I have ran seafoam though it after letting it sit with it in carbs. I have now run 2 tanks of gas through it. it is ridable but is not right yet. it surges bad at idle and up to about 2K then will mostly smooth out.I have it down to top of carbs now
after messing with it yesterday I got it to idle without really surging but it barely idles and only with idle thumb screw cranked all the way down. so I think I have diaphrams bad. question, if I push the plunger all the way in and then cover the intake hole should it hold in place. I'm referring to the big plunger in the main ports. if I do this the left one will return to it's resting position but slower than the right one, also if I cover the intake port of the left one while it's idling it will effect the running but nothing happens if I cover the right one. if I cover them both the motor will rev up to high RPMS
and when I remove it will die. messing with them yesterday made it run much better when I put the filter back on and the idle surge almost stopped but now I have the hesitation when you first throttle it. that was probably always there but it ran so bad at idle I couldn't feel it
So I have looked and looked and can't find anywhere with a how to remove the carbs or how to replace the diaphrams. I looked and can't see how to get the carbs loose from the intake
also is it possible to just take the carbs loose enough to tilt them to one side or the other the replace the diaphrams without taking them completely out

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:42 am

OK I was looking more and found some vids on U-Tube so I will watch some of them tonight and see if I can get all my questions answered. I should have thought of that before now

ct1500 · Post by **ct1500** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:07 am

Your carb slides (secondary mains) have nothing to do with idle quality.

On a machine that sat for two years I would be going straight for the idle jets/circuit inside the float bowls. If when apart you find the slide diaphragms damaged then you replace.

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:34 am

OK that's good info.
Thanks

wingdings · Post by **wingdings** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:08 pm

Hi - saw your post there have a gander at these vids too -

- Hope it helps you ...

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aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:24 am

wow those are great videos, they should come in very handy. I will have to study them carefully before I tackle this task. I am trying one last time to let it soak in seafoam as after messing with it this past weekend the idle had gotten better and the surging was almost gone. if this doesn't work the carbs are coming off
Thank you for posting the vids

Snowmoer · Post by **Snowmoer** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:08 am

If you do pull the carbs, save yourself some hassle, get new carb boots. Those are the rubber parts that are between the carb and the intake. They get hard over time, and trying to push the carb back in can be a real bear. I put new ones on mine, and they slide in with just a little pushing. There is a lip on the carb that needs to go into the slot in the carb boot. Make sure you do this or it will leak air and run lean.

wingdings · Post by **wingdings** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am

If you do rebuild the carbs - There only one make to buy and use Radakks kit -

Unlike ordinary aftermarket kits, each Randakk kit provides everything listed for both carbs + other items required for splitting and re-joining the carbs. Included: rebuild kit for the accelerator pump.

Only the highest quality items are included. Thoroughly tested and represents the best value available in the market. You will need everything in this kit to do a proper overhaul of your carbs.

Here's what you get:

Viton O-rings:

2 - fuel (idle) mixture screw (2.8 x 1.1 mm)
2 - float bowl drain screw (4.3 x 1.3 mm)
2 - air cleaner base seal oring (above air horn...94.84 x 3.53 mm)
Accelerator Pump O-rings - install with accelerator pump on right carb (supplied in all kits)

2 - accelerator pump fuel pipe (3.8 x 2.0 mm)
1 - accelerator pump passage at right float bowl (2.8 x 1.9 mm).
Jet Holder O-rings - install at "jet holder" inside most '92 and later carbs only (but supplied in all kits)

2 - slow jet (2.8 x 1.3 mm)
2 - primary main jet (2.8 x 1.3 mm)
2 - secondary emulsion tube (6.0 x 1.3 mm) ...mounts under washer on emulsion tube that secures holder.
Float Bowl Gaskets - 2 of each:

Constructed of superior Viton material to resist the components of modern gasoline.
Miscellaneous Parts:

2 Intake chamber seals (below air horn)
1 accelerator pump overhaul kit with rubber bellows (omitted by some suppliers)
2 idle mixture screw washers
1 mm cotter pins - 7 supplied (simple item, but hard to find elsewhere)
Master Kit includes all needed o-rings including the 3 "jet holder" orings inside later carbs.

Note: No jets, needles or other calibrated parts are supplied. These can normally be cleaned and reused. If you decide you need any calibrated "hard" parts, spring for the genuine Honda bits. In most cases, these are readily available from Honda.

No float valve/seat assemblies in this kit. Many aftermarket rebuild kits include float valve/seat assemblies of dubious quality. Previously, there were problems with these aftermarket items. Most related to the aftermarket float needles being incorrectly sized (too short) resulting in unreliable (or nonexistent) fuel shutoff. The rubber tips and seats on the OEM item will last nearly forever and can usually be cleaned and reused. If you decide to reuse your existing float assemblies, be sure to remove and clean the small fuel strainer beneath the float seat! This also helps us to keep cost down and give you a choice on what to buy if you think new ones are needed.

If you need new float valve/seat assemblies, you can buy the OEM item. You'll also get new fuel inlet screens (the plastic strainers installed below each float valve).

Considerable skill is required to install this (29 piece) high quality kit correctly. Since Randakk's cannot control this important variable, there is no warranty. Rest assured that they are of the highest quality materials and workmanship. Each kit has been carefully packed and inspected to ensure that all items are included.

No fuel filter is included but it would be a crime to not take prudent measures to ensure a pure fuel supply! Randakk's recommends OEM Honda filter as a high quality replacement unit.

Warning: Please open the package very carefully when it arrives. Many of the parts are very small so take appropriate precautions. If you chose to open the package in the dark over your gravel driveway, after 1 or 12 beers, please don't later complain that you are a "few o-rings short." Seriously, do be careful when you open the package!

Not sure can handle your own rebuild? Then consider Randakk's Approved Honda Carb Rebuilder Program.

To read more reviews on this and other products visit our Review Site, http://www.randakksreviews.com

There are others out there - but these are the not the best !! and 9 times out of 10 they wont work too or you have problems with them !! - Here is the web link

https://www.randakks.com/randakks-own-g ... ing%2F1989

Save on the bother too !! - Hope this helps

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:14 pm

OK so here is where I stand with this thing. I have run the seafoam for the last time and after I gas up again I will have run all of it through so I will have just gas. here are the results, the bike still struggles to idle and will only idle if the throttle thumb screw is cranked almost all the way down. I can now back it off some and it sort of idles but it still surges, just not near as bad as before. It now runs much better but is a bit rough if below 22K RPM. I know the carbs have to came off and I will be starting this soon. However I need to ask does it sound like a complete rebuild is needed or just clean out good
I sprayed starting fluid all around the carbs with it running and it never revved up so I think I'm OK as far as vacume leaks go. it looks like the rebuild kit is out of stock in the link above, I'll have to see if there is anywhere else to get it from.

ct1500 · Post by **ct1500** » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:36 pm

OEM gasket kits are the way to go and will save a ton of money.

Do yourself a favor and get the OEM replacement slow jets for guaranteed factory results.

RockportDave · Post by **RockportDave** » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:25 pm

After pulling my carbs off 2 times, the 3rd time I did it right and soaked them in Berrymans chem dip. Soaking them in dip cleans the very small passages in the carb body that cannot be cleaned manually or with spray cleaner. Just follow the directions on the dip can. Below is what mine looked like after the dip. Be sure to remove everything that is not metal from the carb bodys before dipping.

I replaced the jets, orings, pilot screw, boots, rubber heat shield under the carbs with OEM parts. I cut a small groove for a flat head screwdriver in the new pilot screws to be able to adjust them later, they are hard to reach when adjusting.
While the carbs are off, check EVERY vacuum hose, especially the No.1 Orange hose at the bottom of this diagram. It is notorious for a hole at the 90° bend and will cause the engine to surge while idling.

It is worth the time and money spent to do it right and not have to go back to the carbs again.
Set the floats per the Manual and set the pilot screws initial setting before installing the carbs. Screw the pilot screws in and count the number of turns on each pilot screw before removing them. When seating them be very careful and do it lightly.
Dave

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:11 am

OK new question to go along with the vacuum lines. I found a vacuum hose on the left side not connected to anything, the weird part is the end where it would connect is square or rectangular shaped not
round. I couldn't find anything for it to go to. anyone have an idea what it goes to. I plugged it for now because it definatly has vacuum on it

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:34 am

so I'm getting ready to pull the carbs this weekend possibly. I ran across another thread while doing more research and it was about a problem with the pair valve/air shot system IE smog control
from what I'm understanding the hose coming into the air box on the right front corner is what feeds this system and is only supposed to have vacuum when decelerating, mine has vacuum all the time and the more throttle you give it the harder the vacuum gets. I looked it up and the valve appears to not be available any more. I read you can remove the pair valve system and plug the lines for it from the engine and it not have detrimental effects on the rest of the bike. now I'm not saying this is what I want to do but I'm not opposed to it if it is a viable repair under my circumstances

are there other options to correct the pair valve not working properly. I feel I need to fix this before I tear into my carbs as at this time everything wrong points to vacuum leaks and I did a check for leaks with starting fluid and didn't find any that way
it surges at idle, it is slow to drop RPM's it is running VERY lean. if I carefully reduce air flow into the air box I can make the idle smooth out nice and it will excel smooth while sitting but you can't ride it like that
I just want to be completely informed of my options before I start this repair

ct1500 · Post by **ct1500** » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:29 pm

That is the air inlet for the pair system and is supposed to be drawing air in during idle and acceleration so it is working as designed. It is going into the exhaust and not a vacuum leak.

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:54 pm

ct1500 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:29 pm That is the air inlet for the pair system and is supposed to be drawing air in during idle and acceleration so it is working as designed. It is going into the exhaust and not a vacuum leak.

so you saying it is supposed to have vacuum at idle and accel, not during deceleration. that is the opposite of what I read earlier. see this is why I keep asking the questions. I need to fully understand everything so I can fix the right thing

ct1500 · Post by **ct1500** » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:24 pm

Idle, acceleration and some deceleration is when air gets drawn in while revving it up. There is a brief pause in operation just at the beginning point of deceleration which prevents after burn in the exhaust.
It is not engine intake manifold vacuum and has no effect on engine mixture, it is for emissions.
Your bike sat for two years, do the pilot jets in the carbs, no need to over think it.

Pinch or plug off that hose to see if it makes a difference in the way it is running on the off chance there is a shot air problem. The pair and shot air systems both use that filtered air intake hose for their operation.

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:52 pm

I see I kind of ran that all together, I wasn't implying that I wasn't going to pull and build the carbs, I was just concerned that I might have another issue as well. it looks like it will be a few weeks before I can get a Randakk's carb kit so I thought if there was a way to properly check the pair/air shot system I should do it and make the repairs as needed now. when I read it shouldn't have vacuum at idle or acceleration I got concerned because mine does and it sort of has a rattling sound from the hose sometimes. so should the bike idle and accel with the complete air box off of it. I have never until now tried to run one with the filer and housing off.
Oh yeah one more question, what will make the bike run VERY lean, is that still a air mix issue in the carbs, that is what got me interested in the discussion about the pair valve/ air shot system
this bike is running bad lean and only getting maybe 25 MPG

XJSRider · Post by **XJSRider** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:35 pm

Maybe a bit off topic but after being through this procedure on several different bikes and classic cars as well as an assortment of yard equipment... the ultrasonic cleaner from harbor freight does a fantastic job on these small bits. I use simple green pro HD and water about 1:5 and it works great.

IMPORTANT
Don't use regular simple green it will eat aluminum. Pro HD is safe for everything. You can get it at home depot it is purple.

AZgl1800 · Post by **AZgl1800** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:13 pm

XJSRider wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:35 pm Maybe a bit off topic but after being through this procedure on several different bikes and classic cars as well as an assortment of yard equipment... the ultrasonic cleaner from harbor freight does a fantastic job on these small bits. I use simple green pro HD and water about 1:5 and it works great.

IMPORTANT
Don't use regular simple green it will eat aluminum. Pro HD is safe for everything. You can get it at home depot it is purple.

I just picked up that Ultrasonic cleaner, extremely useful.
and when I was using one in our tech shop, we used Simple Green and that was 20-30 years ago

XJSRider · Post by **XJSRider** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:51 pm

Mine (cleaner) has had a pretty intense life running multiple back to back cycles and it has held up great going on 3 years.

Re: Simple green old school, the air force stopped using it they thought it was corroding their aluminium jets. Simple Green people had to reformulate it into an "aircraft safe" mix that met new performance spec and the air force started using it again. Someone on I think a bobistheoilguy thread claiming to be a pilot said they thought the PRO HD was the same thing as the aircraft safe formula. Regardless, the Pro HD is the only mix I could find that specifically said safe for aluminium, and I didn't have anything at home so that's what I bought.

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:21 am

I removed the carbs this weekend and have found someone to rebuild them for me. I inspected all the vacuum hoses I could see and get to and they all look real good. I still can't figure out where the one on the right side that was not connected goes.

bellboy40 · Post by **bellboy40** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:57 am

aj1500, you stated in an earlier post that you found a vacuum hose on the left side that was not connected to anything. Now in your last post you said you can't find where the hose on the right side that is not connected to anything goes. Which hose is it ..... left or right side? What color is the hose?

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:03 pm

bellboy40 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:57 am aj1500, you stated in an earlier post that you found a vacuum hose on the left side that was not connected to anything. Now in your last post you said you can't find where the hose on the right side that is not connected to anything goes. Which hose is it ..... left or right side? What color is the hose?

Oh man good catch, my bad. It is on the left side. it comes up from what looks like under the cruise module. at first I thought it might be related but the cruise works fine and there are no places to put it. I checked it again right before I pulled the carbs and this time I didn't detect any vacuum. it won't reach much farther than under the air filter housing so what ever it connected to has to be or been close. I'm still really confused as to the end being square rather than round. it was not pinched in any way it was just laying there.

bellboy40 · Post by **bellboy40** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:44 pm

I'm not sure what that might be. Does it have any color band on it? Most of those hoses are marked with a color code according to their function. Is it a large or smaller hose?

aj1500 · Post by **aj1500** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:32 pm

I looked for the band and didn't see it but will look again. it is a small hose. I'll get a couple pictures and see if that will help

how to remove carbs ??

how to remove carbs ??

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