Possible Underlying Electrical Issue


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JPochron
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Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »



I have a 95 Aspencade Trike I bought in December of 2018. I've replaced the alternator and fuel pump with aftermarket. A few members have helped me tremendously with advice on a recent issue. I'm trying to determine with the parts I've already replaced and still have an issue if there is possibly an underlying electrical issue. The OEM Fuel Pump was replaced last year because it went out once but my mechanic took it out tapped it checked it and thought it was good but it went out again so I purchased the Airtex aftermarket filter and installed it. Because I was having the trike painted I didn't ride it much until recently maybe putting a couple hundred miles on the fuel pump. Last week it quit working got it home let it sit a few hours and it started working again but then the next day it went out again. I pulled the fuel line and it wasn't pumping gas so I replaced it with another aftermarket I bought at the same time. At this time it's been working fine though I haven't ridden it anywhere but plan to ride it this Saturday. I purchased a New OEM Fuel Pump but it won't be here until next Tuesday. So I plan to carry it with me in the trunk and if it goes out again I can replace it if I break down. The other thing that happened when the fuel pump quit was the starter wouldn't disengage when the button was released and even when the key was turned off. Wingadmin suggested the started relay could be bad and I plan on replacing that also. The thing is by his description if the contacts welded themselves together it would still be doing but it's not it only happened twice when I attempted to restart it after the fuel pump quit working. Another thing today I decided to check the pump that quit working and surprising it was pumping so it's very strange that it appears to be intermittent. Is it possible that something in the electrical system that could be causing these failures? The reason I think that is because it quit let it sit then it worked let it sit again it worked just very strange. The battery is fully charged putting out over 13 volts. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to try to explain it as best I could. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Joe



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Fiberthree
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Fiberthree »

How is your fuel cap?
Ed

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

Fuel cap looks good. I believe there is something electrical going on causing the problem

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Fiberthree
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Fiberthree »

The reason I asked was when it quits if there was a whoosh of air going in when you removed the cap I would think a vacuum was building up inside that the pump couldn't overcome.
Ed

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

No nothing like that. When I removed the fuel line it wasn't pumping gas. Let it sit then it worked again then next quit working so I installed the spare pump I had and so far so good. I do have a new OEM pump coming but won't be here until next week

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

In reference to this post about a possible electrical issue the reason I believe that is because I am on my 3rd fuel pump and the others were replaced because it was thought they burned out. So I replaced the OEM which I thought was bad initially but at 1st was able to take it out tap on it got it working then put it back in. A short time later it goes out again only this time I decided to go with the aftermarket pump suggested by other members of the group so I purchased 2. A week ago the aftermarket pump quits and like the OEM after a bit of time sitting starts working again but then quits again. So pump number 3 is in and still working for now with a new OEM pump being delivered this week. Here's the strange part tonight I decided to check the original OEM pump (I don't throw things out) and not surprisingly it's working. So back to my initial theory is it possible that something is causing an intermittent failure in these pumps causing them to act like they've burnt out? Could there be an issue with the computer causing the failure? I apologize for the long posts but I truly believe something is causing this to happen. I'd appreciate any advice suggestions anything as I don't want to end up strnaded somewhere

Thank you

Joe

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Swagonmaster
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Swagonmaster »

It is most likely that none of the pumps are really bad. After that many different pumps I would be checking either power or ground supply as that could very easily be intermittent. Start with pin connectors that may not be tight and work up from there.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

Ok thanks. It's really strange that when they go out it takes several hours for them to work again. The 2nd time the OEM pump went bad I just ASSumed it needed to be replaced and never tested it again until a couple days ago and it is working. It's definitely intermittent and I never know when or if it will happen again. That's why the post was so long trying to explain the course of events to get suggestions and opinions. I guess I need to start taking it apart and doing as you suggested and check all my connections thanks again for you reply

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Swagonmaster
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Swagonmaster »

If your referring to working on the bike that might be expected. If the problem is caused by a poor connection it will quit after heat has built up as the resistance of a marginal meeting of the metal pins isn't enough to dissipate it.The female connector will expand from the heat and contact is kaput
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!

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Swagonmaster
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Swagonmaster »

If you can get the pump to malfunction without too much trouble take a volt meter and check the voltage available at the fuel pump wire terminal. That will tell you if a lack of electrons is the issue. This needs to be done with everything on where the pump should be running, this would show up a pump that is needing more juice than it's getting. Btw, it would be better not to use a test light for this as it doesn't take much voltage to power the small light bulb and it might in effect lie to you since there might still be some voltage passed through even a poor connection that's not enough to power the higher draw fuel pump. If you are seeing essentially battery voltage then put the test probe on the ground side of the pump, there shouldn't be any voltage showing there and if there is that means that the ground is no good somewhere on that line.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

Ok I have a Fluke multimeter and I have a probe tester still trying to figure out how to use it lol. At this time I have my 2nd aftermarket fuel pump installed and it hasn't failed yet. So I have the OEM and AirTex pumps that failed but nw work. I can reattach the wires to the original OEM Pump and install and see if that will fail again which would be more than likely the best pump to use for this test. I also have a brand new OEM Pump but I'm not going to install that yet until I determine if there is actually an issue. Been to hot here to work on it I usually wait to night time when it's cooler my garage is unbearably hot

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Swagonmaster
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Swagonmaster »

Texas in September? Oh yeah, we lived in Dallas till the late '80s so I know what your dealing with. On the pump, one of the folks that have had to replace theirs might comment for sure but if it's one that is cooled and lubricated by the fuel as a lot of them are it will be destroyed by being run dry for more than a few seconds. You could run it if you run a hose from and back to a can of fuel though.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

it's going to be a bit more work but I think i'll just pull the current pump out and put the original back in this way everything is connected as it should and might provide better test results. It doesn't take but a few minutes to swap the pumps out anyhow. I'm about 50 miles south of Houston and the humidity really makes it unbearable. We lived in Lago Vista on Lake Travis for a few years and it wasn't as humid there makes a huge difference

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bellboy40
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by bellboy40 »

Swagonmaster wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:48 pm
Texas in September? Oh yeah, we lived in Dallas till the late '80s so I know what your dealing with. On the pump, one of the folks that have had to replace theirs might comment for sure but if it's one that is cooled and lubricated by the fuel as a lot of them are it will be destroyed by being run dry for more than a few seconds. You could run it if you run a hose from and back to a can of fuel though.
It would probably be better to run it submerged in the fuel to keep it cool. They are submerged in the gas tank. I suspect part of the trouble with some of the pumps failing might be running the gas down too low and the pump gets hot. Just my opinion... might be wrong.

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

So before I swap out the OEM pump I took the seat off and checked the voltage at the battery 14.04 volts then at the fuel pump 13.70 volts. Not sure if that's a big issue but for now it's still to hot out there to swap them out

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Swagonmaster
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Swagonmaster »

That's why I said to look for "sort of" battery voltage, there is always a difference but you don't expect to see 14 at the battery and 12 at the pump.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

it was 13.70 volts at them pump

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Swagonmaster
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by Swagonmaster »

Plenty enough to run the pump.
Try to learn from the mistakes of others..... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!

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754
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1978 CB750 Supersport

Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by 754 »

Also keep in mind (if my memory serves correct) the fuel pump does not begin to flow fuel until you push the starter button. Once the the engine is running and you let the button go the pump stays running. There may be an issue in the handle bar control. It is know that these bikes can develop loose contacts in the right hand switchgear.

Hope this helps you figure out your issue.

Travis
1992 Goldwing Gl1500 Interstate

1978 CB750 Supersport

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JPochron
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Re: Possible Underlying Electrical Issue

Post by JPochron »

Travis thank you but the entire switch assembly has been replaced with a new 1



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