SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU


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XJSRider
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SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »



Front brake line, Front master to Front Right Caliper. This is the Randakk SS line. Banjo fitting on both ends, no funny business with connections to brake tubes. I saved the easiest for last, or so I thought.

I cannot get the banjo fittings to land on the caliper/master unless I twist the line about 180 degrees. See pics.

Connection at master cylinder
Connection at master cylinder


Connection at caliper
Connection at caliper

I matched the routing of the original cable. I kept everything loose so I could twist the cable without anything binding. I tried turning the cable around. It seems like it is off by 180 degrees! Did I get a defective cable?

I'll try calling Randakk and see what he says in the morning. Bummer.



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Charlie1Horse
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by Charlie1Horse »

Try taking the other end loose and Turn the whole line 180 degrees. That should help.
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by WingAdmin »

It's a real shame that they manufacture those things without much care for how the angled banjo fittings are rotated. It seems to be a crapshoot whether they fit or not, and I've tried them from multiple manufacturers.

Sometimes if it's long enough, I can get it twisted enough that it will fit. Other times I gave up and got a replacement.

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

Some manufactures (Galfer) use a connection that lets you twist the banjo. The fitting looks a bit different than Randakk's hoses. They should come oriented the correct way if it is an OEM replacement!

Randakk's gets the lines made by a company called Paragon. On their site they have a section about "clocking" when ordering custom hoses:

https://www.paragonperformance.com/Moto ... n-Clocking

So it appears that these things should not just be pressed in at random by the manufacturer.

Randakk's reached out to me today and asked me to confirm the clocking of my hose to see if they got a bad batch so that is the next step. Was hoping to test ride this thing this weekend doubt that will happen now. Bummer.

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blupupher
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by blupupher »

XJSRider wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:01 pm
... Was hoping to test ride this thing this weekend doubt that will happen now. Bummer.
Well, you still have the rear and left front brake, right... :mrgreen:
1994 GL1500 Goldwing SE

XJSRider
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

Randakk apparently had a bad batch of lines. My front line was clocked 12/3 which I guess is not correct. No ETA at this point. Mega Bummer.

Oh and riding without right front brake... Did it to get vin verification as bike was getting torn down. Yeah, it's fine... until you need to stop while going downhill and you end up a bit off balance and need to put your right foot down instead of your left... that is a problem. Almost stained my underwear on that one.

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blupupher
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by blupupher »

XJSRider wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:46 am
Randakk apparently had a bad batch of lines. My front line was clocked 12/3 which I guess is not correct. No ETA at this point. Mega Bummer.

Oh and riding without right front brake... Did it to get vin verification as bike was getting torn down. Yeah, it's fine... until you need to stop while going downhill and you end up a bit off balance and need to put your right foot down instead of your left... that is a problem. Almost stained my underwear on that one.
Well that sucks. Do you still have the old line?

And I was joking about riding without the handbrake (although a short test drive is possible).
1994 GL1500 Goldwing SE

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

No, unfortunately I cut it out

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

I spoke with Paragon who is the supplier to Randakk and they told me that 12x3 clocking is correct per their build sheet so something funny is going on. They said that they have had several people complain about fitment. I think correct clocking should be 12x9. Has anyone installed these hoses recently, any thoughts?

Man I really wish I still had an unmolested stock hose so I could check stock clocking.

Paragon offered to build a new one for me and send it direct, need to get Randakk's blessing. Tonight I am going to put the hose in a vice and twist the banjo on one end to get it to match 12x9 clocking and test fit it.

If 12x9 IS the correct clocking then lots of people have been twisting the $h#t out of their lines which is no Bueno. Or maybe 12x3 IS correct and I am a chump (again, see over driven wheel bearings).

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by MikeB »

Maybe it's just me but would it fit if you turned the assembly 180 degrees like the inset picture?


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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

Mike- no unfortunately not. It messes up the fitting on the other end.

I did put the hose in a vise and rotate the banjo on one end 180 degrees and it fits perfectly.

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Charlie1Horse
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by Charlie1Horse »

If it has the same size banjo fitting on both ends, how about turning it around end for end and trying it again. Just a thought...
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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

Front to back, back to front, its all the same. I always appreciate a good idiot check so I actually tried it again lol.

The hose has 2 same sized banjo fittings both angled at about 45 degrees, but not aligned with each other.

Imagine holding one end of the hose, close to your face and in your left hand. Your right hand is holding the other end of the hose, stretched out and away from you. Look down the hose and spin it until the banjo closest to you is bent up 12 o'clock. The one farther away in your right hand would face 3 o'clock.

Swap ends of the hose between your hands (turn the hose around) and "reclock" it and if the end closest to you is at 12 the other end is still at 3.

If you spin the hose 180 degrees the connection at the master will work but the connection at the caliper gets messed up in the process, now IT is off by 180.

The only fix is to spin one banjo (within the hose) 180 so the 45 bend faces the other way. Then it works (no matter which way the hose is facing!) and fits great. Spinning the one banjo 180 takes you from 3 o'clock to 9... I really think they just made the damn thing wrong and the correct clocking is 12x9 and not 12x3.

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by XJSRider »

The replacement line came from Paragon last night and no surprise it fits perfectly with the 12x9 clocking.

I had another issue with one of the rear lines, last line that goes from hard pipe to rear caliper. The angle on the banjo fitting on the new line is 45 degrees. Stock is closer to maybe 10-15. This creates a very tight bend radius in the brake hose by the caliper fitting. I addressed it by making a bracket to hold part of the line that attaches to the swingarm higher up to avoid the tight bend.

For the money spent on these lines I am not happy. The extra markup on Randakk's end should have ensured proper fitment. Even the clutch line was wonky, the slave side connects with a banjo fitting but the line came with a fitting to connect to hard pipe and an adapter... why should I need an adapter on a brand new "model specific" line? It seems like the added connection is just an opportunity for failure. To be fair, It could be that by having this "extra" connection the issue of clocking the fitting goes away and gives you some flexibility on routing the hose.

Randakk was a bit cheaper than Galfer mostly due to shipping and tax, but no excuse for wrong clocking when the product has been out for 15 years and no changes. Crazy to think that so many riders have these installed with a twist in the front and a way too tight bend in the back. The quality of the lines in terms of fabrication seems to be great and Sam over at Paragon was awesome to work with and very knowledgeable.

Honestly for anyone replacing their brake lines: I would recommend removing the stock hoses and then check out paragon, talk to Sam, provide him with the measurements and clocking you need and have them make a set for you. It will be cheaper and correct, win win. You will be down a bit longer but it will be right.

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by minimac »

Good information. Thanks.

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Re: SS Brake Line Install - SNAFU

Post by Solo So Long »

Glad they took care of that for you, and so quickly.

ATTABOY, Paragon!



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