Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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ct1500
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by ct1500 »



LeYak wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:06 pm
For a while, I was considering whether this could be an ignition thing, but then I should not have lean-looking plugs, right?
Beside the occasional high tension spark plug lead the 1500 ignition systems are pretty much bullet-proof. A problem with the ignition system would not cause the idle mixture to go lean which you observed/verified with the 200RPM increase.


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754
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Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 Interstate

1978 CB750 Supersport

Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by 754 »

Here is the video of my bike before I replaced the fuel pump. It was very flat, had no low end torque. That hiss and the flutter slides went away with the pump also. I know the bike was idling high I still had the "choke" (fuel enrichment on) but, that had no effect on the issues it was having.



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1992 Goldwing Gl1500 Interstate

1978 CB750 Supersport

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wingdings
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by wingdings »

IF YOU CAN GET THE BUGGERS OFF THE BIKE - Then consider Randakk's Approved Honda Carb Rebuilder Program. Here is a link to look at - https://www.randakks.com/randakks-own-g ... ing%2F1989

Exclusive proprietary item and world's best kit!
The GL1500 Master Carb Overhaul Kit includes everything you need (and nothing you don't!) for a comprehensive carb overhaul. These carbs are quite simple and very easy to overhaul. The most difficult part is removal and re-installation of the body "Tupperware," etc. to get to them!

If you've studied Honda's parts fiches for each model year, you'll discover that Honda made many mistakes, duplications, omissions and outright illogical content decisions in their coverage of carb repair "packing sets" for the GL1500. One example: the only way to get the necessary o-rings for the accelerator pump discharge tube from Honda is to buy a whole new accelerator pump discharge tube! Aftermarket repair kits suffer from all these problems.

This Master Kit avoids these issues. You will have all the expendable parts you need to do a thorough, comprehensive overhaul.

You won't find this available anywhere else. Sourced for the best available parts from 3 continents and combined them in a unique combination that represents real value. Kit is appropriate for any 1988 - 2000 GL1500 with original carbs.

The round o-rings in each Master Kit is made of Viton rather than ordinary nitrile (Buna-N) as found in other aftermarket carb kits. Viton is superior to nitrile in terms of:

Heat tolerance (400 degrees F vs. 250 degrees F)
Compression set
Permeation
Did you know that one good case of severe engine overheating can ruin the carb o-rings found in ordinary kits? My o-rings are the best available!

O-ring sizes in this kit are precise. They're equivalent to the exact sizes specified by Honda for each fitment. Not "close-enough" sizes as in many aftermarket kits.



Contents of Randakk's GL1500 Master Carb Overhaul Kit(?



Easy install once you get to this point!

Unlike ordinary aftermarket kits, each Randakk kit provides everything listed for both carbs + other items required for splitting and re-joining the carbs. Included: rebuild kit for the accelerator pump.

Only the highest quality items are included. Thoroughly tested and represents the best value available in the market. You will need everything in this kit to do a proper overhaul of your carbs.

Here's what you get:

Viton O-rings:

2 - fuel (idle) mixture screw (2.8 x 1.1 mm)
2 - float bowl drain screw (4.3 x 1.3 mm)
2 - air cleaner base seal oring (above air horn...94.84 x 3.53 mm)
Accelerator Pump O-rings - install with accelerator pump on right carb (supplied in all kits)

2 - accelerator pump fuel pipe (3.8 x 2.0 mm)
1 - accelerator pump passage at right float bowl (2.8 x 1.9 mm).
Jet Holder O-rings - install at "jet holder" inside most '92 and later carbs only (but supplied in all kits)

2 - slow jet (2.8 x 1.3 mm)
2 - primary main jet (2.8 x 1.3 mm)
2 - secondary emulsion tube (6.0 x 1.3 mm) ...mounts under washer on emulsion tube that secures holder.
Float Bowl Gaskets - 2 of each:

Constructed of superior Viton material to resist the components of modern gasoline.
Miscellaneous Parts:

2 Intake chamber seals (below air horn)
1 accelerator pump overhaul kit with rubber bellows (omitted by some suppliers)
2 idle mixture screw washers
1 mm cotter pins - 7 supplied (simple item, but hard to find elsewhere)
Master Kit includes all needed o-rings including the 3 "jet holder" orings inside later carbs.

Note: No jets, needles or other calibrated parts are supplied. These can normally be cleaned and reused. If you decide you need any calibrated "hard" parts, spring for the genuine Honda bits. In most cases, these are readily available from Honda.

No float valve/seat assemblies in this kit. Many aftermarket rebuild kits include float valve/seat assemblies of dubious quality. Previously, there were problems with these aftermarket items. Most related to the aftermarket float needles being incorrectly sized (too short) resulting in unreliable (or nonexistent) fuel shutoff. The rubber tips and seats on the OEM item will last nearly forever and can usually be cleaned and reused. If you decide to reuse your existing float assemblies, be sure to remove and clean the small fuel strainer beneath the float seat! This also helps us to keep cost down and give you a choice on what to buy if you think new ones are needed.

If you need new float valve/seat assemblies, you can buy the OEM item. You'll also get new fuel inlet screens (the plastic strainers installed below each float valve).

Considerable skill is required to install this (29 piece) high quality kit correctly. Since Randakk's cannot control this important variable, there is no warranty. Rest assured that they are of the highest quality materials and workmanship. Each kit has been carefully packed and inspected to ensure that all items are included.

No fuel filter is included but it would be a crime to not take prudent measures to ensure a pure fuel supply! Randakk's recommends OEM Honda filter as a high quality replacement unit.

Warning: Please open the package very carefully when it arrives. Many of the parts are very small so take appropriate precautions. If you chose to open the package in the dark over your gravel driveway, after 1 or 12 beers, please don't later complain that you are a "few o-rings short." Seriously, do be careful when you open the package!

Not sure can handle your own rebuild? Then consider Randakk's Approved Honda Carb Rebuilder Program.

To read more reviews on this and other products visit our Review Site, http://www.randakksreviews.com

It could be that someone has rebuilt the carbs before and used a bad rebuild kit there is a lot of **** kits out there on the market does it look like they have been pulled apart before ?? .

A good test for a vac leak is to spray damp start around where you think the leak maybe see vids -



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LeYak
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Location: Nederland
Motorcycle: 1994 GL1500 Aspencade, 1995 VFR750, 2013 Honda MSX125, 2013 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by LeYak »

Thanks Wingdings, that's a great looking kit, if only for those fragile cotter pins! I think I only have half of those left, either in number or because they broke in half.
I've had the carbs off before, and it is now actually not that difficult thanks to new rubber boots. It's all the tubes and cables that make it a bit of a PITA, mainly on reinstallation. I've replaced most of those rubbers and o-rings when I had the carbs off last time, but as Randakk indicates, my kits did not include the o-rings for the accelarator pump valve (because Honda indeed omits them and they were also not in the kit for the accelarator pump diaphragmn replacement) and the 'intake chamber seals'. So basically, apart from those, I've replaced them all. I think there's a dirt bike shop in the area, they might have the O-rings for the accelarator pump separately, assuming it's a bit of a standard size. Pity I'll have to take the new rubbers out again now for the carb clean.. :mrgreen:

I say that because: the adjusted/replaced pilot screws worked! Well, they worked a tiny little bit :lol: so basically as predicted by you wise internet peeps. So I did that test ride today, to a friend who had a carbtune lying around. Synced the carbs and there was indeed noticable improvement. From a standstill, it was still misery (albeit a bit less), but the fluttering and hesitation on the go were much less pronounced between 2-3k rpm. Still there sometimes at 2k, but almost gone above 2.5k. It's as if the problem is now only occuring in a lower rev range. So something is working a bit more as intended. But yeah, I'm still running very lean there (as evidenced by another cardboard in front of air intake test).

So the time has indeed come to give in to the clean. Carbs are coming back off and they are going swimming! They'll be getting new slow jets too.
I want to already thank all of you for your effort and advice. I may not be taking the most efficicent route to a well-running bike, but I sure have already learned a lot (I am not a trained mechanic after all)! My other bikes are dead simple in comparison to this one.

Oh, and I have not forgotten about the fuel pump possibly being too weak, but given the test results I've gotten, my best bet is probably on the carbs now. If that also fails, I know where to look next ;)
Last edited by LeYak on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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DenverWinger
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by DenverWinger »

Have you checked the vacuum lines under the rubber mat? With the carbs off it would be a good time to do that. There's one with a manufactured 90 degree bend that's notorious for developing a leak right in the bend. This one usually results in idle RPM "hunting", but there's other lines down there, too.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
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LeYak
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by LeYak »

DenverWinger wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:45 am
Have you checked the vacuum lines under the rubber mat? With the carbs off it would be a good time to do that. There's one with a manufactured 90 degree bend that's notorious for developing a leak right in the bend. This one usually results in idle RPM "hunting", but there's other lines down there, too.
Yep, that was my first idea because when I got the bike it had a surging idle and rpm would increase when spraying some brake cleaner under the rubber mat. Turned out to be a loose carb boot, but I changed almost all of the vac lines down there while I had the carbs off (I included an overview in my original post, I replaced the ones indicated in blue plus the number 11 tubes that go from the IASA check valve to the intake manifolds). That solved the surging/hunting idle, but that was apparently not my only issue :roll: . I'll get her rolling good in the end!

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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by LeYak »

754 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:32 pm
Here is the video of my bike before I replaced the fuel pump. It was very flat, had no low end torque. That hiss and the flutter slides went away with the pump also. I know the bike was idling high I still had the "choke" (fuel enrichment on) but, that had no effect on the issues it was having.



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Good, clear video, thanks! The symptoms while riding sound similar, but I have never seen my slides move/flutter at constant throttle like yours, nor are they as erratic in their movement (at least in neutral when I can see them).
First thing on the planning is cleaning carbs again now and installing new slow jets. Let's see if that fixes it. If not, I'm doing more severe pressure tests for the pump to see if it can pump the fuel far upwards.

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wingdings
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by wingdings »

have a gander at these links - there fella - search.php?author_id=73988&sr=posts

This is a follow up to a previous post i did asking about rejetting and what was the result. I tore my carbs out today ( second time in a week) and installed #60 pilot jets and #160 main jets. This is for a 1989 gl1500. What a difference in power delivery. The off idle hesitation is gone and the bik...

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wingdings
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by wingdings »

if it still keeps happening - you try a trigger wheel to advance the timing a little !!! viewtopic.php?t=36240

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/joeswheel.htm

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ct1500
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by ct1500 »

LeYak wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:05 am
Yep, that was my first idea because when I got the bike it had a surging idle and rpm would increase when spraying some brake cleaner under the rubber mat. Turned out to be a loose carb boot, but I changed almost all of the vac lines down there while I had the carbs off (I included an overview in my original post, I replaced the ones indicated in blue plus the number 11 tubes that go from the IASA check valve to the intake manifolds). That solved the surging/hunting idle, but that was apparently not my only issue :roll: . I'll get her rolling good in the end!
When using carb clean-brake clean to locate vacuum leaks it is very easy to saturate the surrounding air which then gets sucked into the carb intake air stream giving erroneous results. Normal fuel pump pressure for an OEM equipped 1500 is 1.5PSI, which is a more insightful way of testing the pump output capability than the free flow test (the fuel pump is never exposed to free unrestricted flow in real usage). The 1500 fuel pump will more often than not die a slow death (intermittent failure) cutting out at speed and the only real way to confirm if this is happening in real time is to have a gauge teed into the fuel line. :D
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

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LeYak
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Re: Help me diagnose my hesitation (video evidence included)

Post by LeYak »

ct1500 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:47 pm
Normal fuel pump pressure for an OEM equipped 1500 is 1.5PSI, which is a more insightful way of testing the pump output capability than the free flow test (the fuel pump is never exposed to free unrestricted flow in real usage). The 1500 fuel pump will more often than not die a slow death (intermittent failure) cutting out at speed and the only real way to confirm if this is happening in real time is to have a gauge teed into the fuel line. :D
So what I hear you saying is I better hope it's the carbs :lol:



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