my bike is a pogo stick


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »



Hi All! Haven't checked in for a long while been super busy with some work transitions.I have an ongoing problem that has plagued me ever since I have owned my '88 wing. The front of my bike bounces like a pogo stick over all surfaces from 25mph to 35mph and I cannot get rid of it nothing I have done has made even the slightest difference.
Purchased used with 40k on the odo approximately 10 years ago now have 138k. First thing I did was replace the tires and change the fork oil. Next I experimented with the fork oil weight several times with no change. Following year I got rid of the junk Kenda tires and installed E3s and Dynabeads no change then installed a Super Brace replaced front and rear wheel bearings made a jig to hold the wheels on the bench just as they would be mounted on the bike to check for out of round and true with a dial indicator everything was literally perfect to within .00001 (I thought that was pretty incredible engineering) still no fix. Next I added more beads thinking this would solve the problem nope. Fourth year was time for another set of E3s this time no beads balanced them myself with lead remarkable improvement in ride (I will never use beads again they should be outlawed) but still a pogostick. Five years ago took off my third set of E3s and had to go cheap installed a set of Shinkos replaced the rear shocks with Progressive air shocks replaced the front springs with Progressives replaced the fork bushings and seals checked the tubes for straightness and wear checked the legs for out of round and wear in the bore repacked and set the steering head bearings assembled everything by the book rechecked all torques with a different torque wrench still bounces like a freekin pogostick. This thing is driving me nuts I've had others ride it and look at it everyone is at a loss even my wife who doesn't often notice mechanical issues notices this a 25-30 mph. HELP!



User avatar
XJSRider
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:45 pm
Location: New Britain, CT
Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500A

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by XJSRider »

Hi,

Sorry for not using the correct term here... there is a widget that screws into the bottom of the fork, it is what the fork oil passes through when the forks move up and down. It creates a lot of resistance for the oil passing through which creates the dampening effect. I wonder if it is broken or incorrectly installed. Is it locked down? There is the anti-dive unit on the forks too but I have not played with it enough to know if it would effect your pogo problem.

PS surprised to hear your bad luck with the beads I've used them on many different bikes and have always had great luck with them.

User avatar
aj1500
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Savannah Ga
Motorcycle: 97 1500 SE
Motorvation II sidecar
Double Dark Side # 1522
Goodyear Fuel max 175/60 R16
PILOT ACTIV 130/70 18
USCA# 8913

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by aj1500 »

this is just a thought, jack up or put you bike on center stand and turn rear wheel by hand and see if you have any resistance at any point, if not crank it up put it in 2 or 3rd and holding front brake good start running it and see if there is any bouncing or binding of any kind. if you have something binding in the rear it can translate to the front. have you tried putting some air in the front forks just to see if that will effect it
like I said a shot in the dark

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

I think the widget you mean is the socket head screw the holds the led to the damper that's the only thing I can find that actually screws on everything else is held together with circlips. I have rebuilt the anti dive on both sides forgot to include that. My issue with the beads was I do a lot of city driving and they didn't work very well at low speeds also had the opportunity to talk to a couple of tire mfg reps at a trade show several years ago different tire companies and all three said the wouldn't warranty tire failures if they were installed with beads and when I took the tires with the bead off you could see where the rubber had been worn down on the inside. Of course this has been 10+ years ago things have changed since then.

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

I did try the running it up on the center stand and there is no issue at this time all though there was and issue last year with the final drive but I replaced the final drive and the pogo effect is still there.

User avatar
4given
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:19 pm
Location: danville/PA/
Motorcycle: 1996 honda goldwing aspencade GL1500
Contact:

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by 4given »

I’m not sure but I thing the anti dive was only on the left side on the early Wings

User avatar
XJSRider
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:45 pm
Location: New Britain, CT
Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500A

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by XJSRider »

That "widget" part:

https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon ... -fork-a-se

The "widget" is part 23 and it is held down to the bottom fork by screw 42. It being held down causes fork oil to flow through it.

If you tightened that screw (fork is upside down) without having something to Part 23 UP the screw would not thread into it and you would not get correct dampening... just a thought. Although I would think you'd be bouncing around at every speed if this was the case.

User avatar
XJSRider
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:45 pm
Location: New Britain, CT
Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500A

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by XJSRider »

re: beads damaging tires... I've heard this too, but have never seen it in real life. I change my own tires. I've always ridden sportier bikes with soft rubber that would only last a couple thousand miles, maybe it is different with radials that stay on a lot longer.

It is true that they don't balance at parking lot speeds but I wouldn't think tire balance would not be an issue until you get going quick enough for the beads to do their thing.

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

You are correct. part 23 is the main part of whole dampening assembly and if it were not attached it would create a multitude of problems the least of which would be the problem I'm having also if it were loose there would be a significant amount of fluid leaking. I have had the forks apart numerous times so I know the bolt isn't loose. I've had this problem for at least 10 years it isn't a dangerous problem it's just irritating and I'm on vacation this week so I thought I would research the problem and listen to others ideas and there is no bad idea so thank you. As for the Dyna beads I haven't tried them in my Seca turbo so I can't judge them in sport mode. When I took them out of the wing they had about 24k on them so that may be the difference.

User avatar
minimac
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:25 am
Location: Oswego, NY, Leesburg, Fl
Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500 Aspencade
2006 Yamaha Morphous
2011 Silverwing
Y̶a̶m̶a̶h̶a̶ ̶M̶a̶j̶e̶s̶t̶y̶
S̶u̶z̶u̶k̶i̶ ̶B̶u̶r̶g̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶E̶x̶e̶cutive

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by minimac »

I find it hard to believe ceramic balancing beads could/would damage a tire. I've run them for over eight years and have never experienced that happening. Metal beads/BBs, yes-but not ceramic beads.

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

Hey minimac thanks for the response. Have you ever noticed when changing tires all of the black dust accumulated with the beads? That's rubber from the inside of the tire. Also metal beads would tend to cause less damage than the ceramic beads because the ceramic is harder than metal. The damage is really insignificant and I personally don't think it's a problem and the last time I spoke to those tire reps was at least 10 years ago so things have probably changed a lot since then. I just didn't care for the feel of them at low speed.

User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1405
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by ct1500 »

wingthing88 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:40 am
Fourth year was time for another set of E3s this time no beads balanced them myself with lead remarkable improvement in ride
Time to get a little creative here. :ugeek: Back in the day we could on-car spin balance tires in troublesome cases. You would remove hub cap and snap lock a manually operated balance disc onto the wheel which allowed the Front End (alignment, front suspension and tire) guy to dial in or out a weight number and rotate that weight amount to any given point around the wheel. This was done with wheel jacked up off the ground after engaging an electric motor to spin the tire up to speed. With one hand on the fender to feel for vibration the mechanic would dial in the weight amount theoretically balancing all rotating parts including brake drums, axles and rotors. It had a pointer and the weight amount where the normal lead weight would be placed. I threw that out there for a little history where I come from. ;) Easy for me to say as I have electric motors and gas engines and with some creativity could spin that installed tire and wheel up to speed while off the ground to see if something else is going on.
For the short answer have it spin balanced at the local MC shop.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

Funny thing. I have 30+ years as an ASE master tech and actually had one of those setups and portable alignment equipment and knew how to use both. I tried selling them and no one wanted them so I tried donating them no one wanted to waste the gas to come get them so I left them out on the street for the scrap man to have that was about 2 months before I bought this bike. I sure wish I had that balancer back now lol. I have had shops spin balance the tires to no avail. Balance of the tires doesn't seem to have any affect it has always remained consistent from starting out at 25 mph and goes away at exactly 34 mph (measured with gps). Sadly I don't have any engines or motors laying around although I do have an old alternator laying around I might be able to rewire into a motor or maybe I could tell my wife and she would let me get a new bike.Yeah that's not gonna happen.

User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1405
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by ct1500 »

If it has been that consistent and only under acceleration how about some kind of engine miss or skip going on which would surely give you that sensation? Does it behave exactly the same in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear from 25 to 34MPH? If not as pronounced in fifth gear I would be leaning towards the engine.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

User avatar
thebruce
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:12 pm
Location: Boundary Country, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1991 GL1500SE Anniversary Edition #54

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by thebruce »

Depending on your definition of exactly how your pogo stick rides, I have a theory...

The valving in the front forks of these babies isn't all that refined.

I find on mine that there is a range of speed (30-50km/h) where I can feel every little imperfection, crack, dog or cat that I run over on the road. The bars kind of shake up and down without any pattern and I know for damn sure my tire isn't that far out of balance or round.

I have a feeling it has to do with the heavier fork oil that I run, but I also expect it has to do with the transition between low and high speed valving in the forks.

The forks just aren't that good, so there is a speed you reach where it should be further into high speed valving but is sticking to low speed, thus the feeling all the little wows and wobbles in the asphault.

I began to notice this effect as soon as I put in heavier fork oil, but I wouldn't go back to the wet-noodle front end that was on the bike when I got it for anything less than an 1800... and then I'd probably firm that one up too.
It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you have your knees to the breeze.

Crusty1
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:57 am
Location: Kansas
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500SE
2007 ST1300A ABS

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by Crusty1 »

wingthing88 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:40 am
First thing I did was replace the tires and change the fork oil.
What method are you using to change the fork oil? Did you remove the springs dampers from the fork tubes? When you re assemble them, set the fluid level and before installing the spring test the dampers by pumping the fork up an down. It should have some amount of resistance moving down (compression) and 2-3 times the resistance moving up (rebound). Just FYI the anti dive only stiffens the compression under braking. If the anti dive valve is stuck closed the ride would be very hard and harsh. Likely it would not cause bouncing.

User avatar
Rednaxs60
Posts: 2377
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by Rednaxs60 »

This is interesting. Have read all the posts. You've done a lot of work. Don't quite understand the pogo stick effect.

Steering head bearings will not make the front into a pogo stick, may get a shimmy. The tires are balanced and if you are going to have an issue it generally will come to light at 60 MPH, shake like all get out. Low speed maneuvering, beads or otherwise below 30 MPH should not be an issue. Brings me to the pogo stick issue. I would have to go with the forks as the culprit from what I have read. Reminds me of vehicles that go down the highway with worn out shocks. Have you tried compressing the front end while the bike is stationary? Does it react as you would expect? You don't mention the rear of the bike. If the front end is a pogo stick what is happening in the rear? If the front goes up/down there should be a reaction from the rear of the bike. Conversely, the back end can affect the front, lots of weight being transferred. What is the condition of the rear shock and air shock?

A few more thoughts/questions regarding your issue.

Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

ct1500: Engine RPM and gear doesn't seem to make a difference. It will do this in every gear, clutch engaged or disengaged and in neutral (don't think I'll try reverse). Acceleration and deceleration or no load on the drive train.

Crusty1: The first time I changed the fork oil I had to borrow the tool to take out the springs I'm pretty fanatical about maintaining my vehicles and like to change the fork oil yearly so while I had the caps of I drilled and tapped them to install pipe plugs so now I don't have to take the caps off to change the oil I just remove the plugs. I have used both methods of changing oil measuring and volume. I also experimented with different volumes starting out with 1 oz. and adding an ounce at a time exceeding the recommended amount. That was a fun and time consuming experiment.

Rednaxs60: It doesn't act like worn out shocks on a car it's not that type of bounce. The rear isn't affected noticeably the rear shocks are the Progressive 413 or 415 I don't remember the number right now and it acts the same as with the oem. The front moves up and down with the same resistance of other bikes if I put the front end against a wall and bounce it. If I apply the front brake to bounce it you can feel the anti dive working. The pogo effect is like riding on an oval wheel assembly instead of round. And like I said I checked the front and rear wheels for true and round with and without the tire using a dial indicator.

Thebruce: I have often wondered if there may be a valving in the front forks but haven't investigated if there was an issue. I do prefer the lighter oils with my progressive fork springs it seems to provide the best handling and ride. The heavier fork oils do increase the road feel but also tends to decrease tire contact in rough turns I try and avoid dogs and cats but I do aim for chipmunks squirrels and coyotes. The coyotes in the neighborhood fear me. I think I will look into revalving the forks. Thanks

Everyone: Thank you so much for the responses. This thread has given me a lot of great ideas and I appreciate the exchange of ideas. The more the merrier.

User avatar
Rednaxs60
Posts: 2377
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Good information. My thoughts are definitely the front forks. The internals are not working as expected. The right (will check manual) fork has an oil lock, only one side has this, and there are rebound springs as well. If you have kept the OEM parts, I would go back to the beginning with the fork upgrade and start again. It's almost like the fluid movement inside the fork tubes is not working properly - no rebound or dampening. We are higher on the food chain, resistance is futile - Sci Fi fan, what can I say.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

Looking at the Clymer manual it appears that both sides have the oil lock and if the manual is wrong then that could be the problem because both of my forks have it. This also gives me an idea. It looks as though the internals are interchangeable. It's possible someone working on it at some point might have swapped them for some reason. The 1500I doesn't use the oil lock on the left fork. Just took a look at the Honda parts explosion on line and both sides use all the same parts.

User avatar
wingdings
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: mells , England, United Kingdom
Motorcycle: Honda Goldwing gl 1989

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingdings »

Is it a wobble type thing ?? my friends bike was the same - if it went over a cats eye in the road and he was letting rip on the throttle - the bike would wobble either the back end would shake !! or the front end would jump !! - Scared the crap out of me the first time - He spent weeks trying to figure it out - it finally came down to the tires - The guy he brought off - had it layed up for a few yrs and the back tire had a flat spot on it and the front wheel spindel was worn out !!! .. You would have never had know it to look at the bike it rode great until you went over a cats eye in the road and was two up riding too !! .

One thing you could look at also is the head stock bearings - They are one of the week spots on the wing because of the weight they carry they are often prone to working lose and do need to be checked for wear - replaced if needed if not replaced defo repacked and tighten up again - On my 89 k wing i rebuilt the whole Suspension from the ground upwards !! fitted progressive 416 rear shocks and progressive front fork springs in the front changed out the swing arm bearings too !!. fitted new tires - How old are the ones on your bike too !! on my wing they were 10yrs old !! It was defo OMG !! .

Take a look also at these thread links - with the same problem as yours !! - Should give you some good pointers too !! -

viewtopic.php?t=13963

viewtopic.php?t=21351

viewtopic.php?t=32357



Have a good look on the how too's - i did post a few of them myself -
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36897



Oh good luck too with it !! - I know it scared the crap out of me when it happened !! :o :o :o :o :o

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

It isn't a wobble and it is only a low speed so there is nothing scary or dangerous about it it's just irritating in rush hour traffic on the interstate and this has been going on for about 10 years so I've been through about 4 or 5 sets of tires I do 10 to 12k miles a year definitely not a tire issue I have experienced head shake at about 120 mph on the track (not on the wing lol) and it substantially increases the pucker factor like you wouldn't believe. As I said before I think I'm going to look into some valving mods if there are any out there. Thanks though

User avatar
Rednaxs60
Posts: 2377
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Looked at the '94 manual. Seems it's only the Aspencade and SE models that have one oil lock.

Looking into upgrading the front forks on my '95. Replaced the springs with Progressive when I bought it two years ago, but with direct replacement spring rate. Want to upgrade to a 1.0/1.1 spring rate, straight or progressive, probably won't notice a difference between a straight or progressive rate spring. Have looked at Race Tech gold valves - searching for a less expensive emulator valve, have the Race Tech gold valves installed in my '85 Limited Edition front forks as well as the Race Tech springs. Both bikes have 41 mm front forks, the weight of my '85 wet is supposed to be approximately 830 lbs, the 1500 not significantly more. The difference in price is quite substantial, approximately $150.00ish USD more for the 1500 than the 1200. Having mentioned this, the suspension on my 1200 is the best of the three bikes I have, also have a 2012 V-Strom DL1000 with upgraded suspension. To install the Race Tech Gold Valves you need to enlarge the existing holes in the lower pipe to approximately 1/2 inch and add two extra 1/2 inch holes. The valves need a large flow of oil to work properly. If you want the Cadillac version, Traxxion apparently has a system for the 1500. Had the Traxxion system installed on an 1800 I had, made a big difference.

Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

User avatar
wingdings
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: mells , England, United Kingdom
Motorcycle: Honda Goldwing gl 1989

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingdings »

Have a gender at this vid - the guy has the same make tyre's as you !! he changed three lots all where duffer 's !!

IT MAY BE YOUR TYRES ?? - JUST A THOUGHT HERE !! ?? - WATCH THE VIDS !! - THERE !!



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!


Honda Gold Wing Tire Pressure School



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!

User avatar
wingthing88
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1988 gl1500

Re: my bike is a pogo stick

Post by wingthing88 »

Hey Wingding. Thanks for the response. I like this guy and have watched several of his videos. This isn’t the same problem as mine. Mine is like an out of round wheel and I’ve had this same problem with different tire brands. I just put another new Shinko on Saturday and haven’t had time to test it out. When I get to ride I’ll see if it makes a difference. I don’t have high hopes lol.



Post Reply