88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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den458
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88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by den458 »



Getting back to working on my '88 GL1500 that sat a year. Currently, cranks great, plugs do spark, no ignition, suspected fuel delivery issue. Definitely at least a gallon of fresh fuel in the tank (I put in yesterday), I'm going to add a 2nd gallon. Pulled seat, then pulled the black rubber fuel hose off from the fuel output port on top of the fuel tank, connected a clear fuel line to that fuel output port running down to a catch bucket. Ignition switch ON, no fuel flows out the temporary fuel line into catch bucket. Hit the start button, engine cranks super well, still no fuel flow into my catch basin.

If I have fuel in tank, the pump should be filling my catch bucket, right? Not a drop.

I hear clicks, like relays energizing when I turn ignition switch ON. No humming sounds, even with gas cap removed

Good with multimeter, decent reading a schematic if I had one, don't have a manual, think I can chase this with a little coaching.

Simply, what is the path for fuel pump power & ground from the battery? Couple relays &/or a couple fuses does it?

It is either a fuel pump power issue, or a failed pump, what else could it be?

If there is a fuel system electrical troubleshooting guide for my '88, please point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, Den.



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DenverWinger
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by DenverWinger »

Try this - disconnect the power line to the fuel pump, and run a jumper wire from battery pos terminal to the pump. If pump is good it should start to fill your catch bucket.

Or you can measure voltage at this connection while cranking the engine.

If I'm not mistaken I think the pump on an '88 is supposed to run a second or two when you first switch the key to "on". Some Guru will come along and correct me, though... :lol:
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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den458
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by den458 »

I removed the BLACK & WHITE connectors powering the pump, then jumpered battery directly to the pump: got no sounds or pumping.

Removed the jumpers, reconnected the BLACK & WHITE connections, monitored the voltage at those terminals.
Measured 11.4 volts with ignition switch ON, I think due to the headlight load on the battery, seems normal to me.
Hit the start button, engine cranks great.... pump is NOT pumping.

So, that pump should definitely be running, powered directly by full battery, or indirectly on 11.4 volts loaded battery, right?

Any doubt my fuel pump has failed?

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bluthundr31
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by bluthundr31 »

The '88 and '89 models have a Fuel Pump Relay (under the truck near the BAS sensor) which will "prime" the fuel pump/fuel circuit for a 1-2 second spurt of fuel as soon as you turn the key to the ON position. The fuel pump relay could be bad, , but your troubleshooting of the pump by disconnecting the power wire and jumping that connector directly to the positive side of the battery should have made the pump work. Since the pump didn't fire up properly, , I believe that the fuel pump needs to be replaced. Just my .02 cents, , ,

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ct1500
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by ct1500 »

On the fuel pump cover the forward most insulated terminal is for fuel pump power and is a Blk/Blu wire (black connector). Wht/Blu wire is the low fuel sensor and is the rearward insulated terminal and will be hot at all times with key ON. Green wire on cover is ground for both circuits. The pump should run when forward terminal is supplied with 12V+.
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den458
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by den458 »

Thanks CT1500 for that clarifying guidance. I'm sure I'm NOW jumpering the right points.

Pump power: My forward-most, black-colored insulated connector, next to the engraved "B" on the fuel tank cover, goes electrically battery-positive (relative to GND) for only about 1 second when the ignition switch is ON. It is continuously HOT as long as the start button is depressed (my engine cranking), until released (bike won't start, no fuel yet).

The rearward, white-colored insulated connector next to the engraved "W" is always electrically HOT when the ignition switch is ON.

There is a good chassis ground at the green-wire, yellow-colored insulated connector.

Removing the wiring harness black-colored connector from the forward-most connector, then wiring my battery jumpers directly to that connector + GND, my pump still does NOT pump or make a sound. I'm going to remove it from the tank, don't know what else to do. Browsing now for replacement pump that functionally duplicates what I have.

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ct1500
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by ct1500 »

Absent a broken wire under the cover your fuel pump is inop. with the electrical acting as it should. The aftermarket pumps folks use are hit or miss as to longevity.
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MikeB
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by MikeB »

This looks like a possible source for you:
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/de ... 20Products
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/184,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/13000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
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Retired in Tacoma, WA

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bluthundr31
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by bluthundr31 »

A few of us who've needed to replace old (25-30 yr old) fuel pumps have gone with the NAPA/Carter #P72190 which has worked well. A significant money savings over some others was a welcome benefit. Use the "search" feature for "aftermarket fuel pump" or something like that and you'll find many great ideas and good information.

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DenverWinger
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by DenverWinger »

Could try Pulling your car up next to the bike and string wires between the car and the bike, Car battery negative to Bike battery positive.

Disconnect the bike wiring from the fuel pump, and then with a wire from the car battery positive terminal touch that to the pump terminal for a few seconds. This will be 24 volts. If the motor in the pump has a "stuck" armature, this may be enough impetus to unstick it and make it spin again.

Don't leave 24 volts connected to the pump for very long. If this trick works, it may run again on the normal 12 volts.

Can't hurt anything to try since we've already determined the problem is in the pump.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

den458
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by den458 »

Just FYI, I did remove the pump. Wasn't pretty, a bit rusty & corroded-looking. No broken wires. After it was sufficiently dry, I tried connecting 12V directly to the pump internal wiring (well away from the gas tank), hoping that terminal corrosion could be overcome by direct connection... but, no luck, pump ignored my efforts. Didn't try any higher voltage, but I have a friend with a variable DC power supply, I may give that a try. Was put-off by the OEM replacement costs. I did order a relatively inexpensive pump advertised to be a solution with minor modifications, I'll get back with results when I have them. Thanks for help so far.

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bluthundr31
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by bluthundr31 »

Because almost every aftermarket pump will give excessive gpm's and higher pressure can cause other problems, , which pump are you planning on buying? Almost every pump make/model has been tried, , ,let us know so someone with the same pump could give you ideas or tips on how their conversion worked.

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MikeB
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by MikeB »

den458 wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:54 am
Just FYI, I did remove the pump. Wasn't pretty, a bit rusty & corroded-looking. No broken wires. After it was sufficiently dry, I tried connecting 12V directly to the pump internal wiring (well away from the gas tank), hoping that terminal corrosion could be overcome by direct connection... but, no luck, pump ignored my efforts. Didn't try any higher voltage, but I have a friend with a variable DC power supply, I may give that a try. Was put-off by the OEM replacement costs. I did order a relatively inexpensive pump advertised to be a solution with minor modifications, I'll get back with results when I have them. Thanks for help so far.
I truly wish you luck. I have read so many posts of individuals that have tried replacing the pump with a substitute of some kind only to have it fail more than once. I think I may have heard of one success but do not remember what was used or how many times the pump had to be replaced to get a suitable set up.

When you think about it, the price of an OEM pump is less than the price of one new tire and it will last for many more miles than that one new tire. It will also be less hassle to replace that pump than any tire.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/184,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/13000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
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DenverWinger
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by DenverWinger »

Never had one of these pumps in my hand, so I have to ask - Does the 1500 pump motor run "wet" (motor itself is in gasoline)? Many in-tank pumps do. Could try soaking it fully submerged in vinegar, might free gummed up bearings etc....
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by WingAdmin »

DenverWinger wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:29 am
Never had one of these pumps in my hand, so I have to ask - Does the 1500 pump motor run "wet" (motor itself is in gasoline)? Many in-tank pumps do. Could try soaking it fully submerged in vinegar, might free gummed up bearings etc....
Yes, the fuel pump is down at the bottom of the tank:




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ct1500
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by ct1500 »

MikeB wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:04 am
I truly wish you luck. I have read so many posts of individuals that have tried replacing the pump with a substitute of some kind only to have it fail more than once. I think I may have heard of one success but do not remember what was used or how many times the pump had to be replaced to get a suitable set up.
Same here. My question to the OP is how many times would you like to change the pump and will it be acceptable for it to stop working in your travels. Virtually guaranteed to last for many years to come with OEM.
My personal opinion for the high failure rate is taking an aftermarket pump which was designed for vertical operation and installing horizontally. Hit or miss brother.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

den458
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by den458 »

Yes, I understand cutting the cost corner brings risk, I'll give it a try, risking little cost, will test it on the bench, live & learn.

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DenverWinger
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by DenverWinger »

By "Running Wet" I meant the pump motor internals (armature, bearings and all) of the motor running in fuel. Because if so, vinegar treatment may get it going if the motor bearings are gummed by old fuel.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

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MikeB
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Re: 88 fuel pump electrical troubleshooting

Post by MikeB »

MikeB wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:15 pm
This looks like a possible source for you:
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/de ... 20Products
Oh crap. I posted the wrong link. This is the one I should have posted. The pump assenbly is under $285, not the $175 pump I posted initially. That pump was not even for a Gold Wing. Sorry.
https://www.amazon.com/HONDA-16700-MAF- ... B00I87J1FC


Of course, there are other options too but none below $250.

https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/p/hon ... ppon-seiki

https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/p/hon ... ppon-seiki

https://www.servicehonda.com/oemparts/p ... ppon-seiki

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda ... 95d9605ce1


MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/184,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/13000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA

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