GL1500 SE start issue


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
Gar513
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Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500 SE

GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »



Hello I am new to the group and hope I’m asking this properly...


1993 GL1500 SE - I’m having an issue with the starter dragging on a normal start. Brand new AGM battery (340CCA), new start and reverse solenoids, new relays, all grounds are good, new starter, etc...

I can get it to start without hesitation (quick and easy) if I jump the solenoid directly...But if I use the start button, it’s very hesitant and drags the starter and won’t start. Start button has been cleaned.
Hit start button and headlight goes off... neutral light is on.... clutch handle held in for start...

Using a test light, strong light from battery to first solenoid...hit start button, strong light out of start solenoid running down to reverse solenoid...strong light into reverse solenoid, but weak light coming out to starter.... (I’ve tried this on 3 different solenoids)...but it does open the solenoid...it doesn’t make any sense.... I can’t find the leads to the multimeter for actual voltage readings at this moment...

Any ideas on what else to check for? It acts like it’s not enough power to go through both solenoids to make it strong to starter... and there’s no additional accessories...no radio, no CB, no extra lights, nothing extra it could need for power loss...

Could this be pointing more towards reverse or start resistors?

TIA


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newday777
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by newday777 »

Welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately you will need to get actual voltage readings, A test light in this type of problem doesn't tell the whole story.
Have you tried to remove the headlight relay to see if the starter has enough power difference? These bikes need 11- 11.5 volts to fire off properly. Short bursts of the starter only, no more than 2 seconds, then release button.
Gar513
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Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500 SE

Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

Voltage readings -

At the battery - 12.84 volts
Start solenoid/relay - 11.64 (in and out)
Reverse solenoid/relay - 11.63 in - 2.38 out (on 3 different solenoids) 2.38 at starter lug also.
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newday777
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

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1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by newday777 »

Volts at battery as you hit the starter button
Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

11.64 volts when pushing starter button.
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by terryt »

Try disconnecting the battery to solenoid and solenoid to starter wire and clean the terminals or try a replacement solenoid
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

Gar513 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:03 pm1993 GL1500 SE - I’m having an issue with the starter dragging on a normal start. Brand new AGM battery (340CCA), new start and reverse solenoids, new relays, all grounds are good, new starter, etc... I can get it to start without hesitation (quick and easy) if I jump the solenoid directly...But if I use the start button, it’s very hesitant and drags the starter and won’t start. Start button has been cleaned.
Hit start button and headlight goes off... neutral light is on.... clutch handle held in for start...
Welcome aboard. :)
Why the clutch pulled if in neutral, will it not even attempt to crank over with it out? Three relays? My guess is non OEM parts, link to what part you are using instead.
How long have you had this machine and how does it drive and run? Has it ever worked correctly while in your possession and what other work has been done previously?
When running does reverse work?
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Gar513
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Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500 SE

Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

Welcome aboard. :)
Why the clutch pulled if in neutral, will it not even attempt to crank over with it out?


It won’t try to start in neutral without clutch pulled in...however, I don’t know if that’s because it’s on center stand and side stand is up... good question, haven’t even tried this... side stand light does come on when it’s down...but I tucked it up while I have been working on it on center stand.

Neutral light does come on...when switching to reverse, reverse light does come on and neutral goes off.



Three relays? My guess is non OEM parts, link to what part you are using instead.

It had the existing start and reverse relays...I doubt they were original...however, I did purchase 2 more online (non Honda) and same outcome regardless of what combination I’ve tried...old and/or new relays... (solenoids...I understand they are relays, but many folks call them solenoids..so for common terming)



How long have you had this machine and how does it drive and run? Has it ever worked correctly while in your possession and what other work has been done previously?
When running does reverse work?


I’ve actually had it for about 3-4 weeks. It runs and drives really well, when i jump the relays to get it started.... it drove up on the trailer and a brief ride around my neighborhood... this issue was present when i purchased it..he showed me what he jumped to get it to start.

When it’s running, I can hit start button and it does run the starter... rear wheel is still on the ground so I didn’t try to see if it was pulling in reverse...

All (and I mean all) of the body parts were taken off for body work and paint and they gave up on it...so I was able to get it for $200 with title, as it was....32k miles...2 POs... I believe it became too much of a project for the PO...he was an older gentleman with mild disabilities and I think it was just too much for him to finish...

I am slowly working on getting it all pieced back together...however, while it was entirely apart, I wanted to make sure it started properly and was mechanically sound before taking trips beyond the neighborhood.

Other work that’s been done has been basic maintenance items (that I know of) ..oil changes, plugs, fork seals, gear oil, air filter, fuel filter...

I have put a new AGM battery in it, both solenoids/relays A&B, I picked up new relays for relay box and new fuses, and some bolts and pieces that were missing from where they pulled it apart and lost some things. I’ve cleaned most electrical contacts that I’ve read have been known failure issues...

This is my first Goldwing. I’ve had quite a few bikes over the years...several Hondas, yamahas, HDs...ranging from crotch rockets to cruisers to dirt bikes... but never a tourer...
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

Just a quick reply as I have to go but you have a problem in the start system if it won't crank over in neutral and if the reverse light is coming on with engine not running. Bad signals/wiring that is screwing up the B relay not allowing it to function properly.
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Erdeniz Umman »

Here is the solution that I have found five years ago, and have been still using the same lead acid battery without any problems.
In summary, after this modification you will see that if the engine can crank over then it will start.
https://www.goldwingfacts.com/threads/g ... ed.611705/
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

Some preliminary checks, with key on and reverse lever down (forward) you should have 12V at brn/wht and blk/wht of reverse lever switch. With handle up in reverse the blk/wht wire is not hot and power now goes to the wht/blu wire from the brn/wht. When raising lever you should hear the reverse relay switch click, it is located under the seat on the forward crossmember by the large fuse housing.




There are two 5A fuses tucked into a rubber boot to the left of battery, check that they are good.
To the left of engine oil dipstick is the one wire reverse switch. With wire disconnected (key off) and reverse lever down the wire stud should have continuity to ground and no continuity with lever raised.


Reverse diode box is located on right rear below trunk, verify intact wiring (nine wires). It will have the wire colors going to it as referenced in the above schematic.
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Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

Sorry for the delay...

Reverse lever has 12V to each area as described, with lever up and down, correctly. And can hear reverse relay click when pulling it up. (20amp relay to left of the battery, hung on rear fender)
Wire by dipstick also has continuity to ground with reverse down...and nothing with lever up.

Diode box has all wires going in correctly.
Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

I don’t know if this also has anything to do with anything...but cruise button doesn’t light up
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by MikeB »

Gar513 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:35 am I don’t know if this also has anything to do with anything...but cruise button doesn’t light up
If the Cruise On light does not come on when the Cruise Button is depressed and ignition is turned on, it is an indication that the Kill switch is not in the Run position.
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

Well then lets get right into that B relay. Find and disconnect the two small wires to it, yel/red and grn/red. With wires disconnected key on and start button pushed check for 12V at the harness side yel/red wire. If 12V there check for continuity to ground on the harness side grn/red. If continuity there reconnect yel/red to relay and run a jumper wire from the grn/red of relay to a good ground. See if it cranks over good now. If not, with grn/red jumper to ground still in place check what voltage reading you are getting on the connected yel/red when trying to start again under load.
I am thinking there might be a power supply problem or ground problem to the relay when under a load in operation, more likely ground side.
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

Gar513 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:24 am And can hear reverse relay click when pulling it up. (20amp relay to left of the battery, hung on rear fender)
Two reverse power and one speed limiter relay are to the left of battery. The reverse lever switch relay under the seat is the one that should be clicking when raising and lowering handle, does it? The ones clicking to left of battery are doing so because R light is coming on when engine is not running which is not correct. We gonna try to figure it out but it is easier in person doing rather than explaining for me.
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Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

Amazing. You are THE MAN (or woman, whichever the case may be...)

I did everything you said. Yellow/red had 11.34V on button...nothing on Green/red side. No continuity. I grounded a jumper wire on relay B and fired right off...wow.
So next is chasing that green/red to find out where it’s not making contact or broken wire or something?
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

The grn/red wire goes to the diode box. Check continuity from that grn/red to grn/red at box. If you have continuity then it is on to checking the reverse diode box itself.
Go back up to the schematic and check with box unplugged, your meter might have a diode checker function in it. A faulty diode box can also make it crank over only with clutch pulled.
Oh ya brother.
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Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

Two reverse power and one speed limiter relay are to the left of battery. The reverse lever switch relay under the seat is the one that should be clicking when raising and lowering handle, does it? The ones clicking to left of battery are doing so because R light is coming on when engine is not running which is not correct. We gonna try to figure it out but it is easier in person doing rather than explaining for me.

I do see these 3 relays together...they have a yellow wire (maybe 8-10 gauge or so) with black sheath wrapped around it and it wasn’t hooked to anything and had a ring connector on it...someone else told me that was ground... is that accurate? Because I grounded it...
Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

ct1500 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:30 pm The grn/red wire goes to the diode box. Check continuity from that grn/red to grn/red at box. If you have continuity then it is on to checking the reverse diode box itself.
Go back up to the schematic and check with box unplugged, your meter might have a diode checker function in it. A faulty diode box can also make it crank over only with clutch pulled.
Oh ya brother.
It does have continuity to the plug via the grn/red wire. However....diode box itself may have an issue...it looks like something before burned a hole through it... let me see if I can post a photo...


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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

The yellow wire does go to ground but should be connected to the 65A speed limiter fuse under seat. Your reverse diodes are cooked, you need to find the cause as to why. Those three relays are interchangeable but there is a difference, two are normally closed and one normally open. Make some tests checking part numbers of relays and be sure they are plugged into the correct connector.
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Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

ct1500 wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:49 am The yellow wire does go to ground but should be connected to the 65A speed limiter fuse under seat. Your reverse diodes are cooked, you need to find the cause as to why. Those three relays are interchangeable but there is a difference, two are normally closed and one normally open. Make some tests checking part numbers of relays and be sure they are plugged into the correct connector.
Just getting start, run, and reverse correctly was my first step. I really didn’t want to keep taking it apart to work everything out...that’s a lot of body parts. :lol: so I’m trying to do each system step by step....

There was only 1 large fuse block (65A) not 2..that came in parts boxes... I use it as main fuse for alt and batt.

As for diode box, PO only mentioned he couldn’t get it to start off button and didn’t know why...and showed me how he was jumping it and to show me it runs great... I just didn’t have enough history, as I’m finding everything like this out as I continue to try and get this back on the road.

Harness ends for CB and radio are cut completely off and wires just hanging and not capped... (and it didn’t come with the CB or radio either, which isn’t a big deal).

There are LED bulbs in front fairing...(turns, curb) that I haven’t even started chasing yet to make sure they are hooked up right... they seem kind of funky and don’t seem like they are working properly...yet...

I will look at those 3 relays to make sure they are correct...they look brand new... (the only relays I have purchased were the ones for the block beside the fuse panel on left side...I picked up 2 to have on hand...just in case...)
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ct1500
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by ct1500 »

The relays will look brand new, they were originally encased in a rubber boot. Part numbers on two of them will be identical while the third will have a different number. Make sure the oddball goes to the correct connector with the corresponding wiring colors.
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Gar513
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by Gar513 »

Ok, I have looked everywhere for a reverse diode assembly... I have found a part number for it (31710-MT8-003), however, I am finding so many varieties.... markings on the existing are - Shindenger S3H-20 and 2.4

I have found the same S3H-20 boxes, but cannot find one with 2.4 I have found a couple 9.6, 0.2, and I believe I saw one 7.2(?) but nothing with 2.4.

Is it all the same? Would that be a revision number or some type of voltage/impedance number or does it matter? Or is that simply the wrong one for this wing?
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bellboy40
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Re: GL1500 SE start issue

Post by bellboy40 »

It looks to me like they are all interchangeable. According to the Partzilla parts diagram, it shows that part will work in every GL1500 from 1990-2000. Look at the right side of the page in this link.
https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/31710-MT8-003


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