1990 1500 SE No spark


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mccarterj
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1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »



My nephew replaced A and B solenoids and also his starter. Spins over great now but wouldn't start. Approaches me for assistance :-(
Verified fuel and then pulled spark plug, No spark, suspected battery, replaced it. Moved bike to garage.
Pulled all plugs, no spark on any. Performed all test on ECU with results all normal. Checked kill switch, each position voltage as it should be. Tested bank angle sensor for normal position per book, correct voltages. Black white wire has plenty of voltage. Pulse generators, coils, side stand verified correct during ECU test.
I have my own spare bike, a 93, mine makes spark, removed my ECU on my bike and put his on my bike, good spark, so his ECU is good. Checked bolt tight through timing cover. Pulled battery and inspected for any missing connections while he worked on it, not seeing anything disconnected, verified his A solenoid connects compared to my 93 1500, all the same.
Cranks over fine, new battery maintained up with top notch tender indicating full battery.
I am at a loss here, done all the book steps, done everything suggested online I can find, any thoughts?


Jeff McCarter
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mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

Forgot bottom right relay clicks. also swapped it with another relay just in case contactor was bad.
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ct1500
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by ct1500 »

With key ON, kill switch to run and cruise button ON does the cruise ON light illuminate?
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mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

Yes, cruise light comes on and off with cruise activation, if kill switch is set to off it will go out.
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Charlie1Horse
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Charlie1Horse »

If you have no spark and the ECU is good, about the only thing left in the ignition circuit is the ignition coils. But since it is almost impossible for all three coils to go out at the same time, try checking the wiring from the ECU to the coils. Do a coil primary/secondary test on the coils. Check the little four pin connector by the ECU on the wiring harness as the common pin could have some corrosion and a bad connection. When my 92 Interstate quit I found the connection screws loose under the kill switch but, you said you checked that already.
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mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

I had cleaned up the 4 pin connector next to the ECU, and I now tested the primary coils from their with readings in tolerance and tested the secondary coils through the spark plug caps with readings in tolerance as well.
This thing is just baffling me everything I test, test good, yet no spark anywhere. I am going to start retesting over again. Something is hiding from me.
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DenverWinger
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by DenverWinger »

Next suspect would be pulse generators, the 1500 has two of them... They are behind the timing belts on the crankshaft.

You should be able to measure their resistance at the ECU to see if they are in spec. I don't have the ECU pin numbers, my schematic is for 1994 and there's differences in the first few years of 1500's
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mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

ECU cable end has been tested twice, all pin test were in spec.
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bellboy40
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by bellboy40 »

Has the timing belts been replaced recently? If those pulse generators get put back in the wrong place, it won't start. Since everything in the primary and secondary ignition circuits test ok, it is time to take a look at those pulse generators.
mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

Thank you for your thoughts.
No recent timing belt work. I inspected and the timing belt is in place and turning. I should have spark, even if it's out of time correct?
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Charlie1Horse
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Charlie1Horse »

Just another thought, about checking all the connector pins under the fairing where the kill switch harness plugs into the main harness for corrosion. Or the connectors over the right radiator fan. Being caught out in the rain will blow water up into this area. Or pressure washing. I am not sure if any of these are relevant to the coils.Check all the ground connections on the frame for bad, loose, or corroded contact.
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Swagonmaster
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Swagonmaster »

The bank angle sensor seems like a possible source for your problem. I understand they go out rather unpredictably. It's behind the right saddlebag I believe. Find it and short the red/white wire to ground and see if it will fire up.
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bellboy40
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by bellboy40 »

It won't be the BAS. If it was not working, the starter would not turn the motor over.
Have you measured the battery voltage while cranking the motor over? It should be more than 10 volts or there won't be enough voltage to fire the plugs.
If that is good, try reading the small ac voltage coming from the pulse generators when trying to start the engine. Put your voltmeter on a low ac scale and read between the yellow/white yellow wires for one of the PGs and the blue/white blue for the other one. With the ignition on, run switch on, and pushing the start button, you should read a low ac voltage on those pair of wires. It will be about .1 or .2 volts if they are pulsing.
mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

Update, only Bike service place that would look at it took it for a few days, they tested everything and couldn't figure it out. They had a lot of work coming in because of sudden warm weather and told me they couldn't dig deep into it until fall so we have it back now.
I have checked the connectors over the right fan, both the kill switch and the pulse generator connectors, they test good per the book, and connections are clean.
I think I will test ignition switch next, just running out of ideas.
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bellboy40
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by bellboy40 »

Did you make the tests I asked for in my last post? If so, what was the results?
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Swagonmaster
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Swagonmaster »

There is one question that I don't see has been asked, what happened before the no start? Did it die on the road, was it just sitting a long time? At this point any info might help. Before I'd wait till fall I'd buy a shop manual that has diagrams and pinouts and do some poking around.
I haven't read where you had checked all of the fuses with a test light, several things need to be powered up for it to start and the fuse labels don't really tell you everything that's on each fuse.
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ct1500
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by ct1500 »

You have verified that the fuel pump is working and pumping fuel when the engine is cranking? There is a white 4 wire connector on outside of frame to the right of carbs which goes to the coils. With key ON the Blk/Wht wire should have battery voltage.
Try disconnecting wire connector at side stand switch and see if it will now spark.
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mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

update on todays testing. Pulse generator wire test while cranking getting .3 volts Ac on both pairs
Black white wire near ECU has high 10 to low 11 volts, not maintaining 11.5 while cranking. This is with high capacity jumper box attached as well.
Moving on to some other suggestions, keep em coming, I feel good just checking things rather than sitting baffled.
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bellboy40
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by bellboy40 »

I'm running out of ideas now also. Did you disconnect the side stand switch connector and try it as ct1500 suggested? Kind of grasping at straws now since everything you have checked seems to be ok.
mccarterj
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by mccarterj »

Update to reply to more suggestions. All fuses replaced. Tested with sidestand connector apart.
Bike was running then wouldn't crrank. Replace both a and b solenoids, and before it got started, starter was dragging, slow, so removed and examined starter. Brushes gone bad. New starter not used. That's when this no spark condition started. Changing starter and both solenoids then no spark. I think I covered and tested all suggestions and questions. Oh we are using Clymer manual and done all test from manual, all test good.
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Swagonmaster
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Swagonmaster »

This may give you something to work with:




Since the starter was off I'd look carefully to make sure that no wire plugs were loosened or ground wire not tight.
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Swagonmaster
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Swagonmaster »

One other thing, if all else fails try running a wire from the battery to the black/white wire. I am not sure what the minimum voltage to the ecm is to allow starting but high 10's sound like very little.
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Charlie1Horse
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Charlie1Horse »

When you changed the solenoids you didn't loose one of the wires in behind the solenoid and miss connecting it? Just another thought.
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ct1500
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by ct1500 »

Have you verified the fuel pump is indeed pumping fuel when cranking over????????????????
I find it highly unlikely that both relays were bad along with the starter. ;) Did you use OEM relays?
Seems there is likely a wiring snafu going on and time to check other things.
Do the neutral and sidestand lights work and remain ON while cranking over?
When dropped into gear does the neutral light go off?
Will it crank over in gear without pulling clutch in?
Will it crank over in gear as designed by pulling clutch in?
Does the reverse light come on with key ON and lever up?
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Swagonmaster
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Re: 1990 1500 SE No spark

Post by Swagonmaster »

Basically what we are saying is that when you can't find anything wrong I would suggest looking to see what does work and what doesn't. That would include lights, starting circumstances as above and even the horn as its on the same fuse as other things.


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