Electrical Problem? Please Help!!


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Thirty6dark
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Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »



Hello all,

I just got this 2000 GL1500SE. It's currently being registered in my state, but in the meanwhile I have been shining it up for spring. I was checking the lights today, and I noticed something weird happens when I turn on the left blinker. I get reverse, fuel, dash, and both cruise lights. Also, the engine dropped a few hundred rpm's. With the right blinker on, the bike goes back to normal. (warning lights off, rpm's go back up, dash lights off). I checked the forum, but nothing exactly like this problem.

Has anybody seen this before?

I made a video of it to show, but I don't know how to post it here.

Thanks in advance. I hope there is someone here that can help.

--Mike


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Charlie1Horse
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Charlie1Horse »

Usually, when you turn on one accessory/light, and something else, unrelated comes on, it is due to a bad ground. It starts seeking ground through another source. Start checking ground connections, especially the ground in the large plug under the seat. Disconnect it to see if the ground terminal is burned.There are numerous other grounds attached to the frame.If the previous owner add additional accessories, you may try disconnecting them for your problem. But a bad ground is where I would start. Always put dielectric grease on/in any connector you unplug to help keep moisture out that causes corrosion and bad connection.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by MikeB »

Read thrugh the information in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=364700#p364700

Your probblrm may be in the same area as mine was.
MikeB
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

MikeB wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:52 pm Read thrugh the information in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=364700#p364700

Your problem may be in the same area as mine was.
I looked at both large connectors under the seat, found nothing suspicious. I checked the fuse panels to see if something shorted there. The lights that come on are definitely getting a ground from the marker switch; especially when switched left. I need to find the wiring diagram to see what is in common with all of those lights I mentioned, and why it happens. I am starting to suspect a bad switch, but I have no proof yet. It is pretty corroded underneath the left controls. In the Navy, it was always a corroded wire or part in some dumb place that kept the plane from flying. I'll have to keep looking. Good news is the bike isn't unrideable, but it is definitely annoying to have your dash light up every time you go left. Like I said before, I need to find the wiring diagram before I go further.

--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

I found the wiring diagrams. I found that connector 66 is the common connector for all of the systems that are lighting up when I signal left (reverse, cruise, fuel, turn signals, and dash lighting). What I did find when I took the dash apart to get to connector 66 is nothing wrong. No shorts whatsoever. The connectors look fine. I checked them all while I had the dash apart.

There is another connector that I would like to check, but I'm unsure of it's location. It is connector 55. The manual says "behind right front pocket". Is that the little locked spot in the dash, or are they referring to another spot on the bike? This is my first motorcycle with a fairing, so not sure.

Also, my bike cant be started in gear with the clutch pulled. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the problem I'm currently dealing with or if that's normal.

Any ideas are welcome.

--Mike
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ct1500
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by ct1500 »

Can you actually hear the engine RPM's drop or do you think it is just the tachometer?
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

ct1500 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:45 pm Can you actually hear the engine RPM's drop or do you think it is just the tachometer?

I can see and hear the RPM's dropping when the left signal is on. Goes right back to normal when off and right signal on. I assume it is all of the lights on that is putting strain on the electrical system. I took a video of it, but I have no clue how to upload it here.

--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by ct1500 »

Thirty6dark wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:49 pm I assume it is all of the lights on that is putting strain on the electrical system.
--Mike
That would depend. Even if a dead short the RPM of engine should stay the same all things equal. If you have an OEM 40A alternator because at idle they are full fielding (outputting) already on a 2000SE. A drop of a volt or two in the electrical system, alternators aside would not drop your engine RPM. On the other hand if you have a high output Compufire type alternator and have current going to ground that would cause the alternator to produce more current dragging the RPM down.
You got a strange one there. :?
I would firstly like to see if more charging current is being produced when the left signal activates. This would be accomplished with a clamp-on amp meter around the alternator main output wire.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by MikeB »

Thirty6dark wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:34 pm I found the wiring diagrams. I found that connector 66 is the common connector for all of the systems that are lighting up when I signal left (reverse, cruise, fuel, turn signals, and dash lighting). What I did find when I took the dash apart to get to connector 66 is nothing wrong. No shorts whatsoever. The connectors look fine. I checked them all while I had the dash apart.

There is another connector that I would like to check, but I'm unsure of it's location. It is connector 55. The manual says "behind right front pocket". Is that the little locked spot in the dash, or are they referring to another spot on the bike? This is my first motorcycle with a fairing, so not sure.

Also, my bike cant be started in gear with the clutch pulled. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the problem I'm currently dealing with or if that's normal.

Any ideas are welcome.

--Mike
Here is a picture from the Honda Service Manual that shows the location of connector C55:


It is on the right side just above the fresh air vent.
MikeB
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Charlie1Horse
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Charlie1Horse »

That is the right locking pocket in the fairing. Unlock, remove cover, and four screws will gain access.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

OK. Thanks for the info. I will check that out this week. Work schedule is crazy. I will let you all know what I find. I appreciate everyone's help.

--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Rambozo »

Rather than just a visual inspection a few checks with a meter, voltage drop, current, resistance to ground, etc. could help you to narrow down where to look.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

Rambozo wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:02 am Rather than just a visual inspection a few checks with a meter, voltage drop, current, resistance to ground, etc. could help you to narrow down where to look.
I agree totally. But I am waiting on the electrical troubleshooting manual to be mailed to me. Visual is all I have right now.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

I just wanted to update everyone on my situation. I got a little time to work on the bike today. I connected the dash and rechecked the blinkers and found more wrong. I noticed when the right blinker is pressed, the corner lights go out, and the blinkers blink in unison. When I press the left blinkers, All of the dash lights I mentioned above light, plus the corner lights stay on, and the blinkers blink all out of sync; plus a little faster. Normally that indicates a blown bulb, but they all worked. Just all out of whack.

I checked the wire harnesses I could see for cuts/nicks. I did find a connector not connected to anything under the right pocket. It is coming off what I believe is the right turn signal harness. I cannot find anything to connect it to in that area. I hope this is the problem, but being that the right side blinks at the same speed in unison, I'm not so sure.

I'm starting to believe that it is not ONE wire shorting, or a connector somewhere not connected. In the Navy, it was rarely one wire that messed with multiple systems on F/A-18's. It was a component. I don't know what is in common with all of those systems. And no, I haven't received the electrical troubleshooting manual I ordered on eBay yet, so reading wires is not possible yet. It's killing me!! I'll have to take all of the plastic off and check every connection. every ground, every wire bundle when I do receive it.

I just got this bike, and the weather is starting to get great for riding. It just really takes the wind out of my sails that I have this problem. It's so disappointing.

Any suggestions?

--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by WingAdmin »

Thirty6dark wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:51 pm I just wanted to update everyone on my situation. I got a little time to work on the bike today. I connected the dash and rechecked the blinkers and found more wrong. I noticed when the right blinker is pressed, the corner lights go out, and the blinkers blink in unison. When I press the left blinkers, All of the dash lights I mentioned above light, plus the corner lights stay on, and the blinkers blink all out of sync; plus a little faster. Normally that indicates a blown bulb, but they all worked. Just all out of whack.

I checked the wire harnesses I could see for cuts/nicks. I did find a connector not connected to anything under the right pocket. It is coming off what I believe is the right turn signal harness. I cannot find anything to connect it to in that area. I hope this is the problem, but being that the right side blinks at the same speed in unison, I'm not so sure.

I'm starting to believe that it is not ONE wire shorting, or a connector somewhere not connected. In the Navy, it was rarely one wire that messed with multiple systems on F/A-18's. It was a component. I don't know what is in common with all of those systems. And no, I haven't received the electrical troubleshooting manual I ordered on eBay yet, so reading wires is not possible yet. It's killing me!! I'll have to take all of the plastic off and check every connection. every ground, every wire bundle when I do receive it.

I just got this bike, and the weather is starting to get great for riding. It just really takes the wind out of my sails that I have this problem. It's so disappointing.

Any suggestions?

--Mike
On the front signal lights, you can see on the second circuit diagram below, there are two filament sin each bulb. The left has Orange/White and Orange, and the right has Light Blue and Light Blue/White. The Orange/White and Blue/White supply +12v to the bulbs when the bike is turned on. This lights up the low-power filament in the bulbs, and is the running light.

When you flip the turn signal on, the turn switch disconnects the appropriate side to turn that running light off. So if you flip the left turn signal on, the switch disconnects the Orange/White connection, which turns out the low power filament.

This occurs so that the high power filament can then flash and the light will flash ON/OFF instead of BRIGHT/DIM.

At the same time as you flip the switch to left, it connects the output of the turn signal flasher relay to the orange wire. This energizes the turn signal relay, which begins flashing, and everything starts to flash.

It should be noted that the hazard lights use a different flasher relay, and do NOT disconnect the running lights, so when you hit the hazard lights, the front signals should flash BRIGHT/DIM, not BRIGHT/OFF.

That's how it's SUPPOSED to work.

When you press the right turn signal, you're saying BOTH lights go out, and BOTH lights begin to blink in unison.

When you press the left turn signal, the corner lights stay on, and they blink out of sync - are you saying that you have different lights blinking at different times? The only way that could happen is if your hazard switch is also on.

So here's what I think. It's possible that your hazard switch is on and/or malfunctioning, and I suspect also the turn signal switch itself is malfunctioning.

If you can confirm whether or not your hazard switch is on, and if the lights are in fact flashing separately at different times, it can help with the diagnosis. Perhaps a video showing what is happening would help?

Here are the circuits, FYI. Incidentally, there is an error in this circuit diagram. The diagram shows the hazard switch has one output that connects to both flashers. This is wrong - if this was the case, then all the signal lights would flash at the same time even if you used just a turn signal. In fact, the hazard switch has TWO poles, and switches power to both signals independently, so they are only connected together when the hazard switch is depressed.

Turn Signal circuit 1 of 2
Turn Signal circuit 1 of 2


Turn Signal circuit 2 of 2
Turn Signal circuit 2 of 2

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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

WingAdmin wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:17 pm
Thirty6dark wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:51 pm I just wanted to update everyone on my situation. I got a little time to work on the bike today. I connected the dash and rechecked the blinkers and found more wrong. I noticed when the right blinker is pressed, the corner lights go out, and the blinkers blink in unison. When I press the left blinkers, All of the dash lights I mentioned above light, plus the corner lights stay on, and the blinkers blink all out of sync; plus a little faster. Normally that indicates a blown bulb, but they all worked. Just all out of whack.

I checked the wire harnesses I could see for cuts/nicks. I did find a connector not connected to anything under the right pocket. It is coming off what I believe is the right turn signal harness. I cannot find anything to connect it to in that area. I hope this is the problem, but being that the right side blinks at the same speed in unison, I'm not so sure.

I'm starting to believe that it is not ONE wire shorting, or a connector somewhere not connected. In the Navy, it was rarely one wire that messed with multiple systems on F/A-18's. It was a component. I don't know what is in common with all of those systems. And no, I haven't received the electrical troubleshooting manual I ordered on eBay yet, so reading wires is not possible yet. It's killing me!! I'll have to take all of the plastic off and check every connection. every ground, every wire bundle when I do receive it.

I just got this bike, and the weather is starting to get great for riding. It just really takes the wind out of my sails that I have this problem. It's so disappointing.

Any suggestions?

--Mike
On the front signal lights, you can see on the second circuit diagram below, there are two filament sin each bulb. The left has Orange/White and Orange, and the right has Light Blue and Light Blue/White. The Orange/White and Blue/White supply +12v to the bulbs when the bike is turned on. This lights up the low-power filament in the bulbs, and is the running light.

When you flip the turn signal on, the turn switch disconnects the appropriate side to turn that running light off. So if you flip the left turn signal on, the switch disconnects the Orange/White connection, which turns out the low power filament.

This occurs so that the high power filament can then flash and the light will flash ON/OFF instead of BRIGHT/DIM.

At the same time as you flip the switch to left, it connects the output of the turn signal flasher relay to the orange wire. This energizes the turn signal relay, which begins flashing, and everything starts to flash.

It should be noted that the hazard lights use a different flasher relay, and do NOT disconnect the running lights, so when you hit the hazard lights, the front signals should flash BRIGHT/DIM, not BRIGHT/OFF.

That's how it's SUPPOSED to work.

When you press the right turn signal, you're saying BOTH lights go out, and BOTH lights begin to blink in unison.

When you press the left turn signal, the corner lights stay on, and they blink out of sync - are you saying that you have different lights blinking at different times? The only way that could happen is if your hazard switch is also on.

So here's what I think. It's possible that your hazard switch is on and/or malfunctioning, and I suspect also the turn signal switch itself is malfunctioning.

If you can confirm whether or not your hazard switch is on, and if the lights are in fact flashing separately at different times, it can help with the diagnosis. Perhaps a video showing what is happening would help?

Here are the circuits, FYI. Incidentally, there is an error in this circuit diagram. The diagram shows the hazard switch has one output that connects to both flashers. This is wrong - if this was the case, then all the signal lights would flash at the same time even if you used just a turn signal. In fact, the hazard switch has TWO poles, and switches power to both signals independently, so they are only connected together when the hazard switch is depressed.

Circuit1.png
Circuit2.png
Wingadmin,

Thanks for replying. I've learned a ton from this site, and I thank you for the opportunity for all of us to post here and share knowledge. Now to reply to your question, when I press the right turn signal switch, both white corner lights go out, and all of the blinking lights blink in unison. When I press the left turn signal switch, the dash lights go crazy, as well as the white corner lights come back on, and the blinking lights blink however they want a little faster. I read your post about how to upload a video from YouTube, and I'm going to give it a shot. Maybe you experienced "Wingers" will see something that my limite experience with 'Wings just doesn't. I will post two videos. The first is the dash, which grabbed my attention initially. I'll make and post another later today, showing the rest of the lights and what they are doing.



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Thanks to all taking a gander and helping me.

--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by WingAdmin »

Oh ok, wow, you've got a lot more going on than I thought. This looks like a short - at first I thought it was going to be in C55 or C66, but because the low fuel indicator light is involved (which doesn't use either of those connectors), I suspect you've got a short in a wiring bundle - and it's involving quite a few wires.

A quick question: When you shift the bike into reverse and the "R" lights up, do the cruise control lights and low fuel lights also come on?
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by terryt »

Disconnect the cornering lights and leave them disconnected while you track the problem down.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

OK, as promised, here is a longer video of whats going on.



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Thank you for all of your help all.


--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by MikeB »

I do not believe that the flashing fairing and trunk side lights in unison with flashers is a malfunction. There was a small haness manufactured that you could connect, one per side, that would allow them to work that way. They were made for both the front and rear.
This one is for the front: https://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/gl1500 ... kit/83/641
This is for the rear: https://www.motorcycleid.com/add-on-acc ... 0-141.html
Without those harnesses, the lights would just be on steady at all times.

So, those lights are more than likely operating normally.

As to the dash lights, it looks like whenever you start the left turn signal, the warning lights come on momentarily and then go off. That is how they would normally work when the ignition is first turned on. It is like there is a ground being sent to the Bulb Test circuit when you turn on the left turn signal. And, this is also turning on your lower cornering/cowl lights.

TerryT suggested disconnecting the cornering/cowl lights during your tests. Maybe give that a try to see if it will keep the instrument warning lights from coming on. Maybe they are part of the weird lighting equation.
MikeB
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by ct1500 »

Was that a trailer hitch I saw in the rear? You have a severe and not run of the mill wiring problem on your machine which can be easily explained by a typical fault.
The plastic on these machines can hide all sorts of previous sins. You think that because the problem exhibits in the dash that must be where the fault lies? Not always the case with electrical.
If it were mine the plastic would be off looking for previous fixes, improvements and mis-steps as a first check. A thorough visual inspection often times shows where a problem resides.
It seems plausible to me that the starter motor might be engaging which could explain the RPM drop. You got your work cut out as lots of things need to be looked at and checked. :(
Last edited by ct1500 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by WingAdmin »

OK, I'm going to agree with MikeB. I didn't realize all the lights on the dash were turning off after a few seconds, which is definitely indicative of the bulb test line being triggered.

Also the alternating flash between the rear turn signals and the rear side lights is an accessory modification. The way it works is a convoluted method of feeding the ground for the side lights into the FEED for the turn signal light. It then finds its way to ground through the filament of the turn signal bulb, but not with enough current to light the turn signal. When the turn signal turns on, there is +12V on that feed, which negates the ground for the side lights, and the side lights go out.

I never liked this system, it backfeeds voltage onto the turn signals when there isn't any supposed to be there. The first thing I would do is yank those things out of there. You'll have to remove the trunk undercover to get at those. They just plug in, so just unplug the adapters and plug the connectors back where they were from the factory. That's one less aftermarket change to deal with.

As for what else is happening, let's go over them one by one:

- Both cornering lights are on when turn signal set to LEFT, and off when turn signal set to RIGHT. Correct behavior is that the left one is on when left turn signal is on, and right one is on when right turn signal is on. This could be a fault in the turn signal switch itself, or a short and break in a wiring bundle.

- Hazard lights work normally. This tells us that the wiring TO the various lights is OK.

- Both right and left flashers are flashing quicker than normal. This is likely due to the fact that you have your front turn signal lights removed from the fairing, so you have less load on the relays. It doesn't affect the hazards, because it has more lights to flash.

- When you turn your right signal on, only the right side comes on as you would expect, but the rear lights are not alternating like you would expect. To me this says that either not enough current is getting to the rear turn signal to negate the side light ground, or...it's operating backwards, and presenting a ground to the light, which is feeding both. To determine what is going on, we need to take out those aftermarket accessory harnesses I mentioned previously.

- When you turn your left signal on, the instrument panel executes a bulb test, and the engine loads down. The reason the engine loads down is because both of the cornering lights are coming on. I *suspect* this sudden negative spike from all those lights coming on at once is what is causing the bulb test - it sees voltage drop and then come back up, and thinks power has just come on (which is what causes the bulb test to happen). Try this: Rev the engine up to say 3500, then switch the left turn signal on. Does the bulb test happen (all the dash lights come on for 3-4 seconds)? I suspect it will not.

So what's the cause of all of this...from looking at the circuit schematics, the only thing I see in common to all of these is the turn signal switch itself. It's the only one thing I can see where it could cause all of the things you're experiencing.
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will pull all of the plastic off this weekend. I am going to try my best to put it back to stock. All of the aftermarket lighting, the wiring for the trailer hitch, the hitch if I can get it off. Everything that didn't come stock is coming off, electrically. I will try revving it to 3500 and checking the lights like WingAdmin suggested to see how the lights react. I'll unplug the cornering lights like terryt suggested. Then, its time to find what and where the cause of all of this is. USPS tracking says the electrical troubleshooting manual I ordered will be here this Monday. I'll have the bike undressed and my meter ready for when it does arrive. I will keep all who has helped and is interested in helping me updated.


--Mike
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Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Rambozo »

One reason the engine sees a load with only the left, is that both cornering lights are on.(What you called fog lights) Those can be very high powered bulbs. They are a great candidate for LED replacements. Depending on the year and any modifications done, those lights typically are cornering lights, so only one comes on solid when that side turn signal is on. Some people wired them to be on all the time, but that frequently caused a meltdown as they were never intended to run constantly. With the right type of LED this would not be a problem.
That the side trunk lights flash alternately with the hazards, but not with the turn signals is bizarre.
I suspect you have some rodent damage of the two legged variety. Start looking around for things hanging off the stock harness, vampire taps, and worse. You will probably find things like these on the front and rear turn signals.






Done right they are ok, but they may have just been the starting point for someone to start making their Wing into a Christmas tree. (You know who you are!)
Some of the lights are only reflectors from Honda, and have been converted to lights. I believe a 2000 SE has most of those from factory, but to be honest I'm not sure as I don't think I've ever seen an unmolested Goldwing.
Thirty6dark
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Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100A Aspencade (For Sale)
2000 GL1500SE Aspencade
2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Custom

Re: Electrical Problem? Please Help!!

Post by Thirty6dark »

Rambozo wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:06 am One reason the engine sees a load with only the left, is that both cornering lights are on.(What you called fog lights) Those can be very high powered bulbs. They are a great candidate for LED replacements. Depending on the year and any modifications done, those lights typically are cornering lights, so only one comes on solid when that side turn signal is on. Some people wired them to be on all the time, but that frequently caused a meltdown as they were never intended to run constantly. With the right type of LED this would not be a problem.
That the side trunk lights flash alternately with the hazards, but not with the turn signals is bizarre.
I suspect you have some rodent damage of the two legged variety. Start looking around for things hanging off the stock harness, vampire taps, and worse. You will probably find things like these on the front and rear turn signals.
1500__FrontTurnSignalFlasherKit_090-140.JPG
1500_RearTurnSignalFlasherKit_090-141.JPG
Done right they are ok, but they may have just been the starting point for someone to start making their Wing into a Christmas tree. (You know who you are!)
Some of the lights are only reflectors from Honda, and have been converted to lights. I believe a 2000 SE has most of those from factory, but to be honest I'm not sure as I don't think I've ever seen an unmolested Goldwing.
Yes exactly! I was wondering what those weird connectors were under the side pockets. Now I know those are coming out, and the blue wire in the picture is for the horn. That's getting investigated also. Thank you!

--Mike
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