Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft


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BadgerWing
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Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by BadgerWing »



I'm trying to change the shifter oil seal on a 1998SE. I have removed the shifter and the dogleg pinch bolt, but I cannot get the dogleg off the shaft. It seems to be banging into the frame. The oil seal looks pretty nasty and greasy, and I have a sidestand leak, so I think it needs replacement. BUT, I can't get the dogleg off. Has anyone come across this, and is there a solution that doesn't involve moving the engine?

Thanks for any suggestions!


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Sassy
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by Sassy »

Check out the thread in How To Articles,
on changing shaft seal, pictures, lots a input. Your answer will be there.
Enjoying the Darkside
Fred
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by BadgerWing »

Yes, I know there is a how-to. You seem to be one of those "do your homework" kind of guys. I always do my homework. I've read the instructions five times and rehearsed every motion in my mind until I can see it happen. I have. Like a surgeon. I'm not kidding. I'm very thorough.

The problem is, the instructions are physically impossible on my bike, and I'm asking for help, not a lecture. If you have nothing to add, that's fine, but don't insinuate that I'm not doing my best.

Thanks
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by Crusty1 »

I changed mine and did not run into your issue. Can you post a closeup picture.
BadgerWing
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by BadgerWing »

Will do. I'll post tomorrow. Looking forward to your thoughts.
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Sassy
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by Sassy »

BadgerWing wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:30 pm Yes, I know there is a how-to. You seem to be one of those "do your homework" kind of guys. I always do my homework. I've read the instructions five times and rehearsed every motion in my mind until I can see it happen. I have. Like a surgeon. I'm not kidding. I'm very thorough.

The problem is, the instructions are physically impossible on my bike, and I'm asking for help, not a lecture. If you have nothing to add, that's fine, but don't insinuate that I'm not doing my best.

Thanks
?????
Was just trying to help,, how would I know that you know about the how to section?
Good luck on your repair.
Fred
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by Sassy »

:) I searched around abit and found this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46601
I did the seal last fall and had your problem too but managed to get it out with some prying. Another member said hd loosened a couple motor mounts and pryed to get it out. Both of us ground just enough off the shift arm to get it back in without any prying.
Fred
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by WingAdmin »

This is a pretty common problem. Some people (like myself) had no problem whatsoever, the shaft comes right off with plenty of clearance. Others don't have sufficient clearance from the frame, and I suppose it depends on what day of the week your GL1500 was made? Or by whom?

In any case, if you don't have sufficient clearance, most of the people have reported that by removing one or more engine mount bolts and using a pry bar between the engine case and frame, they are able to get enough clearance to remove the shifter dogleg. Careful about prying the engine case, as it is thin aluminum, it might be a good idea to use a piece of wood against it to spread the load of the pry bar.
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by 4given »

Sometimes it’s just a matter of the exact angle that you try to pull it off of the shaft. I fooled around with mine for 20 minutes or more and then it fell right off.
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by BadgerWing »

Thanks for all the helpful responses. I said I would post some images, so here they are. I'm something of an attachment newbie, so these might or might not come through correctly.

The first one is of the dogleg and the oil seal. The seal looks pretty bad to me, and, as you can see, I've removed the pinch bolt from the dogleg.


The second one is of the dogleg when I pull it against the frame as far as it can go. There isn't quite enough clearance to get it off the shaft. I can even jiggle it around so that it lines up with a different spline on the shaft, but I can't quite get to pull off.


I'm going to look into the motor mount solution. On the other hand, is there really any need to replace the oil seal as long as it's not leaking on the centerstand? I was doing the job because I was putting on the shifter brace (which is definitely a good idea, it seems), but I'm not sure the oil seal is worth the hassle. I could use an education one way or another.

Thanks to all!
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by MikeB »

BadgerWing wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:28 pm Thanks for all the helpful responses. I said I would post some images, so here they are. I'm something of an attachment newbie, so these might or might not come through correctly.

The first one is of the dogleg and the oil seal. The seal looks pretty bad to me, and, as you can see, I've removed the pinch bolt from the dogleg.

IMG_1677.jpg

The second one is of the dogleg when I pull it against the frame as far as it can go. There isn't quite enough clearance to get it off the shaft. I can even jiggle it around so that it lines up with a different spline on the shaft, but I can't quite get to pull off.

IMG_1678.jpg

I'm going to look into the motor mount solution. On the other hand, is there really any need to replace the oil seal as long as it's not leaking on the centerstand? I was doing the job because I was putting on the shifter brace (which is definitely a good idea, it seems), but I'm not sure the oil seal is worth the hassle. I could use an education one way or another.

Thanks to all!
Do you see all the dirt and oily residue on the engine around the shift shaft? If the seal was not leaking, that area would be clean. That is the reason for replacing the seal.

I had the same trouble you are having when I replaced my seal several years ago. I was ready to loosen an engine mount bolt or two after a few hours of trying to manipulate the lever when all of a sudden, I rotated it and turned it slightly and it came out. Virtually fell out. Once I had it out, I did a little grinding on it at a strategic location so that I would not have to fiddle with it if I ever had to remove it again.

I replaced the seal and installed the Pepe Le Pew Aux Shifter Brace Pivot Assembly. I've never had that seal fail again. That was about 40,000 miles ago.
MikeB
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by WingAdmin »

That is pretty much what my seal looked like. It's definitely not going to improve. I would replace it.
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by BadgerWing »

Whelp, the bike is going to have to keep leaking oil, it seems.

After a weeks-long battle with COVID, I returned to the bike and tried everything I could to get the dogleg off the shaft, short of removing the engine. I pushed the shaft into the crankcase as far as I could with a hemostat, I removed the crash bars, and I cut back the heat shielding and mushed it against the frame. I jiggled the dogleg every which way but loose. Nothing doing.

If I could move the engine less than a centimeter to the right, I could probably wiggle the dogleg out of there, but I don't know how to do that without tearing everything off the engine first. If I park the bike on the center stand, it doesn't leak yet, so I think this is going to have to go into the "someday" pile. Coincidentally, I stupidly used red loctite on the bolts for my camshaft covers, so I'm probably going to have to have the engine pulled to replace the timing belts properly anyway, so maybe I'll have both addressed 100K from now, or maybe I'll just junk the bike.

Thanks to all for your help. A few things I did figure out, one was that a 1/4 inch socket works better than a 3/8 for getting at the pinch bolt on the dogleg if you use a universal joint socket. The second thing is that a piece of rubber glove works even better than a shop rag in keeping a bolt in a socket until you thread it. Also a very small dab of anti-seize compound on the tip of the dogleg pinch bolt made it go in so smoothly I thought I had missed the bolt hole completely. For me, that was the easiest part of the job, rather than the hardest, believe it or not.

Best of luck to everyone with their Spring run up!
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by Wingsconsin »

BadgerWing wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:15 am Whelp, the bike is going to have to keep leaking oil, it seems.

After a weeks-long battle with COVID, I returned to the bike and tried everything I could to get the dogleg off the shaft, short of removing the engine. I pushed the shaft into the crankcase as far as I could with a hemostat, I removed the crash bars, and I cut back the heat shielding and mushed it against the frame. I jiggled the dogleg every which way but loose. Nothing doing.

If I could move the engine less than a centimeter to the right, I could probably wiggle the dogleg out of there, but I don't know how to do that without tearing everything off the engine first. If I park the bike on the center stand, it doesn't leak yet, so I think this is going to have to go into the "someday" pile. Coincidentally, I stupidly used red loctite on the bolts for my camshaft covers, so I'm probably going to have to have the engine pulled to replace the timing belts properly anyway, so maybe I'll have both addressed 100K from now, or maybe I'll just junk the bike.

Thanks to all for your help. A few things I did figure out, one was that a 1/4 inch socket works better than a 3/8 for getting at the pinch bolt on the dogleg if you use a universal joint socket. The second thing is that a piece of rubber glove works even better than a shop rag in keeping a bolt in a socket until you thread it. Also a very small dab of anti-seize compound on the tip of the dogleg pinch bolt made it go in so smoothly I thought I had missed the bolt hole completely. For me, that was the easiest part of the job, rather than the hardest, believe it or not.

Best of luck to everyone with their Spring run up!
I am sad to read that you decided to not change the oil seal -even though it is a difficult job on your bike.
From personal experience you will need to do that seal sooner rather than later - I did the same thing as you and didn't change that seal the first time I was in there-
Then the leak got worse and I had the joy of re-doing it -
After that lesson I did 3 more bikes (my son and a couple riding buddies) and ALWAYS changed the seal -

I did a '93, a '92 a '96 and a '00 and never had this trouble as you are ?
Although I have read that this is not an isolated case -- Being only 50 miles from you I could offer assistance - but I am not sure what I could do that you haven't

Best of Luck --

PS: Sell the 1500 and buy the 2008 Titanium GL1800 I am selling ;)
Postings are my opinions based on experience and acquired knowledge.
Your results may vary. Universal disclaimers apply.


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BadgerWing
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Re: Change shifter oil seal -- can't get dogleg off shaft

Post by BadgerWing »

Thanks, I appreciate your kind offer. Maybe we can go riding this summer, if you'd like.

You're right, of course, it's only a matter of time before this goes from "while you're in there" to "you have to get back in there again." FWIW, one person who had this issue also had a 1998SE, so maybe there is something slightly different about the part or the frame or the bike somewhere that makes it a tight fit. If I absolutely had to do it, I could probably get a file in there and start scraping down the part, but that feels like one of those escape from prison movies.

Anyhow, it's disappointing, especially since there are such clear directions for doing it, and it has worked for so many people. Just unlucky, I guess.

Anyhow, thanks for your good wishes.

P.S. I apologized in private for my bad temper, above. I was out of line there. I'll keep things more civil from now on.


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