Indicators stop working when driving ?

[Zradene]

Hi guys, just about finished my GL1500se EML trike, but for some strange reason my indicators stop working whilst driving. With ignition on they work fine, with engine running they work fine. If i creep slowly in first gear they work. Brand new battery fitted also. Just cannot figure this one out. Any suggestions guys.

[LAB3]

Can't say as I know the 1500 electrical system but here's how I'd look at it. My guess is unbolted large pieces of racks, made some frame mods maybe and moved a whole heap of things around while installing the kit. First thing I'd be looking for is any ground wires and making sure they're well fastened and see to it that THAT point is well fastened to the rest of the bike. Next comes any electrical connectors that may have been plugged in or unplugged during the trike kit install, it's amazing what you can dislodge without realizing it.

[Rambozo]

That is an odd one. Just a guess, but could you have wired up something wrong to the self cancelling unit? One of the triggers for that unit is road speed. It is the only thing I can think of that is aware of road speed and has turn signal wiring.

[Zradene]

Hi guys, thanks for you responses to my indicator issue. Another strange thing is before today I was quite sure the hazard switch was not working. However, now what I have discovered is that after depressing the hazard button, if I then move the indicator switch to the left or right both indicators flash together. If I then release the hazard button both indicator lights still continue to flash until I move the left or right indicator switch. Also the indicator cancel button does not switch of the indicators which again is really odd. I am still puzzled as to why the indicators or hazard switch fails to operate when I am driving.... I will take your advice and have a closer look at the wiring. Thanks again for your help.

[Zradene]

Hi again guys, not sure what is meant by "One of the triggers for that unit is road speed. It is the only thing I can think of that is aware of road speed and has turn signal wiring". What component on these Goldwing's is related to speed ?. Maybe Cruise Control... Today I set off for a test run and switched on the indicator before pulling away, and as soon as I hit around 10mph, the indicator switched itself off. When I came to almost stand still it came back on again ? Does this give anyone any clues ?

Thanks guys. Fred

[LAB3]

Are any of the wires coming off the left side switch housing bullet type connectors that connect into the wiring harness? I'd be inclined to think something switched positions when you where reassembling.

[Zradene]

Hi, all the wiring is back to how it was when it was a std. Goldwing motorcycle. Any additional wires that had been added for extra lights were removed.
The fact that the indicators work perfectly when I'm not actually driving tells me it cant surely be a wiring problem. Do you think it could be a faulty relay ?

[LAB3]

A faulty relay certainly is a possibility and as mentioned I have no experience with a 1500, I'm taking a common sense approach since I've often overlooked the basics in the past. In your case everything was working fine and changes where made to the bike, this created a problem when those changes where completed so going over where changes happened makes the most sense. Having the functions change on a set of switches leads me to believe something was not plugged back in where it belongs.

[Rambozo]

Hi again guys, not sure what is meant by "One of the triggers for that unit is road speed. It is the only thing I can think of that is aware of road speed and has turn signal wiring". What component on these Goldwing's is related to speed ?. Maybe Cruise Control... Today I set off for a test run and switched on the indicator before pulling away, and as soon as I hit around 10mph, the indicator switched itself off. When I came to almost stand still it came back on again ? Does this give anyone any clues ?

This bike has self cancelling turn signals. Having them turn off when you take off from a stop and hit 10 mph is normal by design behavior. What is not normal is that they come back on when you stop again, and that you can't turn them on while moving. There is a speed pulse signal that comes from the speedometer, goes through the LCD display, then goes to the self cancel unit (inside the steering stem). I'm thinking something in that chain has gone bad or has bad connections. Do you have the wiring diagram?

Speed signal wire is white and blue out of the speedo and into pin 1 of the LCD, then it comes out as a speed pulse on a white and black wire from pin 17 and goes to the cancel unit. This kind of strange behavior is often from a missing or poor ground where the power backfeeds through some other path like the cancel unit.

[Zradene]

Thank you so much for this information. I will do some further investigations.

[Zradene]

Hi guys, I am still trying to locate where this fault regarding my indicators failing to switch on whilst driving. I swapped out the turn signal indicator relay today just to make sure it was not this. Still no luck... This time when I pulled up after the test and with the engine still running, I tried the indicators but nothing...I switched off the engine, tried the indicators once again and they worked. I then restarted the engine and the indicators once again worked ???. This is crazy.
I contacted a Honda mechanic to ask for advice, and he suggested the most likely reason for the problem was within the switch itself... I can't say I am convinced as the indicators and hazard lights will work when at a standstill, so how can it be the switch I am thinking? In the Clymer manual it mentions the turn signal control unit, and also a turn signal relay. Not exactly sure where these are located, but it certainly makes more sense to me that it is something other than the switch itseft which could be faulty. Looks like its time to start removing the plastics to investigate further.

[the_big_h]

You really need a wiring diagram, and some time (and maybe a magnifying glass) to figure it out.
It's actually NOT simple....
The Turn Signal Cancel Control Unit is actually located inside the steering stem. It doesn't look like any electric module you've ever seen before. It's a cylinder about 3/4" diameter, with wires coming out one end to a 6-pin connector, and a lever arm coming out the other end to tell the module the steering angle.
When you push the Turn Signal Switch either Left or Right, it does 2 things:
- it connects the output of the turn signal flasher (grey wire) to the Left or Right indicator bulb (orange or light-blue wire, respectively), AND
- it sends a momentary signal to the Cancel Control Unit, via the green/white wire (as long as you are pressing the switch left or right)
The Cancel Control Unit sees this signal on the green/white wire, and responds by grounding the blue/black wire for as long as it thinks the signal should keep flashing - until driver cancels the signal by depressing the button (I think this uses the pink wire), OR you have completed your turn or gone the prescribed distance.
The blue/black wire does 2 things:
- provides a ground to the Turn Signal Flasher, enabling it (allowing it to start flashing power from the white/green wire to the grey wire, from thence through the turn signal switch to the indicator bulbs, AND
- provides a ground to the Position Relay.
The Position Relay is a goofy arrangement. I think it is a throwback to when Honda originally added self-cancelling signals. It is a Normally Closed relay, that normally ties the Left and Right Position Lights (running lights) together. When you are indicating a turn, the Position Light on that side is switched off (in the Turn Signal Switch), so the indicator blinks Bright-Off-Bright-Off, instead of Bright-Dim-Bright-Dim. When you are finished indicating the turn, if the Signal was self-cancelled, the actual switch inside the Turn Signal Switch is left in the Indicating position. The Position light on that side sould not come on automatically, so they use the Position Relay to connect Left to Right, so both Left and Right Position (running) lights will be on.

So unless somebody has really butchered your wiring, the most likely explanation for your symptoms is a bad Turn Signal Cancel Control Unit.
I think you could confirm this by intentionally grounding the blue/black wire, and go for a ride. With this wire grounded, your turn signals should work. The only way to stop them from flashing would be to momentarily depress the Turn Signal Switch button. The Flasher may continue "flashing", but indicators should be not flashing because they get switched off (orange or light-blue wire gets disconnected from grey wire) when you depress the button. (If you take the turn signal switch apart, you see there is a slider inside that stays in the left or right position unless you depress the button. This is different from the 1200 self-cancelling, where a solenoid actually returned the switch to the centre position.)

If the turn signals work like this, then either the Cancel Control Unit is defective, or there is some badly damaged wiring going to it.
The Cancel Control Unit comes out from the bottom of the steering stem, I think WingAdmin has a video on here how to do it.

[Zradene]

Wow !. This is very informative, thank you so much for this information. I have some of the larger plastic panels off now, so I will start inspecting the wiring. From what I can see, apart from some foot board lights and the ring of fire lighting wiring which were crudely joined to the existing wiring (now removed), it looks at first glance from what I can see before taking off the nose fairing that the rest of the wiring looks untampered with. So this Turn Signal Cancel Control Unit (if faulty) could be stopping the indicators from working when driving at more than 10mph is what you are suggesting .....and could be the most likely cause for the issue. Ok, I will locate this unit and do as you suggest regarding temporally grounding the blue/black wire then do a test ride. I am hoping I can get to this unit without taking the nose fairing off, other wise it will be difficult to go for a test ride I would guess. I have a Clymer manual and have studied the wiring diagram, but as you mention it is not that easy to follow. My normal procedure for fault finding as an id card printer engineer is to swap out components to find out what has failed, not quite so easy with a Goldwing as I have no parts to swap out, so I will follow your suggestions at the weekend hopefully, and see how things go. I really appreciate you guys on this forum trying to help me with this issue. Big thank you to you all. Fred

[the_big_h]

The Cancel Control Unit is inside the steering stem, so can't really be seen unless removed. It comes out the bottom, I think it will take a lot of removals to get to the point of being able to remove it. But the wires come out the top, so I think if you just remove the ignition switch cover, the wires are accessible. The wiring diagram (and ebay pictures of the unit) show a white 6-pin connector on a short pigtail attached to the unit. I think this white connector may be inaccessible, inside the steering column. On the bike side, there is an extension cable that ends in brown 6-pin connector. If I recall, this brown 6-pin is on the left side, in a bracket with some other connectors. I can't recall if you need to remove the left tupperware, or if you can get to it from the top.
If you unplug the brown 6-pin connector, and jumper the blue/black pin on the bike side to ground, the signals should work unconditionally (no auto-cancel). You can leave the 6-pin disconnected for your test ride, it is only associated with signals auto-cancel, and will not affect any other systems on the bike.
You should download the color wiring diagrams from this site, I suspect they are much easier to follow than black-and-white clymer wiring diagrams.

[Zradene]

Hi, thank you for this information. I was working on the bike today and am struggling to remove the 2 rusty screws that hold the wind guard that covers the cancel control used. I was just about to make a start removing the nose fairing so I can get at these screws with an impact driver. I will see if I can pull up the connector far enough to jumper those wires. I will let you know how it goes later. Thanks again.

[Zradene]

Hi, I couldn't find a brown 6 pin plug on the left side of the bike, but there is one on the right.
Is this the plug you are referring to ? I have disconnected and the indicators still work. So if I leave this unplugged, if I do a test drive you suggest the indicators should work... sounds like a plan. I will give this a go.

[Zradene]

Just been for a test ride with the brown 6 pin plug on the right side of the bike disconnected, but still no indicators whilst driving. Maybe there is a brown connector hidden away on the left hand side of the bike. I will have to investigate further.

[bellboy40]

The 6 pin brown connector you are looking for (C90) is on the left side under the lower fairing. You will have to remove some tupperware to get access to it. It is in a row of connectors just above the left side fan. The third one from the left as you are looking at it with the lower fairing removed.

Connectors by left fan GL1500

[Zradene]

Hi, I have now managed to remove the necessary plastics to get to the various connectors on the left hand side of the bike as shown in the diagram supplied. I have at the moment only disconnected the 6 pin brown connector and was expecting the indicators to still work as mentioned in an earlier message, but they don't. I then realised I have not yet grounded the blue/black pin. I am now trying to work out which end of the disconnected brown plug connector do I ground ?, as I am not sure which end goes to the cancel control unit.

[Zradene]

Hi guys, I am delighted to inform you all that after shorting the Blue / Black wire, the indicators now work when driving. I have ordered a replacement cancel control unit and when it arrives I will fit this to cure the problem permanently. I want to thank all you guys who have given me help and advice on solving this problem. Thank you all so much. Without your help on this fantastic Goldwing Docs forum, I would never have been able to resolve the issue. Massive thanks to you all.
Fred