External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud


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GD2
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External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud

Post by GD2 »



In my mind, having an external fuel pump would make working on / replacing the fuel pump WAY easier. And possibly WAY cheaper.

1) I know there are a lot of folks who have eliminated their petcocks with no problem.
2) I know that finding an aftermarket fuel pump that pumps 1.5PSI is pretty hard to find.
3) I know that OEM Honda can cost $280-$400 ish.

There are a number of good quality, low-pressure fuel pumps. Here's one for instance:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07252S965/?tag=goldwingdocs-20 ... _lig_dp_it
It is 1.5-2.5PSI - a lot closer to spec than many of the aftermarket choices that we have.

Here is the Mfg specs page - p/n is 40163
https://facet-purolator.com/specifications/

If you could eliminate the petcock and drop this little guy in its' place, wouldn't that solve a lot of problems?

If I was to try that, than I assume that I would:
A) remove the fuel pump from the tank.
B) Run a hose down to the bottom of the tank and install the fuel sock over the end of it.
C) Make an extension for the "B" wire on top of the tank and run it to the + side of the fuel pump.
D) Run the GROUND of the fuel pump to a ground point.

Yes?

Opinions? Any mistakes in my install method?
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Re: External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud

Post by Rambozo »

The reason Honda added the petcock, is that the carbs are below the fuel level if the tank is half full or better. So, fuel can still syphon from the tank with a faulty needle valve. This can either empty the tank on the ground, or hydrolock the engine by filling a cylinder with fuel. (I've had both happen over the years on a bike or two)
Fuel can flow through most fuel pumps even if not running. There are some designs where this can't happen, but they are not common.
My petcock is currently sitting on my toolbox to be rebuilt one of these days as it was leaking. I'm in no hurry, but I would like it back before it's part of the Swiss cheese failure model.
In-tank pumps tend to last longer than external pumps as they are lubed and cooled by the fuel. What either pump can't do is sit around unused for long periods and worse be left to dry out. Losing the fuel pump is not a common fault on bikes that are ridden. Plenty 1500's with well over 100,000 miles on original pumps.

1.5-2 psi can be hard to find and is getting harder all the time. The only ones still being used in new setups, I know of, are low volume pulse pumps for power equipment. I have the same thing on my Ducati. The world is becoming all fuel injected. I even saw a chain saw the other day that was fuel injected.

The Facet is a decent pump, but the delivery pulses are not very smooth. I ran them on my modified 750 and ended up using two along with a fuel reservoir to keep the carbs fed. Of course that bike drank fuel like crazy. My big problem was that something inside Facet pumps are encased in some kind of epoxy and racing fuel or octane booster would destroy them in a few months. Still, they did the job and I just replaced them as needed until I found a tiny vane pump and low pressure regulator a year or so later.
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Re: External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud

Post by ct1500 »

GD2 wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:49 pm
Yes?
No on the wiring of pump directly to OEM pump wire without a relay unless you want to run the risk of frying your ECM not knowing what the amperage draw is.
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Re: External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud

Post by GD2 »

Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud

Post by GD2 »

FYI - according to the company that builds the Facet pump - "The 40163 will draw about 1.3amps."
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Re: External fuel pump idea - just thinking out loud

Post by Rambozo »

What I would be worried about is back EMF as the Facet is basically a solenoid. A flyback diode wouldn't be a bad idea. Same if you use a relay as that is also an inductive load.


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