Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.


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moses
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Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »



Hi my name is Mo based in the UK.
Sorry for the length of this post but I am very keen to give all the information I can in case someone can help.
The problem is the bike lurches forward and stalls when I try to put it in gear/any gear.
Last year the clutch fluid disappeared from its reservoir I suspected the slave cylinder I bled the system the clutch came back so I changed the engine oil and filter the bike ran fine after that, I ordered replacement seals for the slave cylinder in case it happened again.
After taking the bike out of winter storage at the beginning of this year 2023 all seemed fine, no fluid loss clutch operating well although did notice a bit clunky going into first gear but made a few trips no problem.
Next time out could not get the bike into gear without the bike lurching forward and stalling.
Clutch lever felt fine, fluid level fine.
I decided to change the seals in the slave cylinder flush and vacuum bleed the system through with Dot4, result clutch lever felt fine but
clutch still not working, checked the bushing in the clutch lever all seems well not worn, the bike has done around 50000 miles from new and was triked twelve years ago.
I was thinking it may be that the clutch plates are stuck. Now this is where it gets a bit strange with the engine off and in first gear when rocked back a forth its definitely in gear press the clutch lever and the bike rolls freely but as soon as the engine is running and I press the clutch lever and engage first gear the bike lurches forward and stalls. Head scratching time for me I'm in my mid seventies with a bit of mechanical knowledge but this has got me stumped any help offered by you kind folk on here will be much appreciated.
I don't know if this is related to the problem I've never been able to start the bike in gear always had to go back into neutral, also my reverse has started to play up when I pull the reverse lever out and into the up position the reverse switch/starter switch will not operate but if I fiddle with the reverse lever and move it back from its upright position the reverse will work although the reverse light R on the dash will not light but does light momentarily when the ignition is first switched on perhaps this is an adjustment issue.
Anyway Happy Days and looking forwards to tinkering with it some more and hopefully solving the problem.


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newday777
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by newday777 »

Happy New Year MO
When you have an empty master cylinder you need to bleed it at the master banjo bolt 1st, then the slave cylinder bleeder(or calipers on brakes)

The starter problem(not related to your clutch) is most likely a dirty/faulty reverse safety switch at the back end of the reverse lever(under the shelter panel). It also allows the neutral light to come back on in the down position when working properly.
Post back your findings and the fix you end up doing.

Sometimes you can clean it spraying in electrical contact cleaner and operating the switch. Otherwise it will need to be replaced with a new one.
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Thanks newday777 Happy New Year
As soon as I can get back to the shop I will try what you suggest thank you very much for your help and yes will report back.
Regards Mo.
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by offcenter »

Side stand switch bad?
If that switch is not working properly, it will kill the engine when you put it in gear.
Just my two cents...
Anyway, Happy New Year to you over in jolly old England!
George in Jersey.
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by WingAdmin »

Agree, it sounds like air in the clutch line. You're pulling in the clutch lever, but it's not disengaging the clutch entirely because some of the motion is being absorbed by compressing air bubbles. When you put it in gear, the partially engaged clutch kills the engine. Bleed it well (I recommend a vacuum bleeder) and I suspect your problem will be fixed.
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Hi Thanks for your input (offcenter) As its a trike I have removed the stand sometime ago and joined the wires through to simulate the stand being up.

And thanks for the input (WingAdmin) Just as soon as I can get into my garage I intend to carry out a re-bleed I have been advised by (Newday777) to crack the banjo bolt at the master cylinder and bleed there first which I intend to do, I will post back when I have completed the re-bleed. Whilst on the subject I have noticed that when I press the clutch lever this is after my first bleed the fluid inside the reservoir squirts upward not sure it should do that but may be it should that's why there is a plastic shield in there I don't know not sure anyway I'm going to re-bleed again in the next day or so.
Many thanks Regards Mo.
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by Andy Cote »

Replace the clutch hydraulic hose. Age related deterioration of the rubber allows swelling such that not all your lever effort is going to the clutch actuator.
2015 Goldwing, basic black

Previously: GL1200 standard, GL1200 Interstate, GL1500 Goldwing, GL1500 Valkyrie Standard, 2000 Valkyrie Interstate, many other Hondas
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

OK Everyone HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Finally got back into the workshop.
Carried out a Re-Bleed two or three times using the old manual method the reason being because I used a vacuum bleeder in the first place I thought I would go back to basics, Cracked the union at the master cylinder banjo bled there a number of times then to the slave cylinder bled that a number of times NO AIR BUBBLES DETECTED but guess what still no clutch it feels as though there is a clutch when the lever is pulled but still stalling the engine, when I say stalling the engine its definitely not just cutting the electrics to the engine the bike lurches forward and then stalls. Must admit I have not changed the flexible hose from the master down to the slave cylinder as was suggested by Andy Cote may be I will try that next providing I can locate one.
It would be nice if there were some way of removing the slave cylinder and testing its throw and pressure whilst pulling the lever?
what do you guys think?
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by Rambozo »

You could pull it and watch it cycle, but without something to simulate the clutch springs, it wouldn't be a good test.
Did you fix your clutch switch so you can start it in gear with the clutch pulled?
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newday777
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1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by newday777 »

Your post wasn't clear if you rebuilt the slave and did you scrape out the seal groove of any hardened gunk?
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Hi Rambozo.
No I haven't looked at that yet thought I needed to get the clutch working first.
Hi newday777
Yes I did change the seals in the slave cylinder it was spotlessly clean when new seals fitted, nothing in the groove.
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newday777
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Location: Milford NH summer/fall & Oceanside, CA winters(N San Diego) with lots of miles riden between
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by newday777 »

Mo
Has the bike been left in storage for a long time with old oil in it during it's life?
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Hi newday777
I've owned the bike for the last Twelve years or more the oil has been changed regularly in that time.
The oil was changed on the bike before it went into winter lock down at the end of 2022
In the spring 2023 the bike was used very little late summer the bike was used briefly for a very short journey then a couple of weeks after that the problem occurred would not go into gear.
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Ok everyone who is interested.
Have bled the clutch system again a third time, this time using my compressed air Vacuum Bleeder, the lever feels the same. If I listen carefully when applying the clutch lever I can hear what appears to be the clutch disengaging within the engine I will describe it as a sound similar to a gear turning then stops turning when the clutch lever is pulled. When in gear with the engine not running I can push the bike back and forth with the clutch lever pulled in when the lever is out the gears are engaged, but the bike still will not go into gear from neutral position with the engine running it clonks and stalls.
I have listened for the clicks on both switches on the clutch master cylinder lever both switches click in and out, I have removed the rear switch the one that clicks when the lever is fully in the contacts seem to work fine I have sprayed the internals with electrical lube I have tested the switch for continuity that's fine I have placed a volt meter on the wires going through the switch and it reads .56Volts is this correct ? Any more Ideas would be very helpful although I have limited knowledge about these things I'm determined to get to the bottom of this.
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newday777
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by newday777 »

Is the side stand up?
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Hi newday777
Because its a trike I have removed the side stand a year or two ago a wired it through fooling the bike into thinking its up.
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newday777
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by newday777 »

moses wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:28 am Hi newday777
Because its a trike I have removed the side stand a year or two ago a wired it through fooling the bike into thinking its up.
So the S dash light is off?
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Yes the dash stand light is permanently off.
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by Rambozo »

If you can push it with the clutch pulled in and in gear, the clutch is working fine. The clutch might be gummed up and dragging a little, but if you hold the brake and rev it up when putting it in gear, it should brake loose. The four cyl wings get this issue. Being able to start it in gear with the clutch pulled makes it easy to get it free. Once you get it free, I would add some Seafoam to the oil and run it a bit then change the oil to get out any gunk that might be in there.
Another option is to jack up the back and start it up. With it in gear and running, pull the clutch and add throttle and rear brake until things free up. With the wheels in the air, you can for sure tell if it's clutch drag that is killing the engine or something electrical.
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Hi Rambozo
Good advice Rambozo I will try that just as soon as I have sorted out the not starting when in gear problem, the trike has never started in gear since I've owned it some 12 years in fact it was only just recently that I found out that the 1500 should start with the clutch lever pulled fully in I have listened for the clicks on both switches on the clutch master cylinder lever both switches click in and out, I have removed the rear switch the one that clicks when the lever is fully in the contacts seem to work fine I have sprayed the internals with electrical lube I have tested the switch for continuity that's fine I have placed a volt meter on the wires going into the switch and it reads .56Volts once the switch is made I get the same reading .56V on the outgoing side is this correct ? Not sure what to look for after the switch I suppose there is a relay or something, any more Ideas would be very helpful although I have limited knowledge about these things I'm determined to get to the bottom of this.
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by Rambozo »

That switch is on the ground side of the circuit. Green/white should be grounded, and green/red should get grounded when the lever is pulled.
Be aware that the clutch has two switches. One for the starter interlock, and one for the cruise control cancel.
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by MikeB »

moses wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:02 am Hi Rambozo
Good advice Rambozo I will try that just as soon as I have sorted out the not starting when in gear problem, the trike has never started in gear since I've owned it some 12 years in fact it was only just recently that I found out that the 1500 should start with the clutch lever pulled fully in I have listened for the clicks on both switches on the clutch master cylinder lever both switches click in and out, I have removed the rear switch the one that clicks when the lever is fully in the contacts seem to work fine I have sprayed the internals with electrical lube I have tested the switch for continuity that's fine I have placed a volt meter on the wires going into the switch and it reads .56Volts once the switch is made I get the same reading .56V on the outgoing side is this correct ? Not sure what to look for after the switch I suppose there is a relay or something, any more Ideas would be very helpful although I have limited knowledge about these things I'm determined to get to the bottom of this.
I have read through all the posts so far and am as stumped as you are. One thing related to not starting in gear is, if you have after market grips, they may be too large to allow the clutch handle to come all the way in and not allowing the seconds clutch switch to engage. However, from reading your narrative it appears that the switch is actually working but it is hard to troubleshoot without actually hearing and feeling the lever operation.

I do not know what any voltage reading would be at the switch but I do know that the switch should have no continuity at rest and be a short (read 0 ohms) when the lever is depressed. I would disconnect the wires and then test the switch operation.


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USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

Hi Mike B and Hi Rambozo
No after market grips fitted.
As said before can hear both switches clicking in and out, the cruise control switch when the clutch lever is pressed then released slightly, then the clutch switch when the clutch lever is fully pressed, I then removed the clutch switch I could see the contact through a hole in the switch solidly making and breaking when the switch button was depressed and released there was continuity through both terminals when the contacts within the switch were made.
Looking at the wiring diagram it looks as though the green/red wire at the Clutch Switch comes from a Diode Assembly which in turn is linked to a Reverse Relay Switch looks rather complicated to me I suppose it could be a problem further back what do you guys think?
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moses
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by moses »

To everyone interested.
YABBA DABBA DOO all sorted out now.
First of all I should like to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my post without people like you people like me would struggle all the more THANK YOU.
In the end I had traced the wiring from where the side stand used to be up through the clutch switch then beyond through the frame to the Diode assembly I found a damaged cable once repaired the trike goes in and out of gear and I can start the trike when in gear something I have never been able to do during my 12 years of ownership apart from solving the immediate problem having delved into the bike has helped me understand it all the more.
By the way one thing I have found out through all this is an awful lot of parts particularly here in the UK are no longer available for the 1500 that in itself is very worrying don't you think?
Kind regards Mo.
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MikeB
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Re: Bike Lurches forward and stalls when put in gear.

Post by MikeB »

Good deal, Moses. So happy you got it all sorted out. There is nothing worse with our bikes than an elusive malfunction. Good job.


MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/195,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/32,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
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