GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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fkat288
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GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »



Dear fellow Goldwingers,
I am a newly signed up member of this forum although I’ve been ready your posts and Goldwing Doc videos for quite a while now.
I have a few Wings from 1977 to 1997 models. I have a mysterious problem with my 97 SE that I purchased 3 months ago. few days ago I took her out, during the first 10 minutes of ride on the fwy I could smell an electrical burn. I stopped at a gas station to check and realized I could not shut off the ignition/engine by the key. I used the kill switch, engine is off but ignition was still on, didn’t make a difference even when I pull the whole key out. I was able to restart the engine again and went home. Only way to shut off the ignition was to pull out the main 60A fuse (bless the former owner’s heart, he upgraded to the blade fuse). After everything is shut off I put the fuse back, everything is quite. I turn the ignition key on, everything lights up as normal, start the engine no problem but same thing, cannot shut down with the key.

Today I started digging into it and found the 5A headlight relay fuse was literally melted (see pic). Wonder why it didn’t pop the fuse to stop the current but was allow to heat up and melt, must be a defective fuse. (This fuse did burned out last month for no apparent reason, I replaced the fuse and headlight came back).

I replaced the fuse (temporarily using a 7.5A because I don’t have 5A on hand), start the bike as normal, and same thing, cannot shut off.
Interestingly I pull the headlight relay fuse out, the bike can shut off normally, start normally, everything functions, including the headlights, …..WHY???

Since it is working normally without that fuse in the holder, should I ride it?

Fellow Goldwingers, I know among you guys there are a wealth of knowledge of all scenarios. If anyone has any experience, knowledge, cause, or solution in my case, please let me know. I’ll be very grateful.
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Rambozo
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by Rambozo »

Do you have a trailer connector, or aftermarket lights?
That the headlight works without the fuse makes me think you might have a relay with welded contacts.
fkat288
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Motorcycle: 97 & 93 GL1500. 72 & 75 CB750. 80 and 82 GL1100. 77 GL1000, 04 Rune, 09 Harley Springer CVO, 2015 Triumph T214.....

Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »

Hi Rambozo,
Thanks for replying!

Yes, she came with previously installed hitch and light connection but I never used it.
Yes, has after market driving LED lights with a separate switch. They are not controlled by the headlight replay.

After I saw your reply I went to swap the headlight relay with another one, the result is exactly the same. Headlights came on with ignition.

The "Blue relay" designated as "Position". Anyone knows what function is it?

Thanks!
Fred
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by Rambozo »

It is for the position lights on each side of the headlight, the dim filament of the turn signals.
You need to test the relays, not swap them. And I would check them all as any that are stuck on could be backfeeding power.
Swapping will not tell you if the contacts are welded for most relays as they only get power when the key is on and so would appear normal.
If you don't have a way to test them for function, you can at least test for welded contacts by putting them in the relay #3 socket with the key off and see if any lights come on.
If you have the wiring diagram and a voltmeter you can start tracing out the power to see what is wrong.
Trailer isolators can also backfeed if they go bad. Any non-factory lighting is suspect until verified. For some reason people that know nothing about electrics think they can add lights to their GoldWing. Usually without a wiring diagram or a clue. You can search this forum for crazy examples of what they can do.
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gipsy42
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by gipsy42 »

May I chime in?
To my knowledge when that happens is because the alternator is feeding back power to the ignition, thus preventing to stop the engine by the ignition switch.
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by Rambozo »

Yes, the alternator can be what is backfeeding the power. You can measure it at relay 6.
fkat288
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »

Hi Rambozo and Gipsy42, thank you for your advises. I do have a test meter, I'll test the relays. I see 2 of the relay blades are copper and the other 2 are aluminum color. I figure the 2 that is open is the contact, the 2 has a resistance reading must be the coil.

I'll keep digging and will report once I find the solution.

Right now, if I unplug the headlight replay fuse (5A), all works normal. Engine/ignition comes on, shuts off with key. All functions and lights are normal.
Thanks!
Fred
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by WingAdmin »

When a fuse melts like that, it is one of two causes:

The first one is fraudulent fuses:


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The second, more common cause, is corrosion or dirt. If there is corrosion on the fuse or the terminals, it causes resistance. When current encounters resistance, it generates heat. Heat causes more corrosion, which causes more resistance. Eventually it can generate enough heat to melt things.

This is the same exact thing that melts the "three yellow wire" stator connector on four-cylinder Wings.
fkat288
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »

Hi Wingadmin, thank you.
I believe it is a defective fuse that did not pop when exceeded the 5 amp protection rating.

Today I check all the relays with a test meter, all black ones are good- 2 legs has similar resistance 98 ohms, and other 2 are open. However the blue "position" relay 2 of the legs has a1.5 ohm reading, likely welded shut, but lights work ok as normal.

One more interesting diagnose, I pull the 60A main fuse completely out everything work normal: key on, ignition on, engine starts. key off, ignition off, engine stops. How can all functions work normal with the main fuse/main power disconnected?

Rambozo and Gipsy42 mentioned "back feed from alternator", look like this is probably the case. But what is causing that? defective alternator? wirings?

Thanks!
Fred
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by Rambozo »

The blue relay is normally closed, so it sounds ok.
Always a good idea to test relays with power to have them cycle.
Honda even spells that out in the service manual.
fkat288
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »

Hi Rambozo, to test the relays with power you mean to manually feed 12v to the primary and see if I can hear the click?
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by Rambozo »

Close, but not quite. Just hearing the click doesn't tell you it's working. Feed power to the coil and measure resistance across the contacts. Should go from open circuit to pretty close to zero ohms when energized. If it's like higher than 10 ohms, than the contacts are carboned or pitted and time to replace.

I've seen plenty of relays that click just fine but have bad contacts. Some I've opened to find the contacts melted into slag.
fkat288
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Motorcycle: 97 & 93 GL1500. 72 & 75 CB750. 80 and 82 GL1100. 77 GL1000, 04 Rune, 09 Harley Springer CVO, 2015 Triumph T214.....

Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »

Hi Rambozo,

Thank you! I'll do that test. I also bought a relay from the G-Doc site, may buy more after test.

Now that I left the main fuse out overnight bike mysteriously working normal, key can turn on and off. maybe the ECU reset itself?

I also open the panel and check the alternator, looks like it's been replaced before (used), there's pen marker says 96, my Wing is a 97. I saw the connector laying on top of the alternator, not sure if it is related to the alternator (see picture), a green wire sticking out not connected to anything. Does anyone know if this is normal? is it supposed to be a ground wire? I know in the electrical code green is designed for ground, but in vehicles not always, black usually is.
Any input is much appreciated.
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MikeB
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by MikeB »

That appears to be a Compufire high output alternator. That extra wire is just that, extra. That connector may have been commandeered from somewhere else. The alternator only uses one wire for its excitation.
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Rambozo
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Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by Rambozo »

Depending on model and options like CB, some have noise filters that use a green and black wire. Some look like a points condenser while other are just a black box full of epoxy.
fkat288
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Motorcycle: 97 & 93 GL1500. 72 & 75 CB750. 80 and 82 GL1100. 77 GL1000, 04 Rune, 09 Harley Springer CVO, 2015 Triumph T214.....

Re: GL1500 engine cannot shut off by ignition key

Post by fkat288 »

Hi MikeB and Rambozo, thank you for your expertise, much appreciated!
Right now she is working normally, I will keep on observing and report.
Fred


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