Battery Ground
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- Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 SE Canadian Edition
Battery Ground
Hello everyone!
I've posted several times about my 92 GL1500 blowing up alternators at random times.
I've purchased 4 alternators and had them all rebuilt - totalling over $1500.
The latest one has gone again. I've tried many things to no avail as my older posts indicate.
I was wondering if I should just replace the battery ground cable? Maybe there's something wonky with the cable and wanted to eliminate that as a possible reason for the failures.
There is a 2nd dogbone fuse under the seat which is connected to the battery negative and then goes down under somewhere.
If I simply attach another brand new cable and bolt it to ground somewhere on the frame, would that eliminate any issue the original NEG cable might be causing?
I would of course disconnect the original NEG battery cable and connect an in line fuse of some sort to the new one.
Can anyone verify if this is all I would need to do? Or is there somewhere else the NEG cable needs to go that I'm not aware of?
Thanks again everyone!
I've posted several times about my 92 GL1500 blowing up alternators at random times.
I've purchased 4 alternators and had them all rebuilt - totalling over $1500.
The latest one has gone again. I've tried many things to no avail as my older posts indicate.
I was wondering if I should just replace the battery ground cable? Maybe there's something wonky with the cable and wanted to eliminate that as a possible reason for the failures.
There is a 2nd dogbone fuse under the seat which is connected to the battery negative and then goes down under somewhere.
If I simply attach another brand new cable and bolt it to ground somewhere on the frame, would that eliminate any issue the original NEG cable might be causing?
I would of course disconnect the original NEG battery cable and connect an in line fuse of some sort to the new one.
Can anyone verify if this is all I would need to do? Or is there somewhere else the NEG cable needs to go that I'm not aware of?
Thanks again everyone!
- MikeB
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Re: Battery Ground
I doubt that the negative battery cable has anything to do with your alternator issues
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
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Retired in Tacoma, WA
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- Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 SE Canadian Edition
Re: Battery Ground
Ok folks, I just had a thought.
Received a LR140 Hitachi which I've installed and works so far.
In doing so, I replaced the dogbone fuse with an inline fuse.
As I took my first drive on it today, as I idled for a few minutes, all power was lost.
I checked the main fuse and it had blown. Replaced it and I was good until it blew a 2nd time.
I'm thinking probably because the battery was not fully charged, and the alternator was putting out too much current to try and charge it up.
The radio was dying when I pressed the handbrake etc. Obviously this alternator only produced power at a certain RPM as I had to rev it to get the lights to brighten.
Anyway, after I put in the replacement fuse, there was no power when turning on the key. It acted as though the dogbone was broken/missing.
I moved the entire housing of the dogbone (which I replaced with inline fuse), back and forth and the power came on!
So I'm thinking that this connection seems a little intermittent so could that be why the alternators are failing?
Disconnecting the dogbone fuse is akin to disconnecting the battery while the engine is running. No?
That is a dangerous thing to do with any running engine.
So if this intermittent connection is not connecting at times, voltage could theoretically build up at the alternator and zap the internals of the alternator IMHO.
Which is exactly what's been happening.
I'm going to remove the dogbone housing altogether and just connect the inline fuse directly to the wiring instead.
Thoughts?
Received a LR140 Hitachi which I've installed and works so far.
In doing so, I replaced the dogbone fuse with an inline fuse.
As I took my first drive on it today, as I idled for a few minutes, all power was lost.
I checked the main fuse and it had blown. Replaced it and I was good until it blew a 2nd time.
I'm thinking probably because the battery was not fully charged, and the alternator was putting out too much current to try and charge it up.
The radio was dying when I pressed the handbrake etc. Obviously this alternator only produced power at a certain RPM as I had to rev it to get the lights to brighten.
Anyway, after I put in the replacement fuse, there was no power when turning on the key. It acted as though the dogbone was broken/missing.
I moved the entire housing of the dogbone (which I replaced with inline fuse), back and forth and the power came on!
So I'm thinking that this connection seems a little intermittent so could that be why the alternators are failing?
Disconnecting the dogbone fuse is akin to disconnecting the battery while the engine is running. No?
That is a dangerous thing to do with any running engine.
So if this intermittent connection is not connecting at times, voltage could theoretically build up at the alternator and zap the internals of the alternator IMHO.
Which is exactly what's been happening.
I'm going to remove the dogbone housing altogether and just connect the inline fuse directly to the wiring instead.
Thoughts?
- WingAdmin
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Re: Battery Ground
The main (dogbone) fuse is sized for the stock alternator. If the battery is discharged (say from 10 seconds of cranking), it will demand ALL the current that the alternator can provide to charge back up.
If the stock alternator can provide 40 amps, and there is say a 50 amp fuse, that's fine, it will charge the battery with the 40 amps coming from the alternator.
If the replacement alternator can provide 70 amps, the battery will demand all 70 amps, and the 50 amp fuse will blow.
Basically, the fuse has to be matched to the capacity of the alternator (and the wiring supporting it).
If the stock alternator can provide 40 amps, and there is say a 50 amp fuse, that's fine, it will charge the battery with the 40 amps coming from the alternator.
If the replacement alternator can provide 70 amps, the battery will demand all 70 amps, and the 50 amp fuse will blow.
Basically, the fuse has to be matched to the capacity of the alternator (and the wiring supporting it).
- MikeB
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Re: Battery Ground
My thoughts are, use the original Honda wiring and "dog bone" set up, but make sure all wires and connections are in excellent condition. If the wiring is in shabby condition, replace it. You need the best current carrying capability you can get.
Honda's wiring and fuse design has worked sine 1988 for just abut everyone. Don't try to re-engineer it unless you are an engineer.
Also, if you have a high output alternator, use the double fuse set up specified in the Compu-Fire® instructions. This set up has worked well for me for the last 20 years.
Honda's wiring and fuse design has worked sine 1988 for just abut everyone. Don't try to re-engineer it unless you are an engineer.
Also, if you have a high output alternator, use the double fuse set up specified in the Compu-Fire® instructions. This set up has worked well for me for the last 20 years.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
- paseandoconhonda
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Re: Battery Ground
I have friends with GL 1500 who, like you, have changed 2 or 3 alternators, until they put a cable from the support nut to the battery negative and they never burned again. Believe it or not. I put it.
At night and at 100 it is not noticeable.
- MikeB
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Previous
SOLD 1999 - GL1500, 161K Miles
SOLD 2003 - GL1800 ABS w/117K - Sold
SOLD 2003 - GL1800 w/67K Miles
SOLD 2001 - ST1100 w/33K Miles - Contact:
Re: Battery Ground
If that extra ground cable is really needed it is because the engine to frame attaching points are rusty, corroded or covered in paint.paseandoconhonda wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:50 pm I have friends with GL 1500 who, like you, have changed 2 or 3 alternators, until they put a cable from the support nut to the battery negative and they never burned again. Believe it or not. I put it.
The alternator is bolted to the engine. The engine is bolted to the frame. The ground should be sound.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
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- paseandoconhonda
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Re: Battery Ground
What you say is correct, but time can also cause all of that together.
At night and at 100 it is not noticeable.
- landisr
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Re: Battery Ground
I don't recall there being a second dogbone fuse off the negative post/cable. Others here can confirm or dispute. But if that circuit is a product of a previous owner's creativity, I would disconnect it immediately to see if your problem (s) clear up.
Ron in AZ
I'm not so sure about an inner child, but I have an inner idiot that surfaces every now and then..
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- MikeB
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Re: Battery Ground
Yes, there is a second dog bone fuse. It is the 65 Amp speed limiter fuse.
It is in fact connected to the ground cable. You can find it on page 3-32 of the service manual.
Here is a picture of the fuse location: And, while I was thinking about the ground cable, perhaps it is possible that it can effect the alternator. Since the negative terminal of the battery is connected to the engine and not the alternator, a faulty connection on either end of that cable could tax the alternator.
So, as many individuals have said multiple times in so many different posts about battery/alternator connections, make sure the negative terminals are clean and shiny where they are supposed to be making electrical connection on the battery, engine and frame. That way, there should be no reason to have auxiliary ground wires connected anywhere on the alternator, engine or battery.
It is in fact connected to the ground cable. You can find it on page 3-32 of the service manual.
Here is a picture of the fuse location: And, while I was thinking about the ground cable, perhaps it is possible that it can effect the alternator. Since the negative terminal of the battery is connected to the engine and not the alternator, a faulty connection on either end of that cable could tax the alternator.
So, as many individuals have said multiple times in so many different posts about battery/alternator connections, make sure the negative terminals are clean and shiny where they are supposed to be making electrical connection on the battery, engine and frame. That way, there should be no reason to have auxiliary ground wires connected anywhere on the alternator, engine or battery.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
- landisr
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Re: Battery Ground
Thanks for that. Speaking of which, it came to my attention last night that it is time for some maintenance on the ground points in my bike. So my question is, once I have cleaned up the cable ends and contact points should I put some di- grease on them when bolting up or bolt up and seal the area when done?
I'm not so sure about an inner child, but I have an inner idiot that surfaces every now and then..
Avatar taken at the Pine Breeze Inn, famous from Easy Rider.
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SOLD 2003 - GL1800 w/67K Miles
SOLD 2001 - ST1100 w/33K Miles - Contact:
Re: Battery Ground
When the ground points are clean and shiny, some Vaseline, silicone dielectric grease or even better, DeokIT cleaner can be used to coat and prevent corrosion at the contact points. I guess the key would be to make sure there is something on the contact points to prevent corrosion and oxidation.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
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- paseandoconhonda
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Re: Battery Ground
That the engine is "bolted" to the chassis is relative because it has rubber to prevent vibrations to the chassis.MikeB wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:13 pmIf that extra ground cable is really needed it is because the engine to frame attaching points are rusty, corroded or covered in paint.paseandoconhonda wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:50 pm I have friends with GL 1500 who, like you, have changed 2 or 3 alternators, until they put a cable from the support nut to the battery negative and they never burned again. Believe it or not. I put it.
The alternator is bolted to the engine. The engine is bolted to the frame. The ground should be sound.
At night and at 100 it is not noticeable.
- MikeB
- Posts: 4137
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
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1998 - GL1500 Aspencade
205K Miles
2017 - GL1800 Audio Comfort
46K Miles
Previous
SOLD 1999 - GL1500, 161K Miles
SOLD 2003 - GL1800 ABS w/117K - Sold
SOLD 2003 - GL1800 w/67K Miles
SOLD 2001 - ST1100 w/33K Miles - Contact:
Re: Battery Ground
The engine is also electrically grounded to the frame.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
- paseandoconhonda
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Re: Battery Ground
And it is precisely that or those connections that we are talking about, if they fail, which would not be strange with cables that are more than 30 years old, your alternator dies. Putting a direct cable from the alternator to the negative of the battery is not a crazy idea, it costs nothing and can save you a useless expense with just a couple of dollars. It's not putting a rocket on the moon, it's just 50 cm of cable.
At night and at 100 it is not noticeable.
- 4given
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Re: Battery Ground
Or, clean up the already existing ground cnnections.
“Fight the fight and do what is right“
- paseandoconhonda
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Re: Battery Ground
Did you know that cables also suffer from cholesterol?
At night and at 100 it is not noticeable.
- Charlie1Horse
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Re: Battery Ground
To test for a bad ground between the engine and the frame use a volt meter and attach one end to the ground post of the battery and the other end to the engine. If the grounds are corroded or loose, you should see a voltage reading but, if the grounds are clean and tight, there should be no voltage reading. And yes, use some dielectric grease on any connector you reconnect. It may not promote connectivity but, it will keep moisture out which causes oxidation, corrosion, resistance, and heat which can possibly cause fire.
Russell
Russell
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