GL1500 1994 aspencade not starting

[samb31]

Hey guys this is my first post on the forum. I have been eyeballing Goldwings for a while now, but recently found one listed for 1000 dollars, that claimed it was running any driving. So I get the trailer and go look at it. Turns out it wasn't driving but the guy claimed it just needed a starter. I used this to negotiate the price to 900 (I still thought he should have moved further) but I really wasn't that worried that I could get it running because he had a video of it running a few months ago. So the first thing I did was change the starter and obviously that wasn't the fix, and even tested the old starter by hooking it to 12 volts. No biggy, I thought it must just be the Solenoid or the wiring. So I try to just jump the solenoid with a screw driver and that worked, the motor started turning over but still wasn't firing. I then realized that the fuel pump wasn't running when I was turning the bike on (I'm pretty sure its supposed to) yet again thought no biggie and just jumped the fuel pump to the battery to make sure it was getting gas while jumping the starter but it was still starting. I also just tried spraying starter fluid straight into the carbs and got the same result. I want to say during this I was doing all combinations of make sure the kill switch is in the on position, and making sure those screws aren't loose for the switch. Pulling the clutch and and making sure the kickstand is up. So then I wanted to verify if I was getting spark, sadly, I didn't have an 18mm so I couldn't pull it out, but I did track the spark plug wires to what I think y'all call the pulse generator, so I stick a probe on the hot end and verify that it was getting voltage when pressing the button. At this point I am at a loss on things to try, the motor sounds good turning over but I don't hear any combustion going on at all. I was wondering if anyone had and advice or ideas I could try, I really don't want to throw much money at this thing until it cranks. Thanks in advanced, hopefully I can get the beautiful beast back on the road where she belongs.

[Rambozo]

The first thing on a 1500 is to make sure the battery is fully charged and in tip top condition. You can measure the voltage while cranking the starter to make sure you have 11 volts or better. For whatever reason Honda made it so this bike loses spark first as the voltage falls below 10.5 volts. Most bikes lose the starter before losing spark.
The fuel pump doesn't run when you turn on the key. It only runs when there are active ignition pulses.
There are safeties for kick stand, reverse, neutral, clutch, that can kill ignition and or starter. If the various warning lights are going off and on, then they are most likely working. If you have no lights except the bulb test when you first turn on the key, you may have some bad safety switch.
The factory service manual can be a big help for this bike. Also look in the saddlebags for the factory tool kit as it will have the 18mm plug socket and is a pretty good tool kit.

The plug wires go to the ignition coils, the pulse generators are on the front of the crankshaft to send timing signals to the ECU. You can measure the voltage you have at the coils when cranking to verify a few things.

If your battery isn't great you can jump with a car battery to see if that starts it.

[samb31]

Thanks for the response! I will verify those things tomorrow and let you know what I find!

[samb31]

The first thing on a 1500 is to make sure the battery is fully charged and in tip top condition. You can measure the voltage while cranking the starter to make sure you have 11 volts or better. For whatever reason Honda made it so this bike loses spark first as the voltage falls below 10.5 volts. Most bikes lose the starter before losing spark.
The fuel pump doesn't run when you turn on the key. It only runs when there are active ignition pulses.
There are safeties for kick stand, reverse, neutral, clutch, that can kill ignition and or starter. If the various warning lights are going off and on, then they are most likely working. If you have no lights except the bulb test when you first turn on the key, you may have some bad safety switch.
The factory service manual can be a big help for this bike. Also look in the saddlebags for the factory tool kit as it will have the 18mm plug socket and is a pretty good tool kit.

The plug wires go to the ignition coils, the pulse generators are on the front of the crankshaft to send timing signals to the ECU. You can measure the voltage you have at the coils when cranking to verify a few things.

If your battery isn't great you can jump with a car battery to see if that starts it.

Ok so I got another day to take a crack at it. We did take the air box off and verify we were getting well over 10.5 volts to the pulse generators. We also did find the 18mm in what was left in the toolkit(can't believe I missed the tool I needed was on the bike) we took the plugs out and they didn't look flooded or fouled. They also were not generating spark. After too many hours of reading, I really am pretty convinced that the ECU is at fault, I order one from a 1993 for 100 dollars, I feel like it is worth the risk because the only other thing would be both generators are faulty. I think that would be pretty unlikely. When I combine that with the fact the fuel pump is good but never running when spinning the starter I am pretty confident its the ECU. Hopefully a pro can let know if this was a good call, but if it isn't the computer then I really have no idea what it could be. Will update with my finding just in case anybody else ever runs into this weird set of circumstances.

[Rambozo]

What is the voltage when cranking?

ECU failure is very rare, with the exception of the MOSFET that runs the fuel pump. It will die if the pump goes bad, but it can be replaced.

1500's will often fail to start when cranking the starter, but will start right when you let off the starter button. This is about the only warning you get that it is time for a new battery. Obviously, this only happens on bikes that are in great running condition as it starts as the motor is coasting down from the starter.
The difference in cranking speed between a battery that can start the engine vs one that can't is almost undetectable without a voltmeter.

[tobeerortobike]

Welcome to the forum! I'm new to Goldwings, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

That said, it's usually best to verify a part is not functioning before going ahead and replacing it. From my experience on other bikes, you can save yourself a lot of time and money with a multimeter and some time spent diagnosing. Electrical problems can be frustrating, but tracking down where your fault is coming from will help massively. When you are checking for spark from the plugs, make sure they are grounded to something. I have an electrical diagnostic manual that came with my bike - see if you can find a PDF copy online or order a paper copy. A repair manual will be a huge help - the forum is incredibly helpful, but you will never have to wait for a repair manual to respond to your question.

I had a no-spark condition for half the cylinders on my Kawasaki a few months back, and determined it was the ignition coil. Make sure you check your ignition wires and coils carefully, in my experience these are the most common source of a no-spark condition.

Next up, I would say a thorough carb cleaning should probably be on your to-do list. If you fix the spark issue and the bike runs - a few tanks of fresh gas + sea foam would probably suffice, but good to get carbs apart and clean while you already have the bike apart. If you already have the airbox and everything removed, it shouldn't be too much extra effort to pull the carbs. (I've never had to pull the carbs on my Wing, so again grain of salt). If a bike has been sitting and not running, the carburetors are usually the first thing to gum up and cause a no start - especially if the previous owner didn't run non-ethanol. It's good to inspect the gas tank as well. Gas sitting in a fuel tank for even a few months will go bad and can rust your tank out. Will not hurt to replace the fuel filter while you have the bike apart - super cheap part and an easy job, and can save your carburetors from any debris that might have accumulated in the tank while the bike sat.

In my time spent buying used bikes, I've learned to not trust anything the previous owners told me. The guy who sold me my first bike said the carburetors had been freshly and professionally rebuilt - when I took them apart, I found that two of the slides had been installed crooked - meaning that my bike would never have run right.

All that said, best of luck with the project! Definitely update when you've made progress - nothing worse than finding someone with your same issue, and they never posted how they resolved it. Would love to see a pic of the bike when you get it back together.

[samb31]

What is the voltage when cranking?

ECU failure is very rare, with the exception of the MOSFET that runs the fuel pump. It will die if the pump goes bad, but it can be replaced.

1500's will often fail to start when cranking the starter, but will start right when you let off the starter button. This is about the only warning you get that it is time for a new battery. Obviously, this only happens on bikes that are in great running condition as it starts as the motor is coasting down from the starter.
The difference in cranking speed between a battery that can start the engine vs one that can't is almost undetectable without a voltmeter.

I was pretty determined it was the battery at first as well, but it appears to be a new AGM battery, and while we had it hooked up to a charger just to be sure we were at about 12.7 while cranking, and we verified we were getting over 10.5 volts to the pulse generators while cranking. The main thing that leads me to the ECU is that the fuel pump isn't turning on even though it is fully functional when jumped to the battery that along with the no spark.

[samb31]

Welcome to the forum! I'm new to Goldwings, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

That said, it's usually best to verify a part is not functioning before going ahead and replacing it. From my experience on other bikes, you can save yourself a lot of time and money with a multimeter and some time spent diagnosing. Electrical problems can be frustrating, but tracking down where your fault is coming from will help massively. When you are checking for spark from the plugs, make sure they are grounded to something. I have an electrical diagnostic manual that came with my bike - see if you can find a PDF copy online or order a paper copy. A repair manual will be a huge help - the forum is incredibly helpful, but you will never have to wait for a repair manual to respond to your question.

I had a no-spark condition for half the cylinders on my Kawasaki a few months back, and determined it was the ignition coil. Make sure you check your ignition wires and coils carefully, in my experience these are the most common source of a no-spark condition.

Next up, I would say a thorough carb cleaning should probably be on your to-do list. If you fix the spark issue and the bike runs - a few tanks of fresh gas + sea foam would probably suffice, but good to get carbs apart and clean while you already have the bike apart. If you already have the airbox and everything removed, it shouldn't be too much extra effort to pull the carbs. (I've never had to pull the carbs on my Wing, so again grain of salt). If a bike has been sitting and not running, the carburetors are usually the first thing to gum up and cause a no start - especially if the previous owner didn't run non-ethanol. It's good to inspect the gas tank as well. Gas sitting in a fuel tank for even a few months will go bad and can rust your tank out. Will not hurt to replace the fuel filter while you have the bike apart - super cheap part and an easy job, and can save your carburetors from any debris that might have accumulated in the tank while the bike sat.

In my time spent buying used bikes, I've learned to not trust anything the previous owners told me. The guy who sold me my first bike said the carburetors had been freshly and professionally rebuilt - when I took them apart, I found that two of the slides had been installed crooked - meaning that my bike would never have run right.

All that said, best of luck with the project! Definitely update when you've made progress - nothing worse than finding someone with your same issue, and they never posted how they resolved it. Would love to see a pic of the bike when you get it back together.

I agree I'm usually not a fan of throwing parts at it, but I don't exactly know a good way to test the ECU directly, I am pretty confident mainly because all the voltage is reaching where it is supposed to such as the Pulse generators, and the Fuel pump works but is not receiving voltage. and when researching it seems to point at the ECU. I hope I hit is lucky, but if this doesn't work then I will be at a loss and have no idea what else it could be.

[Rambozo]

The fuel pump output is dependent on having spark. Fix the no spark and that will likely take care of your fuel pump.

The pulse generators are mounted inside the timing belt cover around the crankshaft. I suspect you are talking about the ignition coils. 10.5 volts at the coils is right on the edge, so depending on your bike you won't have spark at that low a voltage. You should see full battery voltage at the coils while cranking. On a bike this old a little corrosion at each connector between the battery and the ECU and ignition coils you lose a little voltage at each one. Some have had to add a relay to get power directly from the battry to the ECU and coils to allow easy starts especially in cold weather where you may have to crank for more than a second or two. The best way to test this is to run a 14ga or better wire from the battery right to the ECU and/or coils to give them some help.

You still haven't answered what is your battery voltage when cranking and what is it at the coils?

There is no real test for the ECU apart from a bench test with lab equipment. However, you can test all the inputs and outputs that go to the ECU to verify that it is getting all the signals required. If it gets all the right inputs but has wrong outputs, it is bad. You can also do things like measure the current drawn by the ECU to see that it falls in the normal range. If it consumes no power, or way too much, it's bad.

[samb31]

The fuel pump output is dependent on having spark. Fix the no spark and that will likely take care of your fuel pump.

The pulse generators are mounted inside the timing belt cover around the crankshaft. I suspect you are talking about the ignition coils. 10.5 volts at the coils is right on the edge, so depending on your bike you won't have spark at that low a voltage. You should see full battery voltage at the coils while cranking. On a bike this old a little corrosion at each connector between the battery and the ECU and ignition coils you lose a little voltage at each one. Some have had to add a relay to get power directly from the battry to the ECU and coils to allow easy starts especially in cold weather where you may have to crank for more than a second or two. The best way to test this is to run a 14ga or better wire from the battery right to the ECU and/or coils to give them some help.

You still haven't answered what is your battery voltage when cranking and what is it at the coils?

There is no real test for the ECU apart from a bench test with lab equipment. However, you can test all the inputs and outputs that go to the ECU to verify that it is getting all the signals required. If it gets all the right inputs but has wrong outputs, it is bad. You can also do things like measure the current drawn by the ECU to see that it falls in the normal range. If it consumes no power, or way too much, it's bad.

Ignition.jpg

Sorry it has been a few days since I did it, but it was roughly 12.7 while cranking, and I believe around 11.9 at the coils (you are right I was talking about the coils not the PGs), the new ECU comes in today (I felt 100 was worth the risk. at the very least I can just sell it if it doesn't work), so I will give that a try, if not I will definitely give the 14 gauge wire jump a try. I will update the post with what I find. Thank you so much for your help!

[Rambozo]

11.9 should fire up no problem.

If it turns out not to be the ECU, check the pulse generator coils. I seem to remember they should be 300 ohms, or maybe 500? Search here or check the service manual for the right number. They are a known failure item on some 1500s.

[samb31]

11.9 should fire up no problem.

If it turns out not to be the ECU, check the pulse generator coils. I seem to remember they should be 300 ohms, or maybe 500? Search here or check the service manual for the right number. They are a known failure item on some 1500s.

Well turns out you are right new ECU no difference. I found the PG plug and read the ohms one read 440 and the other didn’t read. So it does look like I have a bad PG. I found one of the 2 for sale even though neither claimed they are working, but one question I have is with the PG dead will that cause the fuel pump not to run, also shouldn’t the bike at least try to start with one PG?

[Rambozo]

No, without spark the fuel pump will not run. It is a safety feature so the fuel pump won't keep running if the engine stops.
AFAIK both pulse generators are required to get any ignition.
Possibly one is an rpm signal and the other is a TDC signal? No idea why they even have two as one should do the job. I bet the ECU is mostly old skool analog electronics anyway.
On the four cylinders one PG fires each coil pack, but on the 1500 The ECU generates three ignition events from the two pulse generators.

[UncleLumpy]

OK, my two cents....
We had a hell of a problem on a bike at the shop, would crank, but not start. We spent (three mechanics) going over the electrical for over 5 hours labor (it had become a challenge, we didn't charge for all that labor), only find out the kill switch was defective. Presuming it has no spark, it might be...a bad kill switch.
If you have spark, then I dunno.

[jeffie]

Test the kill switch by turning the key on and look to see if the cruise on and cruise set lights come on. If they do not the kill switch is bad.

[chads920]

I had a similar problem with the dike not turning over. After much investigation and a new battery all of which didn't result in a start I sot the help of a neighbor. My neutral light would not come on. It turned out that the bike thought it was in reverse. By manipulating the reverse lever and the use of WD40 I managed to get the light on. At that point I hit the starter button and she cranked and started. Of course she has forgotten that she is in neutral since but at 31 yrs that can happen.

[1983goldie]

I had the exact problem with my 1990 1500SE, I did the same thing you have done including replacing the ECU - it is your pulse generators under the timing belt cover, they act more as a cam sensor and will shut down everything until replaced. I cannot remember where I bought the replacements (maybe partzilla), but as soon as I installed them the bike took off like a dream!

[samb31]

No, without spark the fuel pump will not run. It is a safety feature so the fuel pump won't keep running if the engine stops.
AFAIK both pulse generators are required to get any ignition.
Possibly one is an rpm signal and the other is a TDC signal? No idea why they even have two as one should do the job. I bet the ECU is mostly old skool analog electronics anyway.
On the four cylinders one PG fires each coil pack, but on the 1500 The ECU generates three ignition events from the two pulse generators.

Rambozo please save me, I installed the brand used (resistance test was good) pulse generators on the bike and there is no difference. There is no spark and the fuel pump still doesn’t run. Not sure if it’s related when the starter button is pressed, the head light clicks off but the starter does not spin. I am now officially at wits end all advice welcome.

[samb31]

I had the exact problem with my 1990 1500SE, I did the same thing you have done including replacing the ECU - it is your pulse generators under the timing belt cover, they act more as a cam sensor and will shut down everything until replaced. I cannot remember where I bought the replacements (maybe partzilla), but as soon as I installed them the bike took off like a dream!

I was seriously thinking you are right, but I just installed a used but testing good set of pulse generators with no luck. Feels really bad atm no fuel pump no spark no starter.
I was really hoping, everything

[samb31]

Test the kill switch by turning the key on and look to see if the cruise on and cruise set lights come on. If they do not the kill switch is bad.

I did try that, even just bypassed the switch, unfortunately doesn’t look like it’s the issue.

[Rambozo]

Rambozo please save me, I installed the brand used (resistance test was good) pulse generators on the bike and there is no difference. There is no spark and the fuel pump still doesn’t run. Not sure if it’s related when the starter button is pressed, the head light clicks off but the starter does not spin. I am now officially at wits end all advice welcome.

The headlight going off is by design. That way there is more power for the starter and ignition. So now there is no starter as well?
That is probably a different problem. You will need to trace out the starting circuit and see where the trouble is. There are a few safeties that block the starter with neutral and clutch switches. The start button itself often gets dirty. It has two switches inside, one for the starter and one to kill the headlights. Start relays can go bad, and the starter itself can get full of carbon dust and become intermittent. You can check start relay A for power from the start button on the yellow/red wire, and ground via the safety switches on the brown/red wire. If you are missing one of those you know where to look. If both those are fine, check the big lugs for power going in and out of relay A and B.

[samb31]

Rambozo please save me, I installed the brand used (resistance test was good) pulse generators on the bike and there is no difference. There is no spark and the fuel pump still doesn’t run. Not sure if it’s related when the starter button is pressed, the head light clicks off but the starter does not spin. I am now officially at wits end all advice welcome.

The headlight going off is by design. That way there is more power for the starter and ignition. So now there is no starter as well?
That is probably a different problem. You will need to trace out the starting circuit and see where the trouble is. There are a few safeties that block the starter with neutral and clutch switches. The start button itself often gets dirty. It has two switches inside, one for the starter and one to kill the headlights. Start relays can go bad, and the starter itself can get full of carbon dust and become intermittent. You can check start relay A for power from the start button on the yellow/red wire, and ground via the safety switches on the brown/red wire. If you are missing one of those you know where to look. If both those are fine, check the big lugs for power going in and out of relay A and B.

It does have a new starter in it(the guy gave it to me with the bike) the bike does crank but not start fine with a screw driver jumping the wires behind relay A, I’ll see if I get power to the yellow red wires. So far I have bypassed the kill switch, the BAS, made sure it isn’t in reverse, and that the kick stand light comes on and off. I guess I could check if I could find the clutch switch. I also verified the ECU is getting voltage. Are you familiar with the orange plug of green wires, on the right side near the ECU it looks like some sort of tester for the grounds but there is a lot that are not functioning as ground. Also does the clutch have to be pulled in if the neutral light is on?

[Rambozo]

No the clutch doesn't have to be pulled if it's in neutral with the light on.

[samb31]

I’m sorry for anyone that stumbles across this post, unfortunately I can’t seem to make any progress on the no spark issue. I think I will have to abandon the project and sell it for scrap.

[luck]

Did you checked all the fuses, I remember i had a similar problem and it was the bank angle switch fuse but it in long time ago wen i had my 93 goldwing. Just wonder if it can be related with something like that before you quit.