GL1800 Valve Adjustment

[gliskey]

Honda want $600. for a valve adjustment. I have 32k miles on my 2001 GL and it runs perfect. No valve clatter at all.

Realistically, how many miles should this be done?

Thanks,

Not a Mechanic

[bvanemon]

Just did a quick google search where it seems to be 50/50 on weather it needs done or not. Some have had it, done some themselves and other not at all. Ours has 57,000 miles when I had it in for the brake recall I had them flush the brake fluid and asked if its time for a valve check mechanic (not writer) said does it idle smooth YES do you change the oil at 3000 YES do you hear lifter noise NO just timing chain noise, does run like you stole it YES. Drive it just maintain it right.
Not really an answer but I wouldn't at 32,000 on an 01 these machines are really an engineering marvel when you think about it.

[MikeB]

If you have the ability do periodic maintenance yourself, it is pretty simple to do. All you are doing is checking the valve clearance. The GL1800 valve clearance does not loosen up, they get tighter. So replacing shims would be needed if adjustment is necessary. To replace the shims, you will need to refer to page 8-10 for cam shaft removal. Don't let it scare you. It's not complicated.
I checked my 2003 at 58,000 miles and no change my was needed. We did three others (2001, 2002 and a 2006) at our maintenance day this year and only one, the 2006, needed shims. If you do not need to replace any shims, no special tools are needed. About all you will need are aq few basic wrenches, feeler gauges and some silicone seal gasket sealer.
Here are some maintenance manual pages for your review:

[JerriEric]

This is one maintenance I will not attempt. I had mine checked at 80k and they were all within speck. The mechanic/owner of the shop said he would not check them again. So don't get all wrapped up in having to check them. Of course, maybe I was lucky. He charged me 190 since not adjustment was necessary. I never heard of a Wing having issues because someone did not check their valves. I did it because I got paranoid about them due to the forums I frequent. At 32k I would not worry about having them checked. But I am sure there are others that would say I am crazy. My local Honda dealer wanted 400 to check and 600 if they needed adjustment.

[Ghostman]

A dealer told me not to check them before 40,000 based on how many miles I rode a year. So I had them checked at 42,000 for $180.00. If shims needed to be replaced depending on how many that would be added to the cost. Mine needed no replacement so I was good to go. Maybe at 90,000 Ill check them again. i wouldnt get paranoid or let it bug you. Like others have said youll never read about an engine issue due to valves or oil. Honda basically builds a good product.

[kfinnie]

At 91,700 km, just prior to a 10,000+ km trip, I became concerned regarding my 2001 GL1800 valve clearances, as they had never been adjusted. The local shops wanted $350.00 to perform clearance inspection only (and quoted that any adjustment would be @ $100/hr. I am suspicious that they have rarely had to do this). I checked them myself (after spending an afternoon constructing a couple of cam chain de-tensioners). All were within factory spec. I'll re-check over the winter to see what effect my long trip had, but I fully expect them all to be fine.

[Sgiac]

If you have the ability do periodic maintenance yourself, it is pretty simple to do. All you are doing is checking the valve clearance. The GL1800 valve clearance does not loosen up, they get tighter. So replacing shims would be needed if adjustment is necessary. To replace the shims, you will need to refer to page 8-10 for cam shaft removal. Don't let it scare you. It's not complicated.
I checked my 2003 at 58,000 miles and no change my was needed. We did three others (2001, 2002 and a 2006) at our maintenance day this year and only one, the 2006, needed shims. If you do not need to replace any shims, no special tools are needed. About all you will need are aq few basic wrenches, feeler gauges and some silicone seal gasket sealer.
Here are some maintenance manual pages for your review:Valves Adjust 3-9.jpgValves Adjust 3-10.jpgValves Adjust 3-11.jpg

MikeB, thanks for this post, including page references. I started the process on my 03 and several issues present immediately. First, how to actually see the timing marks through the small crank cap opening. (can't get my head in there and checking via a mirror is extremely difficult)
Second, how to actually access the valve clearance area at the cam. (there doesn't seem to be any room to get in there)
I'm not a newbie at this stuff so I'm completely baffled by the fact that nobody else seems to be raising these issues.
I sure hope that someone is monitoring this post because I'm a bit stuck here! Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
Regards, Steve

[MikeB]

If you have the ability do periodic maintenance yourself, it is pretty simple to do. All you are doing is checking the valve clearance. The GL1800 valve clearance does not loosen up, they get tighter. So replacing shims would be needed if adjustment is necessary. To replace the shims, you will need to refer to page 8-10 for cam shaft removal. Don't let it scare you. It's not complicated.
I checked my 2003 at 58,000 miles and no change my was needed. We did three others (2001, 2002 and a 2006) at our maintenance day this year and only one, the 2006, needed shims. If you do not need to replace any shims, no special tools are needed. About all you will need are aq few basic wrenches, feeler gauges and some silicone seal gasket sealer.
Here are some maintenance manual pages for your review:Valves Adjust 3-9.jpgValves Adjust 3-10.jpgValves Adjust 3-11.jpg

MikeB, thanks for this post, including page references. I started the process on my 03 and several issues present immediately. First, how to actually see the timing marks through the small crank cap opening. (can't get my head in there and checking via a mirror is extremely difficult)
Second, how to actually access the valve clearance area at the cam. (there doesn't seem to be any room to get in there)
I'm not a newbie at this stuff so I'm completely baffled by the fact that nobody else seems to be raising these issues.
I sure hope that someone is monitoring this post because I'm a bit stuck here! Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
Regards, Steve

Yes, it is difficult to see the timing marks but if it were easy, anyone could do it and I know you can.

Feeler gauge access is not as bad as you think. If you can envision how the cam presses the lifter to open the valve, you can see that there is ample room.
In the picture below you can see the feeler gauge in place but it is bent over 180 degrees and not on the same plane as the gap between the cam and the follower. I am not sure why they pictured it that way. I don't usually bend my feller gauges unless absolutely necessary.

I use a feeler gauge set that is pretty long and is tapered similar to the set pictured below. The taper allows insertion in narrower spots but this is not necessary here.

[Sgiac]

Mike, again, thanks for the attention.
I wedged my head in there but still couldn't see the marks and provide enough light. I even tried to get my phone camera in there but that was a waste of time.
Is it necessary to remove the front wheel and fender or is my head just too big (and empty >
I imagine that the feeler gauge is long and it must be bent at 90+ degrees but even then...
How is it that I'm the only one bringing this up? I don't know if I should start drinking or stop >

[MikeB]

I really don't know what to tell you Steve. I've done it a number of times and I'm not a certified motorcycle mechanic by any means. I wear a 7-1/2 to 7-3/4 hat size. I've not got a small head either.

You could remove the wheel if you think it will make it easier for you. After all, the bike is stone cold and will not be going anywhere for a few hours while you do the work.

Just slide the feeler between the cam and the follower. If there is clearance and the piston is at top dead center, it will slide right in.

[Sgiac]

Will try this again without removing the wheel.
You're a patient man!

[MikeB]

By the way, make sure you remove all the spark plugs. It will certainly make it easier to rotate the crank shaft.

[murr57]

I'm very fortunate to have a very honest dealer/mechanic. He told me that in his opinion, he is just taking money from me if I follow the manual and bring my bike in before 100k. "It's a Honda", he says.
Interestingly, I had my 2007 VTX 1300 checked at 40k and a different mechanic told me that 3 of 4 needed slight adjusting, but that's of course a completely different motor.

[GoldWingrGreg]

If your shop says Wings don't need valve adjustment every 32k, I'd highly recommend that you find a new shop.

There are many reasons shops will say "doing valve adjustment on 5th gens is not needed."
- they prefer to work on anything other then GoldWings
- they are not familiar with them
- poor valve shim inventory
- the Service Manager needs a certain income per bay / per day, and pushing a Wing aside for 4 days while waiting on a $8 shim ain't gonna happen
- doing a proper valve adjustment and setting them all to center spec is time consuming, and most techs and service manager would rather have fast money
- many Wings have accessories to deal with and many shops don't know how to provide proper estimates so they can make money doing valve adjustment. Let's face it, adding 1 accessory then makes a Wing custom. Examples are highways pegs, chrome valve covers, fog lamps, chrome timing covers, chrome lower center cowls, lower air-wings ... and the list can go on and on

Thus it is easiest for a shop to say, Wings don't need valve adjustments.

To test do this. Go up to the parts department and see if they have a 202, and a 208 shim in stock. Those are common sizes on GL1800s. I might add that having a good shim inventory costs about $3000. Most parts departments would rather invest in, and have chrome on their walls, then having a proper supply of shims needed to do proper valve adjustments. Below is what $3000 of GL1800 shim inventory looks like.

Here, we do valve adjustment all the time. And yes, valve adjustments on GL1800 are defiantly needed, even at 32K. The benefit of doing one every 32K is as follows:
- less crank time when starting
- setting them at center spec means that the most one will go out of spec in a 32K period is 0.001". Thus the +- spec the engineers provide
- better fuel economy
- snappier throttle
- overall better running

[murr57]

I'm not about to argue with you, especially because I'd rather be safe than sorry and had asked about a valve check at 40k, and that's how I got my info. My dealer has had his honda motorcycle dealership for over 30 years. In his experience he has rarely had to make an adjustment on a Goldwing under a hundred thousand even though he does them for owners when requested because they want to follow the guidelines. He told me it would require two hours of shop time plus parts so I think he knows his stuff and just didn't want to take my money needlessly. Now, having read your letter I may consult other shops in the area. Just saying.

[Wingsconsin]

I had mine done at 37,000 miles -
Two shims needed changing -all the rest were in spec
I will have it done again at 70,000 and see where they are -
But - at the rate I am actually riding (no where to go) it might be a while ..

[Sgiac]

I really don't know what to tell you Steve. I've done it a number of times and I'm not a certified motorcycle mechanic by any means. I wear a 7-1/2 to 7-3/4 hat size. I've not got a small head either.

You could remove the wheel if you think it will make it easier for you. After all, the bike is stone cold and will not be going anywhere for a few hours while you do the work.

Just slide the feeler between the cam and the follower. If there is clearance and the piston is at top dead center, it will slide right in.

Mike
I'm back at it (after a snowy cold snap that contributed to my reluctance) and it now occurs to me that if I removed the crankcase cover (12 bolt timing cover) I should be able to see the timing mark as I turn the crank. After another stint with my head wedged between the fender and the crankcase, I still can't see the recessed marks through that tiny timing hole opening (let alone simultaneously turn the crank to the proper position). So, First, is this the trick? and Second, can I expect that I will lose a fair bit of my new oil in the process? and Third, will I need to replace the cover gasket or should it come away intact and be re-useable?

Honestly, without removing this cover I can't for the life of me figure out how this process can be accomplished!
BTW, I have the full Honda GL1800 service manual with the pages that you reference and it doesn't suggest removing the crankcase cover but... Thanks in advance for your expertise, and your patience.

[MikeB]

Mike
I'm back at it (after a snowy cold snap that contributed to my reluctance) and it now occurs to me that if I removed the crankcase cover (12 bolt timing cover) I should be able to see the timing mark as I turn the crank. After another stint with my head wedged between the fender and the crankcase, I still can't see the recessed marks through that tiny timing hole opening (let alone simultaneously turn the crank to the proper position). So, First, is this the trick? and Second, can I expect that I will lose a fair bit of my new oil in the process? and Third, will I need to replace the cover gasket or should it come away intact and be re-useable?

Honestly, without removing this cover I can't for the life of me figure out how this process can be accomplished!
BTW, I have the full Honda GL1800 service manual with the pages that you reference and it doesn't suggest removing the crankcase cover but... Thanks in advance for your expertise, and your patience.

I don't think removing the crankcase cover is the answer. If you did, you will not have a reverence point for the timing mark that is on the crank.
I'd suggest that when looking for the timing marks to look from the left side of the bike towards the open hole on the crankcase cover. You will notice that this is how Honda took the picture, from the left side of the bike/engine. You will never see the timing mark from the right side of the bike/engine.

I don't recommend removing the crankcase cover but anytime you remove a part that has a gasket, you will need a new one when you reassemble.

[Sgiac]

Mike
That's the answer to my dilemma! I have a very small, cramped, workspace and have only attacked this problem from the right side! And of course your comment about the timing mark is bang on too. I will jockey the bike to work from the other side.
Again, much appreciated (I couldn't fathom why no one else was screaming the impossibility that I was facing! Simple solution when the trees are cleared out of the way of the forest >
Regards, Steve

[MikeB]

Good catch Steve. I knew it had to be something simple.

By the way, I had to look it up but the #1 cylinder is on the right forward part of the engine.
Firing order is: 1 - 4 - 5 - 2 - 3 - 6

<-------Front
| 1 | 3 | 5 | Right Head
| 2 | 4 | 6 | Left Head

[Sgiac]

Mike, you deserve a final reply on this issue. As they say in some parts of the country I "got er dun!"
With the aid of my phone camera/flash and the approach from the left side of the bike (to see the very awkward timing marks) I checked and confirmed that all clearances were within specs.
While I was at it, I changed out the valve covers for chromed units and reassembled everything without a hitch!

That part of the saga is over and I thank you very much for your help. I fear that I might have done something stupid without your firm hand on the tiller!

All of this said, I installed the winter tended battery, turned the key the bike came to life, I looked at the mileage and turned it off. (I meant to record it but didn't have a pencil handy) I then turned it back on and pressed the starter only to have the display go blank (I did hear a click from something near the middle of the bike seat) and then, nothing! I've posted a new subject in the GL1800 forum: "Neutral light flashes on then stays off, bike won't start". I hope to get some assistance on this problem and actually get to ride this crazy season!

All the best!

[MikeB]

I'm glad you got er done. I had a couple of '03's. One of them needed shims replaced when I checked it at the 67,000 mile mark. The other '03 never needed to have the shims replaced and I kept that bike until it had 117,000 miles on it. I've got a '17 now and hope for many miles of great service.

As to your lack of power when you turned the key on the second time, it can be many many things but what comes to mind first is as simple as a dead battery.
Next is a battery cable that is not tightened sufficiently.

Check the battery voltage with a reliable voltmeter both with the key off and then the key on.

I'll look for your other post....

[ottoman]

I finally got around to checking My Valves on my 2012 Goldwing with 102,000 mile, for the first time.
10 out of 12 valves are right at the bottom end of the spec. Intake: 5 at .005 (spec.006+_.001) & Exhaust: 5 at .008 (spec. .009+_.001).
A comment and question:
The feeler gauge fit tight in some of the Valves, but it went in. I would read that to mean the clearance is exactly at the feeler gauge thickness. If the gap was anything under the feeler gauge thickness I assume it would not fit. Am I correct?

The real question:
Should I select shims that get me to the nominal, .006 for intake & .009 for Exhaust, or should I target the high end of the tolerance, .007 intake & .010 exhaust?
My intuition is to target the high end sense the valves will tighten over time.

Thanks for any advice
OTTO

[GoldWingrGreg]

The real question:
Should I select shims that get me to the nominal, .006 for intake & .009 for Exhaust, or should I target the high end of the tolerance, .007 intake & .010 exhaust?
My intuition is to target the high end sense the valves will tighten over time.

Thanks for any advice
OTTO

Maybe the real question should be, why do the Honda engineers say, from center spec, +- 0.001" is ok, and why do they say to check and adjust them as needed every 32K ???

All though it appears you've not had this problem, but the reason for the above is this. On 5th gens, the engineers know that the most valve lash will change in a 32,000 mile period is 0.001" So, since maintenance is all about paying forward, if they are set to the center spec at 0.006/0.009, and if lash changes in the next 32k by +- 0.001", when they are adjusted again, they never went out of spec.

Here are the other benefits of valves that are center spected:
- snappier throttle
- quicker starts
- better fuel economy
- over-all smother running

[MikeB]

I finally got around to checking My Valves on my 2012 Goldwing with 102,000 mile, for the first time.
10 out of 12 valves are right at the bottom end of the spec. Intake: 5 at .005 (spec.006+_.001) & Exhaust: 5 at .008 (spec. .009+_.001).
A comment and question:
The feeler gauge fit tight in some of the Valves, but it went in. I would read that to mean the clearance is exactly at the feeler gauge thickness. If the gap was anything under the feeler gauge thickness I assume it would not fit. Am I correct?

The real question:
Should I select shims that get me to the nominal, .006 for intake & .009 for Exhaust, or should I target the high end of the tolerance, .007 intake & .010 exhaust?
My intuition is to target the high end sense the valves will tighten over time.

Thanks for any advice
OTTO

The high end of the tolerance sounds like the way to go.