bleeding the brakes on an o6 1800 wing

[cruiser1800]

I had to put a new front tire on my wing, so while the calipers were exposed and not knowing when the brake fluid had been changed, I thought I would change the brake fluid on the front. I can get fluid to come out the bleeders except for the lower caliper bleeders, the ones that are in the center of the calipers, nothing will come out of either bleeder on both calipers. I haven't found anything in the book to tell me why.

Am I missing something?

Thanks

[Viking]

Are you also using the back brake pedal to help with this? Youre brake systems are combined. You have part of your front brakes on the hand lever and part on the brake pedal. The method of bleeding brakes on the GL1800 is as follows:

BRAKE BLEEDING SEQUENCE

1) Using the Front Brake Lever - Front Right caliper Upper bleed nipple
2) Using the Front Brake Lever - Front Left caliper Lower bleed nipple
3) Using the Rear Brake Pedal - Front Left caliper Upper bleed nipple
4) Using the Rear Brake Pedal - Front Right caliper Lower bleed nipple
5) Using the Rear Brake Pedal - Rear caliper Lower bleed nipple
6) Using the Rear Brake Pedal - Anti Dive plunger
7) Using the Rear Brake Pedal - Rear caliper Upper bleed nipple

If you feel there might still be air in the system, these further steps can be done, but are optional.

8: Pressure bleeding the lower Junction block. (Upper left side of frame sitting on bike).Follow rubber hose from Secondary master cyl to the Junction block.

9: Pressure Bleed the top Banjo bolt on the Secondary Master Cyl. (To be sure the air bubble is completely out)

[Steve F]

If you haven't had the brake recall done yet, save yourself some grief and have the dealer do it while they're doing the recall service. Normally, they won't include the front brakes as part of the recall, but they will charge you only for the fronts.

[cruiser1800]

I haven't had the recall done yet, I have been trying to get it done, but out of three Honda dealers, all three say they aren't set up for trikes, yet two are Cam-am dealers, which I would think they could handle trikes. Already one said they would do it, but then after waiting over two weeks, I had to call them to find out when they were going to do it, they told me they were not going to, thanks for calling me and telling me. I have another one that is suppose to do it, but it wouldn't surprise me it will be the same. Both are out of Spokane area.

Since I was putting on a new tire and had to strip all the stuff off the bike to take the wheel off, I figured it would be a good time to do it and not pay them the added cost.

[tfdeputydawg]

You need to contact Champion and ask for the brake bleed procedure for their conversion.
Most conversions block off the secondary master cylinder so applying the front brake level makes the link to the rear inoperable.
You need to get the recall done as this replaces the secondary master cylinder, even if it's blocked off on your trike. Also replaces rear master cylinder and you get brake fluid flush and replace, all on Honda!
The reason this dealer, even though he sells CanAms, won't work on your Champion is most likely because he doesn't know the proper brake bleed procedure for your unit!

[tfdeputydawg]

Are you also using the back brake pedal to help with this? Youre brake systems are combined. You have part of your front brakes on the hand lever and part on the brake pedal.

Please note: The OP has a Champion Trike. The brake bleed procedure is different on a trike!

[Viking]

Are you also using the back brake pedal to help with this? Youre brake systems are combined. You have part of your front brakes on the hand lever and part on the brake pedal.

Please note: The OP has a Champion Trike. The brake bleed procedure is different on a trike!

Yeah, I kinda missed that. Thanks so much for bringing it to my attention.

[2manywings]

Like the mainviking's first post says, to do just the front brakes, you only need to do steps 1 and 2. I just finished doing a brake modification to a 2002 w/Champion trike kit which for me, simplified the whole brake plumbing nightmare and gives a little more braking power up front. When this bike was triked (and I think this is how most trike conversions are done), they run a new s.s. brake line from the rear master to the calipers on the trike rear-end and cap off or loop the original feed and return lines which no longer do anything. Because on this bike, they did nothing, I wanted to get that un-needed plumbing out of there. I wasn't able to remove the hard lines that run along the frame, but I did purge them. Those lines transition from steel to rubber on either side of the steering neck. I remove all of the plumbing related to the rear from that point forward. Because the anti-dive and the secondary master worked off the rear master and now did nothing, "Get That S___ Out of There" (why continue the madness?). I then made up a mounting bracket to take the place of the secondary master which I removed (because it no longer did anything). With all of the original rear plumbing removed that I could access, it was time to concentrate on the front calipers. The fronts are really independent from the rears when used by themselves, and I saw that there was some improvement to be had. Originally, when the front brakes were applied, you were activating two pistons on the right and only one on the left. So I simply moved the front rubber hose on the left caliper from it's original location to the location on that caliper that used to be the line from the rear. This now meant that you were activating two pistons on each caliper. Now, everything works fine and it is so much less confusing. Once this bike was triked, the integrated braking system went out the window, so no harm... no foul. I'm sure that "Mother Honda" wouldn't agree with what I did, but I get a head ache every time I look at that mess. I feel that this is one area of these bikes that is too over-engineered. Many of the dealership techs don't even understand it.

[cruiser1800]

I finally got back to my brake job and from the dark picture in my manual, I don't have all the lines it seems to show. There seems to be plugs in the calipers where the missing lines would go. If you put the rear brakes on, it does not affect the front brakes. I found a rear end seal had been leaking and the right rear pads, calipers and rotor was quite dirty, so I got side tracked on that. I am trying to find out from Champion if they can tell me what rear end I have for future reference for parts, I haven't found anything on the rear end that gives any indication who the manufacturer is.

[Old wing thomas]

I put a rebuild kit on the rear brake master cylinder of my pal's gl1500 trike and noticed it has two lines coming off of it and without chasing them down figured that the front and rear are combined so my question is what is the procedure to bleeding this system? This vehicle has. Drum brakes in the rear so if anyone can shed some light on this subject for me while I still have some hair on my head thank you

[Andy Cote]

Old thread I know.

WingAdmin,

Can we move this to a how-to article? Or least the Viking post for bleeding a two wheeler? Maybe a separate post for trikes?

[GoldWingrGreg]

Can we move this to a how-to article? Or least the Viking post for bleeding a two wheeler? Maybe a separate post for trikes?

There's a lot of information missing on this thread. As with most trike kits, over the years, their braking systems have gone through various modifications, and if I recall, the same is true for Champions. In the earlier years, they modified the brake lines where the front lever operates the upper and lower pucks on the front calipers only. The rear lever only operated the rear calipers, so the front center pucks were dead (center bleeder). Then they did a mod where they went to steel brake lines. So there is no single answer that applies to all.

However, as I write this, I think with all Champions, as I described above is correct ... straight and independent axles are all the same. So the bleed sequence for the front would be to bleed both upper bleeders only. The center bleeder are dead ... you will get no fluid coming out of either when applying either the front or rear levers.

When done, and with a front brake system all bled correctly, and with good pads and rotors, it will take more front lever movement for the front brakes to work well. The reason ... the front master cylinder is sized to activate 3 pucks instead of 4, and Champion's brake modification activates 4 pucks ... thus the reason they went to steel lines. Basically the front m/c does not push enough volume of brake fluid to activate 4 pucks well.

[Andy Cote]

Absolutely.

I asked Scott if the two wheeler brake bleeding post could be moved to the How-To Articles. The GL1800 is supposed to have regular brake fluid replacement and the bleeding procedure is a bit more convoluted than a 67 Dodge Dart; especially the banjo bolt bleed trick which is not listed in the Honda Service Manual. It is common enough that I thought a quick place to look it up would be beneficial.

Three wheelers are another level of complexity and, as you said, vary between conversion brands. Trike owners could benefit from one or more separate articles.