oil pressure while cranking


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-2017)
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rdefayette
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oil pressure while cranking

Post by rdefayette »



picked up '01 GL1800A. had to split the engine to clean out the oil pump screen/oil pick-up. Cleaned the pick-up, put it back on the pump. Spun the pump with a drill to make sure I was getting oil out of the pressure port. All good. Bearing clearances checked out. nothing loose in the bottom end. Got it all back together, new gaskets, seals, etc. Wanted to check oil pressure before putting the engine back in. Sitting on the floor, using cables and battery, it'll crank fine, has oil flow (out of sending unit port, at the heads, etc) but pressure doesn't register. checked the mechanical gauge I'm using and it works using air pressure so I'd say that isn't the problem (unless it's just won't register lower pressures). Is there a minimum rpm that these needs to spin before they'll build pressure? (i.e. starter motor spins fast enough to move the oil but not fast enough to build pressure that registers?) Any ideas that'll keep me from splitting this again would be GREAT!
Thanks , Bob

2001 GL1800A-ABS


Bob
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AZgl1800
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by AZgl1800 »

it won't have much oil pressure until the engine is turning on its' own.
2 or 3 lbs maybe?
~John

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2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

rdefayette
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by rdefayette »

I don't want to sound like a jerk but you ended that with a question mark. :) Is that factual? I sure would like it to be. I just don't want to have put the engine back in and have to do this again. Pull engine out, split the engine etc. I appreciate your input. Hopefully it'll work out if I decide to put it back in. :)
Bob
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AZgl1800
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by AZgl1800 »

The question mark was intended to show that "is my guesstimate".

simply because the starter can't spin the engine fast enough to really build up any oil pressure at all.

For instance, on my Suburban which has a good oil pressure gauge, no oil pressure shows until the engine has been running for at least 2 or 3 seconds, and then it is "just barely" above the zero mark.
The lowest main point is 10 psi, and there are a few small tick marks below that...

Even then, it does not climb above 10 psi for a good little while....
It does not exceed 20 psi until I am out the driveway and on the highway getting up to speed...

It does not reach 45 psi until the engine temperature has reached 180+ degrees.... but that is the nature of multi-weight oils....

Earlier this winter, the temp was below zero degrees, I drove the Suburban almost 15 miles before the oil pressure got above 20 psi.... the water temp gauge was showing about 140-150 degrees at the time.

A few miles down the road, the gauge finally reached operating temperature, and the oil pressure was at 45 psi just like it is supposed to be.

So again, I doubt seriously that the GL1800's oil pressure pump will be making very much pressure at all, until AFTER the engine catches and is at least 800 rpm. The starter sure don't spin it that fast.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

rdefayette
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by rdefayette »

understood. wasn't doubting you. It just came across as flipping a coin with the ? mark. :)
Kinda of what I was thinking just wanted some additional input before putting this back together. To bad they don't have a "priming point" (i.e. method to prime) like we do on the race cars/rebuilds in cars. Toss a dist shaft in a drill and have at it. Oil pressure all day long. :) Thanks again,
Bob
Bob
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AZgl1800
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by AZgl1800 »

yeah,

I would love to have a way to prime the oil pump before starting our engines.

it is well known, that 99.98% of engine wear occurs in the first minute of operation

Diesels that never get shut down, are proof of the pudding in that line of thought.

I know where there is a Natural Gas engine running a compressor that probably has not been shut down since 1939... unless something else was wrong. That thing has a 36" piston diameter, and the flywheel is somewhere around 10-12 feet in diameter.

The stroke is humongous, something like 25 feet or more? I have not seen it since I worked at that pumping station.... from 1968 to 1979.

They never change engine oil. Just run it through diatomaceous earth filters.
The oil always has that pearly orange looking color to it.

In addition to that old old engine, we had some of these:
https://www.geoilandgas.com/cooper



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!



here is the closest type engine I can find that was like the one I talked about



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the stroke is much shorter than I said, the whole engine block is 25 to 30 feet long.

I found it!!!!



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!


Worthington is the brand


Memories have been kicked off here.. I worked at this Sneed Plant for 10 years, we have about six satellite compressor stations that brought lower pressure Natural Gas into the main compressor station at Sneed Plant. There the line pressures were kicked up to 300+ psi and sent down the line towards Liberal, KS to a lot of compressor stations finally ending up at Howell, Michigan... NG was sold off to cities along the way to heat homes and factories.

here is a link to the facility that I worked at:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sneed+c ... =632&dpr=1
Last edited by AZgl1800 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

While cranking (300 rpms), they will build oil pressure to 8-10lbs. Sorry, going from memory, and it might even be higher like 10-12. Why did the screen need cleaned ???

rdefayette
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by rdefayette »

The screen looked like this when I got it apart/off. 2 little areas the diameter of a pencil to pull oil through. Before and after
Attachments




Bob
2001 GL1800A ABS

rdefayette
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by rdefayette »

AZgl1800 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:18 pm
yeah,

I would love to have a way to prime the oil pump before starting our engines.

it is well known, that 99.98% of engine wear occurs in the first minute of operation

Diesels that never get shut down, are proof of the pudding in that line of thought.

I know where there is a Natural Gas engine running a compressor that probably has not been shut down since 1939... unless something else was wrong. That thing has a 36" piston diameter, and the flywheel is somewhere around 10-12 feet in diameter.

The stroke is humongous, something like 25 feet or more? I have not seen it since I worked at that pumping station.... from 1968 to 1979.

They never change engine oil. Just run it through diatomaceous earth filters.
The oil always has that pearly orange looking color to it.

In addition to that old old engine, we had some of these:
https://www.geoilandgas.com/cooper



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!



here is the closest type engine I can find that was like the one I talked about



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!


the stroke is much shorter than I said, the whole engine block is 25 to 30 feet long.

I found it!!!!



   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!


Worthington is the brand


Memories have been kicked off here.. I worked at this Sneed Plant for 10 years, we have about six satellite compressor stations that brought lower pressure Natural Gas into the main compressor station at Sneed Plant. There the line pressures were kicked up to 300+ psi and sent down the line towards Liberal, KS to a lot of compressor stations finally ending up at Howell, Michigan... NG was sold off to cities along the way to heat homes and factories.

here is a link to the facility that I worked at:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sneed+c ... =632&dpr=1
GREAT pics/videos. I love that type of equipment. The older the better. :)
Bob
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Sorry Bob, but in the picture I cannot tell what caused the blockage in the screen. Is it clutch material ??? I've seen 3 get plugged from red-rag lint ??? FYI ... never use red-rags (at least new ones) when assembling a GL1800 engine. To test ... wipe the inside of the case with a red-rag. Then shine a light at an angle and you'll see red lint everywhere the rag touched. I use those blue paper rags.

With that blockage, did you have a flutter/light-knocking noise that increased with rpms ???

As for priming a GL1800 before starting, what I do after an oil change is this: key on, WOT, crank until oil light goes out, stop cranking, return throttle to close position, then start.

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cihilb
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by cihilb »

Whenever I change my oil, I open the throttle all the way and then crank the engine. It won't start as long as the throttle is wide open. Crank it in about 5 second intervals. After the third or fourth time the oil pressure light goes out. The release the throttle and start the engine. On the older models you could turn off the kill switch and crank it.
I suppose you could do this each time just to prime the engine.

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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by AZgl1800 »

I leave the throttle alone, just touch the start button, and let it do its' thing...

after the idle peaks out, and then comes back down to under 1,000 rpm, then I go for a ride.

Strictly my opinion, but those little short bursts of cranking w/o the engine starting cause more damage than just letting it start and go... the oil pressure comes up quicker.

I don't do it any different after an oil change.
The dry oil filter will fill up in less than 2 seconds, and full pressure should be up in 3 seconds.

The oil pressure light went out in about 3 seconds or less when I changed the oil last time, and that was with the "super thick" Rotella 5w40 T6 stuff ( just joking here ) :mrgreen:
~John

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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by Steve F »

When I change the oil, I'll take it for a ride a few miles to get things warmed up a bit, drain and new filter and refill. Start the engine and within a few seconds, usually no more that 5, I'll have oil pressure. Since It was run just a few moments earlier, the oil has coated everything in the engine and it's not as damaging to the components while waiting for the new oil to show up.
"To ride is the reason, the destination's the excuse."

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AZgl1800
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by AZgl1800 »

Steve F wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:24 pm
When I change the oil, I'll take it for a ride a few miles to get things warmed up a bit, drain and new filter and refill. Start the engine and within a few seconds, usually no more that 5, I'll have oil pressure. Since It was run just a few moments earlier, the oil has coated everything in the engine and it's not as damaging to the components while waiting for the new oil to show up.
If it has been a while since the oil has a cleaner run through it,
no harm in adding 4 oz of Sea Foam to the existing oil, then take that ride you spoke of.
If the ride is 100+ miles, the Sea Foam will dissolve any possible contaminants, varnish, shellac, etc...

If you use a pure synthetic oil, this won't be necessary, as it will keep that stuff dissolved anyway.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

rdefayette
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by rdefayette »

Well, Got the engine in it, got it to the point I could fire it up (prior to hanging plastics, just in case ;) ), Fired up, good oil pressure and no odd noises. So far so good, Thanks all.
Bob
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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by AZgl1800 »

Bob,

I had to take some pictures of the bike's GPS today.... a bit too cool at 27* but I did it anyway.
The bike has been setting for a month now, Global Warming and all :lol:




I was thinking of you, and watched the oil pressure light.
It went out before the engine started, which takes about 4 seconds.
So, I gonna say the oil pressure was above minimum requirements with only the starter mother turning the crankshaft.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

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Re: oil pressure while cranking

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

rdefayette wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:06 pm
Well, Got the engine in it, got it to the point I could fire it up (prior to hanging plastics, just in case ;) ), Fired up, good oil pressure and no odd noises. So far so good, Thanks all.
Bob
I'm looking at RO notes. Below is what I usually get after reassembly.
- while turning over (oil cold) 12psi
- at start-up, so idle would be 1600-1800rpms (oil cold) 56-62psi
- at idle (oil hot) 14-16psi
- 78psi at 5,000rpm (oil hot)



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