Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light


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Dudleygray
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Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:44 pm



Sometimes when attempting to start, inst panel goes dead, trip meter zeros & clock resets to 1:00. Loosening & retightening battery cables sometimes fixes it.
Sometimes repeated engagement of the starter switch fixes it. Mystery.

Now, new fault is F1 light, comes on after 15 - 45 min. riding. Turn off key & turn back on while riding & light goes out for a while. No noticeable effect on performance.
Sometimes when riding into the garage, F1 goes out on its own.

What are indications of F1 light on 2002 GL 1800 w/119,000 mi?



DaveO430
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by DaveO430 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:09 pm

Check the connections on the starter relay behind the battery. Start the engine with the side stand down and without touching the throttle and count the blinks of the F1 light there will be a repeating sequence of long and short blinks then report back. You can also do it if the light comes on when riding, stop and put the side stand down without killing the engine and watch the light.

Dudleygray
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:37 pm

Two longs followed by 6 short.

What does this indicate?
Thanks for the advice.
Regards, Dudley

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by DaveO430 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:13 pm

That code (26) is for the left knock sensor. Bad news is the sensor is probably OK and the ECM is the problem.

Dudleygray
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:40 pm

Thanks. I guess I need to shop for an ECM. Will check on Parts available from this website.

Appreciate very much your input. Where is this info available? I have the Honda issued 2001-2003 GL1800/A CD Service Manual. Is this tucked away somewhere in there? I've been too laid back to explore it. Shame on me.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by DaveO430 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Dudleygray wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:40 pm
Thanks. I guess I need to shop for an ECM. Will check on Parts available from this website.

Appreciate very much your input. Where is this info available? I have the Honda issued 2001-2003 GL1800/A CD Service Manual. Is this tucked away somewhere in there? I've been too laid back to explore it. Shame on me.
The manual only shows how to check continuity to the knock sensor and says try a known good one or replace it. What you have to do is disconnect the ECM, take the exhaust cover off to get access to the sensor, set a multimeter to frequency (Hz) connect 1 lead to the wire from the sensor, the other to ground and tap on the engine block near the sensor with a small hammer. If you get a frequency reading the sensor and wiring is good and indicates a bad ECM. It is pretty common on 01-05 models.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by GoldWingrGreg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:20 am

Unless you have money and time to gamble on a used ECM, buy new. I knew someone who was on a trip and took their Wing to a Honda dealer; they sourced him out a used ECM on eBay. About 200 miles towards home, his light came back on with poor running, and it wanting to die. A new ECM corrected his problem.

Since yours is 2001-3, my advise is to not waist time testing the knock sensor circuit. Usually, the riding window between a knock sensor circuit flashing an FI light, and when it begins to run poorly and wanting to die at stop, is short ... as in a couple of more lunch rides in hot weather. A "wanting to die" symptom coupled with a knock sensor light and flashing code 25 or 26 almost always means it's an ECM. Just an FYI ... everyone I've known to have the poor running, caused by a failing knock sensor circuit in the ECM has always said "they didn't think they would make it home," however, the all did. That means that after a few more rides in hot weather and yours starts running poorly too, that you too will make it home.

Most code 25/26 repairs require new spark plugs too ... so don't forget to order those too.

Dudleygray
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:41 am

Thanks for this heads up. Is Honda direct the only recommended source for a new ECM? Is there only one type? I see references to ECU etc when looking on eBay.
Can this be ordered from or through the GoldWingDocs store, an authorized Honda dealership or direct from Honda online?
Again, Thanks so much for this excellent & forthright advice.
RGDS Dudleygray

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:08 pm

A new ECM will only come from Honda, whether you get it at a local dealer or online.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 pm

Thanks. Honda of Houston quoted $800 for ECM & $111 for left knock sensor.
& $65 service to replace ECM.
Per your recommendation will opt for ECM.

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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by GoldWingrGreg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:47 pm

Hold on ... I guess I didn't see the part about an intermittent starter switch. There is a big "crimp" connector under the seat that needs tested first. It provides power to the ECM and other circuits. Once the seat is removed, find the relay box. It sits directly behind the fuel tank and is attached to the top of the inner rear fender. Going into the relay box are 3 large wire harnesses feeding into 3 relay panels. Each panel has a different color. You might have to remove the panels from the relay cover to find what you need to find. To do that, remove the 2 screws that attaches the relay box to the fender. The push on the colored tabs on the sides to slide the panel out. What you are looking for is a large blue connecter that usually sits just under the blue panel. Sometimes it is exposed and at other times it is wrapped in electrical tape near the end of where the tape ends. The crimp connector is blue in color. The connecter cap needs removed and inspected. There should be no melting or corrosion inside the connection. Once you get it apart, you will see that it is a fancy way to connect power to many wires.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:04 pm

Thanks so much for expanding your last critique as this is where I'll go next before ordering a new ECM. Am inclined to work on the bike myself, changing the air filter, spark plugs, changing oil etc. With GoldwingDocs help, even determined and replaced a faulty speed indicator. Appreciate so much the thorough coverage of all aspects I've enquired about.

I will investigate all of the suggestions posted in reply to mine before posting a new update.

I've been apprehensive about the starter switch because of my habit here in the hot Houston, TX southern climate to shut the bike off at red light intersections, which has been on many occasions because I prefer to ride two wheels for all of my local errands, often 5-10 miles. Bought the bike new in 2001 and it's now approaching 120,000 miles (x0.9 for speedo/odometer error), which translates to many, many starter switch cycles. Don't use reverse very much, so the "overuse" duty is mainly a result of my dead bike habit at red lights.

When I read on the forums of the problems that some are having I feel blessed to have had so little difficulty with my 2002 model, now coming up on 17 years. Talks of trading have never been in my favor, and I can't imagine a newer bike being any better than what I already have which is totally satisfactory.
Sorry to Ramble on. It's my nature as has been noted previously I'm afraid.

Will let you know when time permits further trouble shooting the problems at hand. It may be awhile. Other honey-do's have higher priority unfortunately right now.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 pm

Dudleygray wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:04 pm


I've been apprehensive about the starter switch because of my habit here in the hot Houston, TX southern climate to shut the bike off at red light intersections,
Why would you do that? You do know it is a liquid cooled engine? I wouldn't be surprised to find a worn out starter, switch, relays or anything else associated with it.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Dudleygray » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:50 am

Good Point! I wish I had shared this flawed line of reasoning a lot earlier. In the early days the bike did overheat and there was a Honda recall that addressed the problem, but I rationalized that it was better to turn it off when outside temperatures were 100 degrees F and above at stoplights above a minute or two+. 104F to 106F are not uncommon here in afternoons on the 40 mile commute home. Freeway speeds are not the problem unless it’s stop & go which can be the case.

Thanks. I’ll thoroughly inspect the starter switch, relays and connections as you’ve suggested & likely will need to replace worn out components.
Admittedly I have a red face now, but am very thankful you’ve steered me straight. Too soon old, but not too late to learn. Again, I’m much obliged for your rapid response and candid advice. Your due diligence is rare these days and so valued.
Dudleygray

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by GoldWingrGreg » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:22 am

In the very back of my Service Manual (2001-05), the connector you are looking for is call "C5". In my manual it's in the ETM section, 12-6, picture 42.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Agila » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 am

I just bought a 2005 goldwing with 40,000 miles and have the same problem , i would appreciate if you could post the result on what you have done to resolve the issue.this is my first time in this forum. thank you. A lot of very experience wingers . Thank you for your advice and help with our fellow riders.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by DaveO430 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:21 am

Agila wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 am
I just bought a 2005 goldwing with 40,000 miles and have the same problem , i would appreciate if you could post the result on what you have done to resolve the issue.this is my first time in this forum. thank you. A lot of very experience wingers . Thank you for your advice and help with our fellow riders.
Which issue?

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Techdude2000 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:03 pm

A defective C5 will not cause the dash to go out or the clock to reset during starting. That symptom is localized to the battery and/or it’s connections. Make sure the backside/contact side of the battery cables are clean. If they are clean and tight, then hook a voltmeter to the battery and watch the voltage as you turn on the key and then while you hit the starter button. If it drops below 11.3 volts, you need a new battery.

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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Agila » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 am

DaveO430 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:21 am
Agila wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 am
I just bought a 2005 goldwing with 40,000 miles and have the same problem , i would appreciate if you could post the result on what you have done to resolve the issue.this is my first time in this forum. thank you. A lot of very experience wingers . Thank you for your advice and help with our fellow riders.
Which issue?
the clock would reset to 1:00 pm and the trip meter would turn zero.

Agila
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Agila » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:12 am

Techdude2000 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:03 pm
A defective C5 will not cause the dash to go out or the clock to reset during starting. That symptom is localized to the battery and/or it’s connections. Make sure the backside/contact side of the battery cables are clean. If they are clean and tight, then hook a voltmeter to the battery and watch the voltage as you turn on the key and then while you hit the starter button. If it drops below 11.3 volts, you need a new battery.
thank youTechdude will try that, hope it works. Im glad to be a part of this group everyday is a learning process thank you Techdude.

Agila
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Re: Intermittent starter switch? & F1 light

Post by Agila » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:31 am

Techdude2000 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:03 pm
A defective C5 will not cause the dash to go out or the clock to reset during starting. That symptom is localized to the battery and/or it’s connections. Make sure the backside/contact side of the battery cables are clean. If they are clean and tight, then hook a voltmeter to the battery and watch the voltage as you turn on the key and then while you hit the starter button. If it drops below 11.3 volts, you need a new battery.
thank youTechdude will try that, hope it works. Im glad to be a part of this group everyday is a learning process thank you Techdude.
Agila wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 am
I just bought a 2005 goldwing with 40,000 miles and have the same problem , i would appreciate if you could post the result on what you have done to resolve the issue.this is my first time in this forum. thank you. A lot of very experience wingers . Thank you for your advice and help with our fellow riders.
DaveO430 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:21 am
Agila wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 am
I just bought a 2005 goldwing with 40,000 miles and have the same problem , i would appreciate if you could post the result on what you have done to resolve the issue.this is my first time in this forum. thank you. A lot of very experience wingers . Thank you for your advice and help with our fellow riders.
Which issue?
Agila wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 am
DaveO430 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:21 am
Agila wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 am
I just bought a 2005 goldwing with 40,000 miles and have the same problem , i would appreciate if you could post the result on what you have done to resolve the issue.this is my first time in this forum. thank you. A lot of very experience wingers . Thank you for your advice and help with our fellow riders.
Which issue?
the clock would reset to 1:00 pm and the trip meter would turn zero.when you start the wing. Dave0430 its my first time in this forum and still learning. thank you



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