Activate Nav while moving


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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by WingAdmin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:03 pm



kenburkhalter wrote:I find it hard to believe that Honda engineers were so short sighted as to lock out all key presses on the Nav system. If they had at least let the Enter and Back keys work to allow you you open the Map display while underway and you forgot to start it, or restore it's operation after a menu or cursor action taken when stopped, I believe the that would have been a much safer design approach than forcing you to pull off an expressway onto the shoulder, come to a stop, correct things and then attempt to re-merge into traffic flow.

That approach seems extremely short sighted and unsafe to me.
It wasn't the Honda engineers that locked out all keypresses on the Nav system while underway. It was the Honda lawyers. They don't want to be sued by the family of some guy who was killed trying to operate his GPS while riding into the back end of a tractor trailer.



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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:18 pm

Yah. Unfortunately, how true.

Hard to sue someone for actions you take (like reemerging with expressway traffic) that are not DIRECTLY related to your product (like button presses).

Well rest assured. I'm NOT TELLING ANYONE where I got my nifty fix from !!! :D

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by canuck623 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:36 pm

This can hurt you so do so at your own risk. No need to cut wires. All you have to do is pull in the clutch lever and turn the key to the accessory position. When the speedo drops to zero you can hit the map button and it starts right up. You can do anything that you can do with the bike sitting still. I do this if I take off and forget to turn it back on in the middle of a trip. I have gone as far as to hit the Go Home button or found an old route but you would be far to distracted to program a new trip. Like I said....at your own risk but it does work.
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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:53 pm

Actually only had to cut the wire to the Nav unit. Not hard to do once you find it under the seat, but admittedly there is not much length to work with. I did have to use a jeweler's loop to make the solder connections big enough to easily work with.

But that done the Nav system access is now an easy process to work with.

I've never tried it, but I assume that turning the key to Accessory kills the engine which then must be restarted by letting the clutch out. Kinda sounds like a high-siding accident just waiting to happen though.

I feel a lot safer just cutting the one wire and quick-clip splicing into the other!

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by canuck623 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:33 pm

No danger of a high side accident. It's no different than a bump start but you are going faster so when you turn the key back to run and let the clutch out it just spins the engine up and away you go. If you do it going down a little grade no one will even know you did it.

I do like your idea but to me you are removing your throttle hand to turn on the nav and that means you would have to have the cruise control set but if you cut the speed reading that shouldn't work either. If you are coasting while your turning on the nav you would slow faster than pulling in the clutch and coasting.
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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:55 pm

This mod does not affect the cruise control. The only thing it affects is the map position updating and the turn signals. The turn signals will not self cancel and the map position will not update if the speed sense line is open.

cancuck623 I have done that method very dangerous specially on bad windy roads. But if that is the method
you like to use be careful with either method.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by canuck623 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Well lets just say that if you are doing it on bad, windy roads I should be the one to warn you to be careful. I would never consider doing it on anything but a smooth down hill slope with no turns and little traffic. We are responsible for our own safety that's why I said to be careful. Having said that...there is no way the engine in 5th gear can overcome the traction of the rear tire during a careful bump start. I have removed the power from the rear wheel so the bike is not driving forward under cruise control in the event that someone changed lanes in front of you while you are pushing buttons.
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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:19 am

Actually I don't have to worry about being careful using either mod. I posted a more advanced mod on this
board that doesn't require any input from the operator.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:22 am

canuck623 wrote: I do like your idea but to me you are removing your throttle hand to turn on the nav and that means you would have to have the cruise control set but if you cut the speed reading that shouldn't work either. If you are coasting while your turning on the nav you would slow faster than pulling in the clutch and coasting.
Perhaps I am missing something, but to pull the clutch in AND turn the key to Accessory position, I can't see any way to do that BUT to remove my hand from the throttle in order to turn the key.

With the 'jinx' mod I can keep my hand on the throttle while pushing the REV button in, then only very briefly reach over and tap BACK or ENT on the Nav control buttons. That takes about 1 second and the bike speed does not perceptibly change at all in that time.

Re "hi-siding" I had a friend nearly killed when he was exiting from the expressway with the rear brake gently applied and the rear tire hit a tar snake (crack repair) stopped turning for a moment and then flipped the bike when it got traction again. That seems dangerously close to trying to restart the engine by letting the clutch out unless it is carefully feathered.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by canuck623 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:51 am

kenburkhalter wrote:
canuck623 wrote: I do like your idea but to me you are removing your throttle hand to turn on the nav and that means you would have to have the cruise control set but if you cut the speed reading that shouldn't work either. If you are coasting while your turning on the nav you would slow faster than pulling in the clutch and coasting.
Perhaps I am missing something, but to pull the clutch in AND turn the key to Accessory position, I can't see any way to do that BUT to remove my hand from the throttle in order to turn the key.

With the 'jinx' mod I can keep my hand on the throttle while pushing the REV button in, then only very briefly reach over and tap BACK or ENT on the Nav control buttons. That takes about 1 second and the bike speed does not perceptibly change at all in that time.

Re "hi-siding" I had a friend nearly killed when he was exiting from the expressway with the rear brake gently applied and the rear tire hit a tar snake (crack repair) stopped turning for a moment and then flipped the bike when it got traction again. That seems dangerously close to trying to restart the engine by letting the clutch out unless it is carefully feathered.
I my case the engine is not still engaged when my hand is off the grip for those same few seconds.

Two things here to note. Tar snakes are to be respected and doing anything other than avoiding them is not smart and "carefully feathered" throttle is just smart. Oh and just a side note to asillinesss sillyness, Wingstuff has a little plug and play add on to the NAV that turns it on for you if you forget and pull away mid trip. So there is no need to play with clutches or cut factory wires anyway.
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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:05 am

That makes sense. Thanks for the comment.

Wingstuff is a great resource. I have lots of things from them. I'll have to look for the NAV enhancement! :)

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:23 am

Sorry it is not plug and play you must cut the speed sense line for it to work. If you want to find out how they
did it check my mode on this site. Theirs is very similar to that. And it has a problem with 06 thru 08s.
If the nav resets after the 30 sec. wait time your screwed the mod will not auto-enter and you will be locked out
of the nav. Also if you try to make entry's into the system before the time out it will send the enter command anyway, which will screw up what you are trying to do. I know because I made and used a very similar mod/method
for 3 years before going to a better system.

Again if you want an idea of how they did it look at my other nav mod on this board.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:56 am

jinx-

Thanks a bunch for your useful feedback.

In-point-of-fact I am VERY happy with you simpler (1st) mode. Other than finding the correct wires to tap into/cut the rest was a breeze and in operation is so quick and easy to use I find it easily fulfills all of my needs.

BTW- for anyone else interested I used an Omron G6A-234P-BS-DC12-ND DPDT mini relay ($8.79) from www.digikey.com. It's very small (the size of a thick IC chip) and easily mounted with velcro near the relay box under the seat.

Also being double pole it allows one to connect both pole circuits together in parallel for redundancy, to get maximum assurance of always getting a good contact closure.

I was just interested in what WingStuff might have done from an engineering point of view (a retired one of which I am) rather than a purchase perspective. ;)

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:45 pm

kenburkhalter
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14221

Just look at the nav mod in the link. It is the same as the commercial mod. Although mine was built about a year or two earlier. In the post I show the prototype board I did create a pc board.

Basically a timer is set for 13 sec. then activates a relay to open the sense line to the nav board. This is in case you are moving before the nag screen pops up. then 2 secs later the enter command is transmitted on the data line to the nav board.

If it is designed properly the mod will fit in the truck in the nav case. Also I spliced a plug in the wire harness so the mod can be removed and a dummy plug used to put the nav back to factory.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:49 pm

I had looked over your design previously and was very impressed by what you did.

Nice job of integrating electronics & code into a very compact and capable package.

Ever since the day I bought my '06 Wing I've wanted to fix the Nav lockout issue, but despite my extensive computer design background (I've designed three) and written real-time operating systems I never dug deep enough to figure out how to do it.

Once I saw what you did (in conjunction with the Repair manual and schematics) it was obvious, but hindsight alway seems to bring incredibly more "vision" to a problem, than cracking the nut in the first place.

You did good !! :-}

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by RandyB » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Great Mod! I followed the steps from the first post and it works perfectly.
I've only owned a wing for about three weeks, an 08 airbag, and have been very impressed with the engineering that went into this bike. All the bells, whistles and buttons (of which there are plenty) seemed nicely located and easy to use,that is until I tried to operate the nav while moving. It clicked with me immediately and I thought....Damn Lawyers.
Struck me as odd too, that you can use every other button while moving except the suspension adjustment. Sure go ahead adjust the dimmers and the stereo fader all you want, but God forbid you turn the map screen on :?
Anyway, love the bike and this mod and yes all the nav functions operate while moving with the switch in. Well except for position tracking, which is why you have to release the switch when your done messin with it.
Thanks!

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by schiel1 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:30 am

I had an aftermarket unit and loved it until I dropped it. Went looking for a new one but at the price of over 600.00 for a "motorcycle" unit I decided not to get it.(rip off) I now have a 2012 W/ NAV. and ABS (After owning a 2005 W/ ABS, I would never buy a bike without it again) Yes, the OEM NAV has it's draw backs but you get used to them. One thing I learned to do is insert the key and immediately turn it to Accessory. By the time I get my helmet and coat on the GPS is up and running with no wait. What I like the most is that I don't have to constantly take the unit on and off and locking it up. We all complain of others texting while driving. Please tell me the difference with that and playing with our GPS?? and since the majority of us (me included) is of the older group, I don't think we need anything to distract us anymore than needed. Just think back and remember how many times you got lucky and said to yourself
WOW that was close. I should have seen that" Just for the record, I used to play with my GPS all the time and did get distracted. Because of that I am going to keep my unit just the way it is. (NO offence to anyone intended just my opinion)

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by kenburkhalter » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:26 am

schiel1-

I totally agree with your comments, and have always preferred factory GPS units in my vehicles, even though they are usually not as feature rich as 3rd party add-ons.

Not having to figure out a solid mount for an add-on; not having to raise a hand to shield the screen from sunlight, so it can be read; not having to remove the add-on every time I walked away from the bike, are all big benefits that IMHO more than compensate for missing features which would be nice but are not deal breakers.

I have never texted while driving, and abhor the sight of anyone doing so.

That said, just as fire can be good or bad depending on usage, I think this "Nav Mod" is the same.

Anyone trying to use the Nav System while moving is just asking for disaster, but as I said in an earlier post here, I don't think that anyone could argue that quickly pressing only the EXIT or ENTER buttons to re-enable a stuck map is anywhere near as dangerous as discovering the stuck map after you are underway on an expressway (which has happened to us numerous times when we are touring) and have to pull off to the shoulder, stop the bike, restart the Map, and then pull back into moving high speed traffic.

Like anything else in life, there is a large difference between doing a task responsibly versus irresponsibly.

I support your concerns and observations 100%, and feel this Nav modification is not inconsistent with those thoughts when "responsibly" used.

In that case, this mod appears to be more of a safety improvement, rather than a potential hazard. ;)

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by canuck623 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:51 am

kenburkhalter wrote:schiel1-

I totally agree with your comments, and have always preferred factory GPS units in my vehicles, even though they are usually not as feature rich as 3rd party add-ons.

Not having to figure out a solid mount for an add-on; not having to raise a hand to shield the screen from sunlight, so it can be read; not having to remove the add-on every time I walked away from the bike, are all big benefits that IMHO more than compensate for missing features which would be nice but are not deal breakers.

I have never texted while driving, and abhor the sight of anyone doing so.

That said, just as fire can be good or bad depending on usage, I think this "Nav Mod" is the same.

Anyone trying to use the Nav System while moving is just asking for disaster, but as I said in an earlier post here, I don't think that anyone could argue that quickly pressing only the EXIT or ENTER buttons to re-enable a stuck map is anywhere near as dangerous as discovering the stuck map after you are underway on an expressway (which has happened to us numerous times when we are touring) and have to pull off to the shoulder, stop the bike, restart the Map, and then pull back into moving high speed traffic.

Like anything else in life, there is a large difference between doing a task responsibly versus irresponsibly.

I support your concerns and observations 100%, and feel this Nav modification is not inconsistent with those thoughts when "responsibly" used.

In that case, this mod appears to be more of a safety improvement, rather than a potential hazard. ;)

Well said and I agree that being able to turn on the GPS if you got underway and forgot to hit the enter button first. Happens to me quite often. Rather than stop I just do my clutch in, key to accessory, hit the map button thing and carry on. No cost involved and no cutting of wires. What ever works for each individual is fine. Inputting a route while riding? No way. That would be too much distraction in my view.
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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:32 pm

TwoBrothersBusa

I won't answer that question. Its not safe to play with the Nav while riding I know I tried. But I assume you are an adult and are responsible for your actions.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by msilber » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:44 pm

Hi. I just did this mod today and it works great! I'm finally rid of the one remaining irritation on my 2010 Nav/ABS.

A couple of notes:
(1) the mod works great as published here by jinx (thanks jinx!). I didn't have to do anything additional to a clutch switch as mentioned in a couple of other posts.
(2) The WHT/BLK speed sensor wire is indeed under the seat at the right rear (looking forward), near the trunk inside the rubber boot, but it's at one of the corners of the 6-pin connector, not on the 10-pin.
(3) I used an unused accessory switch (3 switches with indicator lights, replaces the clutch master cylinder cap, available from Wingstuff.com) instead of the RVS switch to supply 12V to the relay, so I was able to use the normally closed contacts for the speed pulse. Seems pretty failsafe since the default condition passes the signal. Maybe that's why I didn't have to tap the clutch wire since I didn't use the RVS.
(4) Everything was soldered and shrink wrapped for long term reliability. I used the ELK-912 relay as suggested since it has nice convenient screw terminals.
(5) If you forget to turn off the switch the nav thinks you're standing still and doesn't update. Pretty obvious after a couple of minutes, and the indicator light on the switch serves as an additional reminder.

Other than that, I can now access the nav just fine while moving. Great mod!

Just be careful. Heads up.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:31 am

Thanks for the feedback . glad it worked out for you.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by PastoT » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:00 pm

Not to dredge up an dead mouse, but why not simply splice an momentary off switch into the speed sensor wire and position the switch adjacent the NAV unit. Take this suggestion in light that I have an 02 which I means I can't test my idea, I only understand the PITA of stopping to restart the onboard NAV. I also wonder if having installed a Speedo Healer if the max speed recall function would allow the NAV to be restarted? I know if I press the MAX speed button it kills the speedo and sends its own signal to it for a few seconds; I suspect it leaves the bike sensing 0 mph as the cruise control disengages immediately and I know it splices into the speed sensor wires. Just wondering.
Tom, in Mountain Home, Idaho
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Retired Air Force

"Audentes Fortuna Juvat"

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by jinx » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Will not work on 06-08. On 09 and up just opening the speed sense should be all you need but on 06 - 08 you need to do more than just open the speed sense.

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Re: Activate Nav while moving

Post by Wingrider44 » Fri May 30, 2014 10:06 am

After thinking about the pros and cons of this modification, I came to the conclusion there really was no good reason not to do it. I went with the all under the seat option after I picked up a 275-248 relay from Radio Shack for a meager $4.49. The only reason to go with the second option is that with the under the seat option is that the coil of the relay is carrying 12 volts all the time except when you have the RVS button pushed in. With option 2, the coil only has 12 volts across it when the RVS button is pushed. If the relay coil burns out, the speed sense line is opened and you have no GPS function at all. Doing it with the wire from C18 (option 2) is a lot more work so I decided to take the risk (and the lazy way out :) ) with the original mod. Plus I figured that if I'm on the road and the GPS went out due to the above, I could easily re-attached the speed sense wire and be back in business.

One other thing, at least as it relates to a 2008, the speed sense wire is in C40 which is a 6 pin connector. I don't know about the 2006s and 2007s. Just make sure you get the right wire. White with a black stripe.

I tried it out and it works flawlessly. Doubt that I will use it much but it's good to know that I won't have to pull of the road to accomplish some mundane key presses. Thank you Jinx.


Jaap Kroes
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2009 GL1800 Dark Blue Metallic

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