Rake Kit - How do you know you have it


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-2017)
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socal_jimmy
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Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by socal_jimmy »



Hi All. I have a previously owned 2005 Honda Gold Wing. Is there a way to tell if there is a rack kit installed?


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tfdeputydawg
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by tfdeputydawg »

If the triple trees are aluminum color it's raked.
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Ghostman
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by Ghostman »

Also you can look at the clearance between the back of the fender and the cowl . With the front tire straight if you can put your fist longways between you have a raked front end. A stock front end has very little clearance between the 2. The trick is figuring out how much of a rake you have if yours is raked.
socal_jimmy
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by socal_jimmy »

Thanks guys. I looking forward to checking both when I get back to the house.
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by newday777 »

Stock rake has about 3" from the tire to the cowl.
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by Wilcoy02 »

OK please enlighten me.

What is a rake? How does it get changed?

I need educated.
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newday777
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by newday777 »

Rake kit is a triple tree that is at a different angle to move the forks and wheel forward a few degrees from stock to help steering on trikes and sidecar rigs steer easier.
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newday777
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by newday777 »

socal_jimmy wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:46 pm Hi All. I have a previously owned 2005 Honda Gold Wing. Is there a way to tell if there is a rack kit installed?
What did you find Jimmy
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

socal_jimmy wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:46 pm Is there a way to tell if there is a rack kit installed?
Sometimes I will go to the manufacture of the trike kit's rake-kits web page, and see if the one in question looks the same. I might be able to help if you post a picture of the top bridge.
socal_jimmy
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by socal_jimmy »

Thanks every one. I sure have a lot of rake. I can put my fist between and then some. :D
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by CrystalPistol »

Wilcoy02 wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:49 pm OK please enlighten me.

What is a rake? How does it get changed?

I need educated.
A rake kit is not something to even con sider for a BIKE, but on a TRIKE that steers by actually turning the handle bars into the turn, the built in TRAIL of what was a BIKE has the contact patch a good deal behind the STEERING STEM AXIS, like trying to turn a caster, it makes very heavy steering on a TRIKE. Even just pulling out of a gas station with handlebars turned sharp to enter traffic can be a job if gassing on the throttle.

A "rake kit" really only changes the angle of the fork tubes, adding rake, to shorten trail, to greatly ease steering of a TRIKE and it makes for better control and enjoyment.


To prevent an un wanted drop in the front, extensions of 2 or 2-1/2" are used at top of fork tubes within top triple tree.

Think about that old John Deer tractor with single front wheel on a vertical post steering knuckle, has "0" trail, will stay in a circle even, easy to steer. Some Trail helps with high speeds stability, and On a BIKE that you steer by counter steering, is hardly noticed.
socal_jimmy wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:22 pm Thanks every one. I sure have a lot of rake. I can put my fist between and then some. :D
Likely you have 6 degrees additional … aka … a "6 degree kit". You may have just 4.5 degrees. 4.5 will help tremendously, 6 is like "4.5 plus power steering". If you had ridden it before the kit, you'd have thought you was driving a old "C-cab Mack" with a load of logs.
Make Courtesy your "Code of the Road" …

… & Have a Safe Trip!
:)
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by Ravyn »

First off if all you are doing is changing your triple trees you are simply extending your front end you nare not raking anything. Raking is when you modify your steering stem on the frame not by adding tripple trees.
Here is a good article by DMC sidecars in Buckley, Wa. Read it and understand what you are talking about.

First off, we are NOT raking the front end! What we are doing is changing the angle of the forks in relationship to the steering head angle of the bike. This looks exactly like we "raked" the bike but in fact that rake has not been changed. Companies and people that tell you that the tree's are raking the front end either do not understand what they are doing or do not care as such I recommend staying away from any company that tells you they are raking the front end with tree's as they clearly do not understand the basics of what they are doing or they do not credit you with enough smarts to understand what they are doing.

By changing the angle of the forks in relationship to the steering head we are reducing trail. Reducing trail lowers the steering effort by taking some of the stability out of the front end. We can get away with this as we have added the stability that a third wheel has to offer. When you turn the handle bars you are swinging the front wheel through an arc, lower the trail and the arc is shortened as such you end up moving the sidecar (and or trike rear wheels) less when you move the bars.

To change the rake on the front of a bike the angle of the steering head needs to be changed. This can be done many ways including changing the ride height at the rear of the bike, lower the rear and the rake angle increases. Raise the rear end and it decreases. You can cut the frame and weld the steering neck at a different angle or there are companies that have special steering stem bearings that allow the steering stem's angle to be changed in relationship to the head stock on the bike. This does change the rake but does little to change the trail but people try these bearings anyways as they are fairly cheap and they think wrongly that it will help lower the steering effort as a three wheeler.

In an ideal world we would have less rake on the front end for sidecar use as the more rake, the more you are causing the front of the bike to raise and drop when you move the bars.

I have people often ask me about putting sidecars on cruiser type bikes as they figure that they usually have a lot of rake on the front end that they should steer better with the sidecar. Again people are confusing rake and trail. Rake is often all about creating a certain "look" But when manufactures set the rake, they also adjust the trail to where it needs to be.

"Chopper" type bikes often have a lot of rake to give the look they are after, I would venture a guess the most of the companies building chopper type bikes do not have a clue about trail, looks are far more important then function. These bike seldom are ridden far and there is pleanty more about them that makes them cornner poorly, often stop poorly, ride poorly and in general really not work all that well. Again, looks are more important then how it works. I suspect in your youth, how it looked was more important then how it worked and more then likely your standards of "safe" where not what they are today.

One nice thing today is we have lots more options for triple tree's that reduce trail due to the current fad of stupidly larger diameter front wheels that require a change in at the tree's in order to end up with the proper trail on the front end. When you change to a larger diameter front wheel you are increasing trail making it necessary to reduce trail with the triple tree's. And before any one jumps in and tells me that the larger wheel is not "stupid" I suggest doing a quick study of gyroscopic progression and its effects on handling.

Of course another way to reduce trail would be to put a smaller wheel on the front which we some times do with smaller diameter automotive wheels, but this also brings up another set of issues.

If you reduce trail on the front of the bike for easier steering, if you then ride it with out the sidecar you will find that it does not really want to turn. Turning takes more effort to get the bike to lean, once leaned you must maintain pressure on the handle bars to keep turning as if you let up pressure the bike will stand up and go straight. With stock trail once you start a turn if throttle positions stayed the same you could let go of the bars and the bike would continue going in a circle.

So in short. We are NOT raking the front end for sidecar use!

Jay G
DMC sidecars
http://www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Wilcoy02 wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:49 pm OK please enlighten me.

What is a rake? How does it get changed?

I need educated.
On 5th gen GL1800s, a rake kit is an aftermarket triple tree that increases the fork angle an add'l 4.5-6.5 degrees. In almost all cases they are used on 3-wheeled Wings. If a rake kit is installed on a 2-whl, they handle poorly and are not very agile.
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Re: Rake Kit - How do you know you have it

Post by Ravyn »

Gold wing greg. read the post I posted from DMC !!!! Triple trees do not rake your bike.


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