Starting issue


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-2017)
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208wrenchman
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Starting issue

Post by 208wrenchman »



I have looked in many different places and have yet to see this problem addressed. I am working on a friends 2001 1800. It starts only with the clutch pulled in. When the side stand is up and in neutral it will not start unless the clutch is engaged. I have looked at the wiring diagrams and don't see where what would prevent it from starting. All other functions are normal. My 2010 will start with the bike in neutral and no clutch. It is not a big problem, I would like to fix it for him.


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WingAdmin
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Re: Starting issue

Post by WingAdmin »

Looking at the circuit diagram, the only failure mode I see for this is a failed sidestand switch.

Starter Circuit Diagram
Starter Circuit Diagram

Replacement sidestand switch: /Store/New-Used ... owItem=172
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Ghostman
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Ghostman »

It could also be the switch on the clutch lever,and when was the last time the lever bushings were cleaned and greased. Sometimes the bushings wear and cause this issue.
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MikeB
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Re: Starting issue

Post by MikeB »

In looking at the simplified starting dagram, it appears that there is something left out but it is just a smiplified diagram.

There has to be a path for ground to starter relays A and B. It would appear that ground is supplied through the Reverse Relay but the contacts should be closed or maybe the diagram is not drawn accurately.

If ground is supplied from the Reverse Relay, then the path for ground to the relay is coming from either the clutch swith through the side stand switch or from the Neutral switch contact in the gear position switch. Ground is needed from one or the other.
If it is necessary to hold the clutch switch in with the sidestand up to start the engine, then the ground path from the Neutral contact in the gear position switch could be faulty. If not the Neutral switch, then perhaps the Reverse Regulator Assembly connector has an open circuit

Both of these ground sources come through the Reverse Regulator Assembly. Perhaps there are some connections to the Reverse Regulator Assembly that are compromised or the Assembly itself is defective.


MikeB
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newday777
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Re: Starting issue

Post by newday777 »

208wrenchman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm I have looked in many different places and have yet to see this problem addressed. I am working on a friends 2001 1800. It starts only with the clutch pulled in. When the side stand is up and in neutral it will not start unless the clutch is engaged. I have looked at the wiring diagrams and don't see where what would prevent it from starting. All other functions are normal. My 2010 will start with the bike in neutral and no clutch. It is not a big problem, I would like to fix it for him.
Welcome to the forum 208wrenchman
I see this is your 1st post.

The neutral switch is a common problem on these older 1800s. A friend had one go out on his 01 at 120,000 miles.
My 08 is having problems getting the neutral light to come on and it's at 148,000 miles.
If the neutral light isn't coming on even though it's in neutral, that is in the safety circuit and will need to be replaced to get it to start properly as you want.
Techdude2000
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Techdude2000 »

208wrenchman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 pm I have looked in many different places and have yet to see this problem addressed. I am working on a friends 2001 1800. It starts only with the clutch pulled in. When the side stand is up and in neutral it will not start unless the clutch is engaged. I have looked at the wiring diagrams and don't see where what would prevent it from starting. All other functions are normal. My 2010 will start with the bike in neutral and no clutch. It is not a big problem, I would like to fix it for him.
Does he have a good neutral light? If so, then he has an open diode in the reverse regulator assembly. If he’s not getting a good neutral light, then it’s the gear position sensor or a bad connection on the reverse regulator assembly’s connector. The assembly is hidden by the left saddlebag, to the rear of the battery and the starter relays.
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Re: Starting issue

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Techdude2000 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:53 pm Does he have a good neutral light? If so, then he has an open diode in the reverse regulator assembly. If he’s not getting a good neutral light, then it’s the gear position sensor or a bad connection on the reverse regulator assembly’s connector. The assembly is hidden by the left saddlebag, to the rear of the battery and the starter relays.
I was hop'n you to get involved with this one :) The complaint is obviously different than most others.
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Techdude2000 »

MikeB wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:52 pm In looking at the simplified starting dagram, it appears that there is something left out but it is just a smiplified diagram.

There has to be a path for ground to starter relays A and B. It would appear that ground is supplied through the Reverse Relay but the contacts should be closed or maybe the diagram is not drawn accurately.

If ground is supplied from the Reverse Relay, then the path for ground to the relay is coming from either the clutch swith through the side stand switch or from the Neutral switch contact in the gear position switch. Ground is needed from one or the other.
If it is necessary to hold the clutch switch in with the sidestand up to start the engine, then the ground path from the Neutral contact in the gear position switch could be faulty. If not the Neutral switch, then perhaps the Reverse Regulator Assembly connector has an open circuit

Both of these ground sources come through the Reverse Regulator Assembly. Perhaps there are some connections to the Reverse Regulator Assembly that are compromised or the Assembly itself is defective.
GL1800 Start System Simplified Highlighted.jpg
This diagram fails to show you the neutral light being grounded by the gps via the reverse regulator assembly. The gps grounds it with another internal diode from the same input of the switch to the regulator. If the neutral light is working, then the ground is getting lost in the regulator before it makes it out to the reverse relay.
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Re: Starting issue

Post by MikeB »

Techdude2000 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:06 pm
MikeB wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:52 pm In looking at the simplified starting dagram, it appears that there is something left out but it is just a smiplified diagram.

There has to be a path for ground to starter relays A and B. It would appear that ground is supplied through the Reverse Relay but the contacts should be closed or maybe the diagram is not drawn accurately.

If ground is supplied from the Reverse Relay, then the path for ground to the relay is coming from either the clutch swith through the side stand switch or from the Neutral switch contact in the gear position switch. Ground is needed from one or the other.
If it is necessary to hold the clutch switch in with the sidestand up to start the engine, then the ground path from the Neutral contact in the gear position switch could be faulty. If not the Neutral switch, then perhaps the Reverse Regulator Assembly connector has an open circuit

Both of these ground sources come through the Reverse Regulator Assembly. Perhaps there are some connections to the Reverse Regulator Assembly that are compromised or the Assembly itself is defective.
GL1800 Start System Simplified Highlighted.jpg
This diagram fails to show you the neutral light being grounded by the gps via the reverse regulator assembly. The gps grounds it with another internal diode from the same input of the switch to the regulator. If the neutral light is working, then the ground is getting lost in the regulator before it makes it out to the reverse relay.
Yes of course, it is a simplifed diagram as I said. Not eveything is depited for sure.

gps? I have to assume you are referring to gear position switch. Non-standard abreviations really throw me a curve.
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Techdude2000
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Techdude2000 »

Sorry Mike, yea GPS = gear position switch/sensor. This bike has a unique failure mode, I’ve seen failures of the RRA, reverse regulator assembly, but they have been different than this one. It’s fun when one of the diodes shorts in it and no longer isolates a ground and let’s it get to the wrong circuit.
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AZgl1800
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Re: Starting issue

Post by AZgl1800 »

Techdude2000 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:58 pm Sorry Mike, yea GPS = gear position switch/sensor. This bike has a unique failure mode, I’ve seen failures of the RRA, reverse regulator assembly, but they have been different than this one. It’s fun when one of the diodes shorts in it and no longer isolates a ground and let’s it get to the wrong circuit.
This is a situation where you should NOT be using short terms to describe a condition.
99.98 percent of the people who read that, including me, are thinking you are an idiot for explaining that ground goes through a GPS Unit ( Global Position System ) :roll:

Likewise, I have never, ever, seen the term 'RRA' used and had no idea of what you are trying to say...
The fact I own an 1800 does not make me knowledgeable of that fact....

really appreciate your tech expertise in these threads. 8-)
~John

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2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc
208wrenchman
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Re: Starting issue

Post by 208wrenchman »

Thanks everyone that gave me answers to this problem. After the the bike was serviced, oil and filter and air filter changed. The bike was on its kickstand (indicator illuminated), in neutral (indicator illuminated) and clutch out it started. So I don't have an issue any longer.
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newday777
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Re: Starting issue

Post by newday777 »

208wrenchman wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:31 am Thanks everyone that gave me answers to this problem. After the the bike was serviced, oil and filter and air filter changed. The bike was on its kickstand (indicator illuminated), in neutral (indicator illuminated) and clutch out it started. So I don't have an issue any longer.
What fixed it then???
("That gave me the answers to this problem" doesn't tell anyone later on exactly what you did to fix the problem) Your part of being on any forum like this is to reply back what the actual fix was so others later might find an answer to their similar problems.
208wrenchman
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Re: Starting issue

Post by 208wrenchman »

I wish I knew what fixed it, but I am thinking it was the sidestand switch. It is very touchy in its position.
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newday777
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Re: Starting issue

Post by newday777 »

208wrenchman wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:04 am I wish I knew what fixed it, but I am thinking it was the sidestand switch. It is very touchy in its position.
Have you cleaned the sidestand switch?
Or cleaned out and greased the sidestand pivot bolt?(very necessary maintenance item- full disassembly)
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Re: Starting issue

Post by ron203 »

My '08 was giving me that issue so I replaced the side stand switch. Done. One bolt.
Techdude2000
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Techdude2000 »

208wrenchman wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:04 am I wish I knew what fixed it, but I am thinking it was the sidestand switch. It is very touchy in its position.
Doubt it, the side stand has to provide the ground in the up position or the engine will die as soon as you put it into gear and it is the source of the ground that the clutch lever sends on to the reverse regulator assembly when you squeeze the lever. My guess is corrosion on the reverse regulator assembly’s connector. If it returns, pull the left saddlebag away from the frame and unplug the regulator and clean its connector. If corrosion is the culprit, you will see it again and possibly more symptoms that might strand you with a no-start again.
Techdude2000
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Techdude2000 »

208wrenchman wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:31 am Thanks everyone that gave me answers to this problem. After the the bike was serviced, oil and filter and air filter changed. The bike was on its kickstand (indicator illuminated), in neutral (indicator illuminated) and clutch out it started. So I don't have an issue any longer.
When it wasn’t working, did you have a good neutral light?
Techdude2000
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Re: Starting issue

Post by Techdude2000 »

AZgl1800 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:04 pm
Techdude2000 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:58 pm Sorry Mike, yea GPS = gear position switch/sensor. This bike has a unique failure mode, I’ve seen failures of the RRA, reverse regulator assembly, but they have been different than this one. It’s fun when one of the diodes shorts in it and no longer isolates a ground and let’s it get to the wrong circuit.
This is a situation where you should NOT be using short terms to describe a condition.
99.98 percent of the people who read that, including me, are thinking you are an idiot for explaining that ground goes through a GPS Unit ( Global Position System ) :roll:

Likewise, I have never, ever, seen the term 'RRA' used and had no idea of what you are trying to say...
The fact I own an 1800 does not make me knowledgeable of that fact....

really appreciate your tech expertise in these threads. 8-)
Sorry guys, was in a hurry and didn’t want to type out the full names. :oops:


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