2014 Goldwing/Valkyrie starts intermittently

[terkaly]

Sorry that I am posting on the Gold Wing forum when I have a 2014 Honda Valkyrie. Same engine so I thought someone here might be able to help.

I have an intermittent starting problem that even the dealership could not figure out. The dealership checked the usual things like the battery, potentially loose connections. The 2014 model with the 1832 CC engine has fuel injection. The dealership suggested it might be the fuel pump. They asked me if I would like to take a chance and replace that.

The engine cranks fine and starts 80% of the time.

Once the bike starts and I drive it to my local coffee shop, it always restarts for the ride home.

But as soon as the next day, it may not start.

I even rented a trailer and towed it to the dealership. As soon as I got there, it just started.

It is not related to any of these things.
• The ignition key is in the On or Run position
• The Kill Switch is in the Run position
• The Kickstand is up
• The transmission is in Neutral
• Weak Battery

I just replaced the plugs myself.

I have read about the engine crank sensor. I have been advised about the fuel pump potentially being the culprit.

Any ideas are welcome. I am confused why it would work most of the time, but not all of the time.

[Rambozo]

Depending on how intermittent it is there are some things you should test when it fails to start. If it never shows any problem at the dealer, they will be hard pressed to spend the time to diagnose it. Checking fuel pressure is a good idea. Just throwing parts at a problem seems to be all anyone wants to do anymore.
Put a fuel pressure gauge on it and wait for the no start condition. While you are waiting you can also see how consistent the pressure is and how it comes up when the key is switched on. The other thing to check for a no start is no spark. A quick way to check that when it fails to start, is to get a small neon tester that you can hold against the spark plug wire and it will flash every time there is a spark.
Once you have it narrowed down to spark or fuel, you can proceed. There are some things that will take out one, some the other and a few that can take out both. If you have both fuel pressure and spark, then you need to test that the injectors are firing. A noid light will do that.

BTW When it won't start, how long before it does? Do you try long enough for the battery to give up, or do you give up first, or does it eventually start?

While the crank sensor could be going bad, they typically fail opposite to what you have, they work fine when cold but fail when warmed up. The above tests will verify it's operation.

[GoldWingrGreg]

The most common part that causes a 5th gen Wing to crank, but not start, is the battery. With modern day electronic battery testers, they can test good. However, with a load tester, they'll test bad. Certainly, clean and tight connections are required too. Next in line is the crank sensor. They may or may not throw a DTC (digital trouble code). Hopefully your dealer has checked to see if there are any stored DTCs. Trying to get one to act up, while it is being tested, is nearly impossible. It's far cheaper to replace that part than to spend diagnostic money trying to prove that it is bad. In a perfect world, when thing fail, they stay failed; however, we've not live in that world since the mid 70s.

[terkaly]

Your guidance is appreciated. This has been bothering me for months. So nice of you to take the time to explain everything. Thank you!!

I will bring your notes to the dealership. Here is the guidance I will share with them:

Regarding how long I try starting - I do not keep trying until the battery fails. If it does not start within a few seconds I give up, because I do not want to drain the battery.

Problem only when cold - The odd thing is that the problem never happened when the bike was just ridden. Only if it had set overnight does it sometimes exhibit the inability to start.

Battery - Make sure the battery is really not the issue

Check the crank sensor - On another forum somebody wrote, "did notice the check engine light was flashing a few times and then stopping. So I start researching and I may have a problem with the crankshaft position sensor, also known on the parts list as a generator assy, pulse." I noticed the cost of the crank sensor part about 50 to 100 dollars. How long to install?

No DTCs - The dealership did check for the stored DTC's but did not find any. The guidance provided here was correct, "it is nearly impossible" to troubleshoot if it starts at the time of testing.

Check fuel pressure - and make sure it is consistent in a no start scenario

Check the spark plugs - using one of these neon testers, to make sure electricity is flowing.

Injectors - If the above does not seem to be the problem, use a noid light to check the injectors.

Excellent! Thanks!

[WingAdmin]

When you're cranking and it's not starting...can you smell raw fuel at the exhaust?

[terkaly]

Do I look for a smell even with fuel injection?

[WingAdmin]

Do I look for a smell even with fuel injection?

It's trying to start the engine. It HAS to be sending fuel there or else the engine would never start! If it's not lighting off, then raw, unburned fuel vapor is going to be sent down the exhaust. So if you are cranking and cranking, but never smell any fuel at the exhaust, then that's a pretty good reason why your engine isn't starting.

[terkaly]

Very helpful guidance about not smelling the fuel. I do not smell the fuel even though the engine is cranking away. Sometimes it will start if I give it a lot of throttle.

What would you replace and how long would it take? I am going to bring it to the mechanic.

Does a fuel injected bike have what is called the fuel pump or what ivory be placing something with respect to the injectors?

Any guesses about how much they should cost me? I live in California so I am sure I am going to pay through the nose.

Great guidance on this thread. Thank you..

[keithg64]

I'm not sure if the Valkyrie's have this grounding to engine but you can check.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=54338&sid=b2291d56 ... 3bc6629eda

[GoldWingrGreg]

I doubt it's a fuel pump, but a fuel pump flow test is easy to do. The seat has to come off and the fuel return hose routed into a measuring cup. The kill switch must be on and then turn the key on. When that occurs, the fuel pump pumps for about 2-3 seconds and begins to fill the cup. Next is to cycle the kill switch 4 more times, which cycles the pump, 4 more times. You'll need to allow the pump to finish pumping each time. Once testing is done, be sure to turn the key off.

It would help to know your mileage.

I believe the spec after the pump has cycle 5 times is 4.5oz. A healthy pump, and probably yours to because of its age will probably be in the 7oz range. The more worn they are the less they pump. Even one below spec will still start and 5th gen Wing.

The probability of your Wing having a battery problem, or a crank position sensor problem, is extremely high. Knowing that the battery is good, and pulling DTC codes, are critical next step.

[terkaly]

Thank you very much. I will bring this into the mechanic.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Can you post the mileage.