GL1800 clutch slave


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-2017)
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two_wheeled
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GL1800 clutch slave

Post by two_wheeled »



Hi, new member here. I recently purchased a 2002 GL1800. There is some very curious noise coming from the clutch slave. I took a video. Seems like the slave cylinder may need to be rebuilt soon. Is my diagnosis correct?
The clutch master cylinder reservoir is about 2/3 full of old fluid. Previous owner has never added fluid to the reservoir and he's owned it about 8 years. I've been around this bike the whole time so I know the fluid has never been changed or added.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by two_wheeled »

It may be difficult to hear in the video, but it's a "squishy" sound coming from the clutch cover area. Not at the handle.
Also, in case it does need to be rebuilt, I did some searching on the forums and online. Previous forum links to parts fiche's are expired and don't work. I can't find the slave listed in any parts fiche.
Thanks
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by MikeB »

The sound can be heard clearly.

First step would be to flush and fill the master and slave cylinder with fresh DOT 4 fluid.

If yo are looking for clutch slave cylinder parts, click on this link: https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon ... sion-cover
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by two_wheeled »

Got it thank you. I'll replace the fluid and see what happens.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by WingAdmin »

I would definitely plan a slave rebuild. I suspect this noise could be one of two things. Air bubbles squirting through an orifice, or failing rubber seals in the slave. If it's that much air, your clutch won't be working at all.

A clutch slave rebuild is a pretty quick and easy task. I did mine on my GL1500 recently: How to Remove, Rebuild and Reinstall your Clutch Slave Cylinder (VIDEO)
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Techdude2000 »

Once you pull the lower cowl off, you can check it’s weep hole for any fluid leaks. It’s on the right side of the housing looking at it from the front. The noise could simply be the lifter rod oil seal getting hard and dry. If it is then it should be replaced before it pops out of the case and allows engine oil to leak into the slave housing and out the weep hole. It used to be cheaper and easier to just replace the whole slave assembly, but like everything, the cost has gone up. This is the part number for the lifter rod seal #91204-MB0-013. It’s not on the slave diagram, it’s on the cylinder block diagram.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by two_wheeled »

Thanks guys. Appreciate the helpful replies.
The bike is new to me and I'm starting to go through it to do a bunch of maintenance. I got the Honda replacement parts today from RockyMountainATVMC to rebuild the slave, cuz why not, so I will just take care of it now and know that it's done.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by MikeB »

Techdude2000 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:52 pm Once you pull the lower cowl off, you can check it’s weep hole for any fluid leaks. It’s on the right side of the housing looking at it from the front. The noise could simply be the lifter rod oil seal getting hard and dry. If it is then it should be replaced before it pops out of the case and allows engine oil to leak into the slave housing and out the weep hole. It used to be cheaper and easier to just replace the whole slave assembly, but like everything, the cost has gone up. This is the part number for the lifter rod seal #91204-MB0-013. It’s not on the slave diagram, it’s on the cylinder block diagram.
I don't think that is the right part number for the rod. 91204-MB0-013 is a seal on the gear shift shaft.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Honda is good at using the same parts for its bikes. The 1200/1500/1800 internal clutch slave parts are the same. There is no weep hole on the slave cylinder located as mentioned behind the front lower cowling. The hardest and time consuming issue is getting it out of there. There are two small oil seals. The one for the slave cylinder piston is 91209-MB0-003. The one for the engine case is 91204-MB0-013.

I'd recommend a new slave cylinder spring, cup, and oil seal. When you remove the clutch slave cylinder take note and a picture of course, of the clutch lifter rod. May be thick on one end. Has to go back in the same way, or you will get oil leaks.

The issue with the slave cylinder is the build up of crud and such in the slave cylinder. Here's a picture of one not maintained:


This is from years of not changing the fluid, specifically becasue it is in a hard to get to spot, and very time consuming for such a small, but essential part of the hydraulic clutch system. Once you rebuild the clutch slave cylinder, may want to flush the hose before reinstalling the clutch slave cylinder. May want to consider changing/renewing the clutch hose as it can look good on the outside, but deteriorating on the inside. The hose can also weaken and more of the pressure is being used to expand the hose and being robbed from the intended use.

Recommend a fluid change of the clutch every two years, the same time you do the brake system fluid flush.

Get an OEM manual for your bike. The brake flush routine is well detailed in it, and follow it to the "T".

Good luck. Cheers
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

two_wheeled wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:48 pm Is my diagnosis correct?
Although your clutch fluid may need changed, and your clutch lever probably needs serviced too, the noise I'm hearing in your video is normal. If you start the engine, the noise should go away.

5th gens have an oil pressure assited clutch. Once the engine is turned off, and oil pressure is lost, a squishing should be heard on all 5th gen Wings.

To test:
- do the same test and listen to another Wing
- or finish changing the fluid and reverify that the noise is still there
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Techdude2000 »

MikeB wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:24 am
Techdude2000 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:52 pm Once you pull the lower cowl off, you can check it’s weep hole for any fluid leaks. It’s on the right side of the housing looking at it from the front. The noise could simply be the lifter rod oil seal getting hard and dry. If it is then it should be replaced before it pops out of the case and allows engine oil to leak into the slave housing and out the weep hole. It used to be cheaper and easier to just replace the whole slave assembly, but like everything, the cost has gone up. This is the part number for the lifter rod seal #91204-MB0-013. It’s not on the slave diagram, it’s on the cylinder block diagram.
I don't think that is the right part number for the rod. 91204-MB0-013 is a seal on the gear shift shaft.
According to my 02 parts list, the gear shifter shaft seal is this #91202-965-003
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by MikeB »

Techdude2000 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:30 pm
MikeB wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:24 am
Techdude2000 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:52 pm Once you pull the lower cowl off, you can check it’s weep hole for any fluid leaks. It’s on the right side of the housing looking at it from the front. The noise could simply be the lifter rod oil seal getting hard and dry. If it is then it should be replaced before it pops out of the case and allows engine oil to leak into the slave housing and out the weep hole. It used to be cheaper and easier to just replace the whole slave assembly, but like everything, the cost has gone up. This is the part number for the lifter rod seal #91204-MB0-013. It’s not on the slave diagram, it’s on the cylinder block diagram.
I don't think that is the right part number for the rod. 91204-MB0-013 is a seal on the gear shift shaft.
According to my 02 parts list, the gear shifter shaft seal is this #91202-965-003
Perhaps I am using the wrong diagram.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Techdude2000 »

Rednaxs60 wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:52 am Honda is good at using the same parts for its bikes. The 1200/1500/1800 internal clutch slave parts are the same. There is no weep hole on the slave cylinder located as mentioned behind the front lower cowling. The hardest and time consuming issue is getting it out of there. There are two small oil seals. The one for the slave cylinder piston is 91209-MB0-003. The one for the engine case is 91204-MB0-013.

I'd recommend a new slave cylinder spring, cup, and oil seal. When you remove the clutch slave cylinder take note and a picture of course, of the clutch lifter rod. May be thick on one end. Has to go back in the same way, or you will get oil leaks.

The issue with the slave cylinder is the build up of crud and such in the slave cylinder. Here's a picture of one not maintained:Clutch Slave - 3.jpg This is from years of not changing the fluid, specifically becasue it is in a hard to get to spot, and very time consuming for such a small, but essential part of the hydraulic clutch system. Once you rebuild the clutch slave cylinder, may want to flush the hose before reinstalling the clutch slave cylinder. May want to consider changing/renewing the clutch hose as it can look good on the outside, but deteriorating on the inside. The hose can also weaken and more of the pressure is being used to expand the hose and being robbed from the intended use.

Recommend a fluid change of the clutch every two years, the same time you do the brake system fluid flush.

Get an OEM manual for your bike. The brake flush routine is well detailed in it, and follow it to the "T".

Good luck. Cheers
The weep hole can be seen in this picture, just above the oil filter. The gold arrow is pointing at it.



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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Interesting placement of a "weep" hole. It is from the transmission cover, not the slave cylinder. What is unknown is what is it there for? You would have to lose a lot of clutch fluid to fill the void where this hole is - it would be a catastrophic failure of the slave cylinder piston cup, or it is there to alert you to a failed engine oil seal where the slave cylinder lift rod goes into the engine block. Not much information on the design to be found. Pic of the inside, red arrow points to hole:


When you pull the slave cylinder, should be dry in this space.

Thanks for the picture.

Cheers
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by two_wheeled »

All done.
Today I rebuilt the clutch slave with new seals and spring. There was no corrosion but lots of bad fluid. Sediment in the master reservoir as well.
After doing so, the clutch is smooth and there is no strange noise anymore. Fixed!

I also took the opportunity to flush the coolant and I replaced the air filter as well.
The front lower cowl had a crack in it so I repaired that as well and am waiting overnight for it to cure before I put all the plastics back on.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Techdude2000 »

Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:14 pm Interesting placement of a "weep" hole. It is from the transmission cover, not the slave cylinder. What is unknown is what is it there for? You would have to lose a lot of clutch fluid to fill the void where this hole is - it would be a catastrophic failure of the slave cylinder piston cup, or it is there to alert you to a failed engine oil seal where the slave cylinder lift rod goes into the engine block. Not much information on the design to be found. Pic of the inside, red arrow points to hole:1800 trans case.jpgWhen you pull the slave cylinder, should be dry in this space.

Thanks for the picture.

Cheers
Yea, the area inside this part of the transmission cover is cast in a way that it forms a downhill ramp toward the hole. Since the slave cylinder sleeve is backset almost to the engine case, any leak from its seal would drip out near the ramp and hole. The lifter rod seal doesn’t have any oil pressure behind it and I’ve never seen one leak in the 17+ years of working on these 1800 wings. I have seen two with a blown slave cylinder seal that leaked clutch fluid from the weep hole. As you said, this area should be all dry if the seals are good.
Last edited by Techdude2000 on Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Techdude2000 »

two_wheeled wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:05 pm All done.
Today I rebuilt the clutch slave with new seals and spring. There was no corrosion but lots of bad fluid. Sediment in the master reservoir as well.
After doing so, the clutch is smooth and there is no strange noise anymore. Fixed!

I also took the opportunity to flush the coolant and I replaced the air filter as well.
The front lower cowl had a crack in it so I repaired that as well and am waiting overnight for it to cure before I put all the plastics back on.
Glad you got her straightened out. :D
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:14 pm What is unknown is what is it there for?
Basically the hole is a breather hole. As the slave piston moves in and out, the air pressure in the slave cylinder's area changes.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by blupupher »

two_wheeled wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:05 pm All done.
Today I rebuilt the clutch slave with new seals and spring. There was no corrosion but lots of bad fluid. Sediment in the master reservoir as well.
After doing so, the clutch is smooth and there is no strange noise anymore. Fixed!

I also took the opportunity to flush the coolant and I replaced the air filter as well.
The front lower cowl had a crack in it so I repaired that as well and am waiting overnight for it to cure before I put all the plastics back on.
Glad you got it sorted out.

Be sure to take a close look at your clutch master as well.
The same bad fluid that caused the clutch slave to fail is the same fluid touching the same rubber seals of the master, and is actuated the same amount as the slave.

I just did the slave on my 1500 last week, and found the master to have a small leak as well (not dripping, but noted some corrosion at the piston area), so rebuilt them both.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by Techdude2000 »

GoldWingrGreg wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:48 pm
Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:14 pm What is unknown is what is it there for?
Basically the hole is a breather hole. As the slave piston moves in and out, the air pressure in the slave cylinder's area changes.
I agree that it functions to allow air flow so the cup doesn’t fight a pressure differential, but if that was its only function it wouldn’t have the angled ramp for leaking fluid to run down and out.
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Re: GL1800 clutch slave

Post by bluecruise »

The silent killer of a failing clutch slave. Went for a one hour ride to a favorite destination and when we came back from a break to ride home, the wing lunged forward with the clutch in. The hour back was a challenge with little to no clutch disengagement function. Clutch reservoir was nearly dry. Pulled the slave cylinder and it had obviously failed (pics attached). I believe the slave cylinder had been rebuilt by previous owner and the housing probably had microscopic pits or roughness that caused the seal to prematurely fail. So glad this forum had some information to share. Replaced the whole assembly (Honda OEM 22860-MCA-000) plus crush washers (90545-300-000). I talked to an experienced dealer mechanic friend and was advised to not change the engine seal if not leaking and if the clutch push rod came out, make sure it goes back in the same way it came out. Changed engine oil+filter and back on the road. Even thought the slave cylinder assembly was expensive ($160USD) compared to rebuild kit, I don't think I would rebuild a slave cylinder again--too much risk of the weep hole plugging and forcing brake fluid into the engine--which will promptly destroy the engine's bearings and valve train (at which point my 60,000 mile 2002 GL1800's value would be parts salvage). Also, good shop investment is a vacuum brake bleeder to make it easy and fast to change fluids every year or two.
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