2005 Wing - starter failure


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North Western
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:50 pm
Location: Scotland
Motorcycle: 2005 GL1800A

2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by North Western »



Well.....I appear to have joined the ranks of "press the starter and it just clicks" :(

I was doing routine maintenance (oil & filter change etc). and fired the bike up a few times
It started with the engine cranking for a few seconds before it fired up.
It did that a few times, then the last time it made a "clattering" noise and then fired up.
The next time I went to start......it just clicked.

My first assumption.....based on the "clattering" noise was that the battery was starting to fail and was not delivering enough voltage for the starter relays / solenoids, thus the "clattering noise".
Ordered a new Motobatt battery, and while waiting for delivery I used my ST1100 Pan European for a run up the coast.
The new battery was eventually delivered, put on an initial charge (apparently not necessary, but I'm an old timer with old timer habits :lol: ) anyway, later that day the battery was fitted and with great confidence I switched on, pressed the button and.....click!

My second assumption.......Starter relays A or B (I read posts on forums...I am knowledgable...sort of :lol: )
I had a bike run the next day, so off I went on the trusty ST1100 and had an enjoyable day playing in the twisty roads of the West Coast of Scotland.
I was confident in my belief about the starter solenoids (I had a a few issues with them when I rebuilt the bike after purchasing it) but managed to avoid ordering replacements until I had actually made sure they were the problem.
The next day, after doing all sorts of chores around the garden, washing the ST1100 after the play day previously, etc...I started on the Wing. Stripped off the lower panels from the top box (trunk) and the rear mud guard assembly and removed the left pannier (saddle bag).
Re-installed the battery with only the main cables attached and proceeded to test the A & B solenoids.
They worked fine.
Followed all the steps suggested by Techdude2000 and others in previous posts of the same problem and everything checked out fine.
No blown fuses, no faulty relays, correct voltage at the A & B fuses, correct voltages at the solenoid posts etc.
Everything worked......except...."click".
All the dash console lights checked out;
FI light....extinguishes..no errors.
RVS system works...press the button, relays click etc and the neutral light extinguishes and the RVS illuminates, then goes back to normal when the RVS button is released.
All indication is that everything is fine and ready to go......but..."click".
My last check was to put a jump start cable between the battery positive terminal and the "B" solenoid large nut that connects the wire to the starter. This connects the power direct, bypassing all the various systems.
It should operate....nope...I hear a click but the starter does not opeartate.

Conclusion.....starter motor is dead.
Next step is stripping the bike to remove the motor and test it on the bench.

Reading the official manual, it appears that I have to dismantle / remove the "Reverse shift arm" before unbolting the starter motor.
No problem, I can do that, but can anyone tell me why?
The bike will be dead with no electrical power etc. so I can't see what removing this does.....anybody with words of wisdom?

EDIT>>>>> Okay, bike is stripped and the tank is out, Looking at the starter motor I have answered my own question, the reverse shift arm needs to be removed to give access. :oops:

If anybody can point anything I've missed, please let me know.
I've now got to do one final check, turn the engine manually to ensure it isn't locked up (its a step in the official manual) so if anyone knows how to turn the engine without putting it in gear and rotating the rear wheel, let me know.

I'd just filled the tank from a jerrycan, so time to start siphoning fuel out of the tank, if I can remember how to do it.

Hours of fun ahead of me ....such is life.

Ride safe folks and take care
Regards
Don


North Western
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:50 pm
Location: Scotland
Motorcycle: 2005 GL1800A

Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by North Western »

Update; .........It's sorted :D
Embarrassing admission; ......last night my wife suggested tapping it with a hammer. That's a good idea I said, I'll try that in the morning.
This morning....I did a few checks, pulled the spark plugs and proved the engine could rotate. Completely forgot about "tapping it with a hammer.
Spent the day stripping the bike and pulling the fuel tank.
Once I could see the starter motor, I stopped for a hot drink & a late lunch (and edited my original post).
During the lunch, I said I was going to connect a cable directly to the starter motor connection.
"Did you try tapping it says my wife". .........Duhhh....err no, I'll try it now says I.
Back to the bike, remove the starter cable, connect a jump lead from a battery, nothing...still dead.
Disconnect the jump lead, take a hammer and gently'ish tap the motor along its length.
Reconnect the jump lead, touch the battery terminal...whats this?...sparks and a whirring noise!

Absolutely delighted it is fixed :D
Extremely embarrassed that I didn't remember my wife suggestion :oops:

To make matters worse...we're going to a party tonight, and I know the story she will be telling everybody there :)

So...hitting it with a BFH (Big Friendly Hammer :D ) fixed it. Not really..gentle tapping was what I actually did.

We all make mistakes, me probably more than most, however the problem is fixed, the family friends are going to have good laugh, and if I'm lucky my riding cronies will never hear of it. :lol:

Ride safe folks, and take care
Regards
Don
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MikeB
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Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by MikeB »

I am really so sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is not fixed. It will happen again.

Tapping with a hard object is a temporary fix at best. The vibration will jog the brushes on the rotor enough for it to allow sufficient current flow. There is no doubt an issue with the rotor commutator and brush contact points. Your problem will come back and most likely at the worst possible time. You really should replace that starter.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
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North Western
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Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by North Western »

Good point.
I was thinking along those lines as well, so I think I'll order a replacement and fit it while the bike is torn down this far.

Thanks for the input, you basically made my mind up for me.

Regards
Don
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MikeB
Posts: 4120
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: Current
1998 - GL1500 Aspencade
205K Miles
2017 - GL1800 Audio Comfort
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Previous
SOLD 1999 - GL1500, 161K Miles
SOLD 2003 - GL1800 ABS w/117K - Sold
SOLD 2003 - GL1800 w/67K Miles
SOLD 2001 - ST1100 w/33K Miles
Contact:

Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by MikeB »

Yes, good time to do it as long as it is all apart now. If you replace it, make sure you buy an OEM starter, not a cheaper version made by an aftermarket seller. I have read some real horror stories about aftermarket starters eating your engine.

Also, there is a slim possibility that the original starter can be taken apart and repaired buy a reputable starter shop. It's worth a try. The old starter will just be a paper weight after it is removed unless it can be refurbished.
MikeB
1998 - GL1500 w/205,500 miles ~ 2017 - GL1800 w/46,000 miles
USAF Avionics Communications Tech - 1968 - 1986 / Flight Engineer C-130E - C-141B - 1986 - 1992. Retired
Industrial Maintenance Tech - 1992 - 2014
Retired in Tacoma, WA
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Rambozo
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Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by Rambozo »

Sure sounds like a worn out brush problem. Replacement brushes are a small fraction of what a new starter costs. Honda has all the bits and bobs for that starter.
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Asphaltmaniac
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Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by Asphaltmaniac »

After 17 years it has, IMHO, given its all. My vote is for brand new OEM. Especially if you intend to keep the bike for many more years. :D
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dummysales
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Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by dummysales »

I can tell you how to turn the motor over. Look in your manual for setting the tappet gaps. You’ll find it requires removing (using a 17 mm wrench) the plug covering a 12 mm hex shaft to put the engine at #1 tdc.
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sr71cbx
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2004 GL1800 Gold Wing

Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by sr71cbx »

If you have it busted down this far and starter out on the bench, then, by all means, do spend the $$$ for a new Honda starter. Watch it when stabbing it, real easy to break the idler gear in the back case which makes for a very ugly scenario to repair(engine removal which is a PITA). As one poster suggested, turn the engine over by hand from the front to allow the starter to drop into place, bolt it up and go!
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Pam
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Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by Pam »

Had that same issue with my 74 Charge. Turned it off one day all was good. Next day not Evan a click. Out with the test light and volt meter and all was good right up to the starter. No tapping just went for a new starter. My experience with the tapping fix is that it is a get you home fix.
North Western
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:50 pm
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Motorcycle: 2005 GL1800A

Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by North Western »

Well....progress.
After removing the old starter I tried it on the bench.
It worked, but, as an engineer friend who was helping me commented..."it sounded very bearingy" meaning he reckoned the bearings were shot.
I did pull it apart, the brushes were shot, it smelt of overheating electrics, and I ended up with a small pile of carbon dust on the bench.

The new starter arrived yesterday, and today I tested it on the bench before installation (just in case :) ).
(I also "tested" the old motor out of interest, it didn't work and I didn't bother tapping it).

I inserted the new motor into position and then gently rotated it back & forth until it slipped into the full depth.
Eased it back into alignment with the mounting bolts and bolted it up.

Fitted a jump lead from a battery negative to the engine block, and then a jump lead from the battery positive to the terminal. It worked.
Connected the starter lead from Solenoid "B", and then repeated the test by connecting the battery positive to solenoid "B" post attached to the starter cable. That worked as well.

Re-installed the "Reverse shift arm" (that was a fiddly job, thankfully I had the official manual which got me there in the end.
Rear master cylinder went back on with less hassle than I expected, followed by the gas tank.

Thats where I'm at for the moment, Heading up to the city to see a concert tomorrow and won't get back till late Sunday, so it will be Monday before I can continue with refilling the pedal brake line hydraulics & start putting the bodywork back on.

Thanks for all the helpful input.

Ride safe, and take care folks

Regards
Don
North Western
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:50 pm
Location: Scotland
Motorcycle: 2005 GL1800A

Re: 2005 Wing - starter failure

Post by North Western »

Final update:

Life intervenes....I didn't get back to the bike until Tuesday :(

Anyway....I fitted a Healtech gear indicator (see separate post) and replaced the top cover, dash panel etc.

On Wednesday my Brother in Law came along to assist and we re-filled the hydraulic system and bled it.
Nice solid pedal.

Refitted both panniers and the top box trim, front mudguard etc. this afternoon.

Gave the bike a good wash, then had to dry it off inside the garage as the rain started.

Take care and ride safe folks.

Regards
Don


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