Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?


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Serk
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Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »



Howdy, got a perplexing issue...
Short version - 2008 GL1800 60k miles. I bought it less than a year ago, initially all was great. Took a short ride while on a long trip and it started making LOUD embarrassing noises. The noises would change as I shifted gears, sometimes louder, sometimes it'd go Goldwing quiet. Also, when first engaging the clutch handle it pulsates rather quickly, a vibration but more of an in and out pulsing.
The sound seems to decrease, but not 100% go away as the bike warms up, but the clutch handle pulsation doesn't change.
Thus far I've noticed no performance issues, other than the pulsing of the clutch lever, if it weren't for the noises I'd never have noticed something was amiss.
I recently came across the ADG issues on the GL1800s and that made me listen and the sound does seem to come from around the alternatorish area. I've listened to other ADG issues and those are more "clunky" than I'm hearing, mine is more of a smooth whine/whirr.... I know 6 cylinder Hondas can be noisy, been riding a Valkyrie 22 years, but this is REALLY loud (sometimes), came on suddenly too after a few thousand totally normal miles.
I'll try to get a stethoscope and listen closer to the alternator, but before I get there figured I'd check the amassed wisdom and experience here. I took a video of what's going on, as usual the sounds aren't 100% accurate, it sounds louder in person.
Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? I've searched until the search results are starting to get blurred to me so figured it was time for a sanity check...
(And yeah, that's the short version, the long version involves this starting 1500 miles into a 5000 mile trip with one of my 11 year olds, having the bike shipped from Billings Montana to Dallas Texas, a local shop having the bike for a month and finally throwing their hands up in defeat, etc..... Not been fun. The irony being I bought the 'Wing 'cause I was getting worried my 1998 Valkyrie was getting too old to reliably take cross country anymore.... Heh.)
Oh, and if it IS ADG, any suggestions for a mechanic in the Dallas area that's trustworthy and willing to do the fix? Alternator replacement I'm fairly confident I could handle myself if that's somehow what it turns out to be, ADG is way beyond this computer geek's wrenching level....

Apologies for my first post being a "Help me!", should hopped over here and done a "Howdy!" when I first got it.....



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Wingsconsin
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Wingsconsin »

It does not sound like the ADG to me from what I know about that problem -

I DO wonder about regular maintenance of the Clutch Fluids - Are the hydraulics of the clutch system working well enough ?

Further - the type of oils used and when was it last changed (the clutch plates live oil in a wet clutch system) - Could this be a problem ?

I know that isn't much help towards resolving the issue - but it's a start maybe ?
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Serk
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

Appreciate it.... Few other observations:

Previous oil before this started was Mobil 1 15W50 (No friction modifiers).
The shop I took it to and had it for a month did an oil change, replaced the clutch basket and clutch plates, bled the clutch hydraulics, and other things, still trying to get a full list of everything they tried before they gave up...

(In their defense, once they replaced all the transmission and the problem persisted, they put my original parts back and didn't charge me for the parts, just the labor that I'd already agreed to.....)

Thanks, and thanks for any other insight! This one's really baffling me, and everyone else that's taken a look at it so far... Ugh... So frustrating, I just wanna ride!

Edit to add - as far as operation, other than the pulsing/vibration the first 1/2 inch or so of pulling in the clutch lever, the system operates perfectly normally. If it weren't for the noise I'd likely have never noticed anything wrong. I only noticed the clutch level vibration when a Honda mechanic took a quick look at the bike in Montana (But said they were so backed up they couldn't even take the bike for at least 2 months, so.....)

Ride wise it rides perfectly fine, no problems I've noticed so far. Just worried what IS going on and don't wanna be left on the side of the road with a steaming pile of junked bike (Especially since I like to travel cross country with one of my 11 year old kids on the back quite frequently)
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Wingsconsin »

Does it make this noise while under load (ie: when you are actually riding) ??
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Serk
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

Wingsconsin wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:23 pm Does it make this noise while under load (ie: when you are actually riding) ??
Yes, although it seems louder when it's coasting.

I took a quick ride and some observations:
While parked, from neutral with clutch in no sound. Release clutch, sound being. Pull in clutch, sound continues. Put bike in gear sound stops (While at a stop).
Pull clutch in no sound. Shift to neutral, no sound. Release clutch in neutral, sound begins. Pull clutch in and repeats...
Also, while moving I hear a whirring whining sound more than I'd expect (Been riding Valkyries for 22 years, so used to the whine of square cut gears and all) and the sound matches the speed of the transmission, not the engine or bike (I.E. Can be going along in 4th gear, if I shift to 5th and keep clutch pulled in sound does up in pitch, or if I downshift it goes down in pitch, if that makes sense.)
Really, if it weren't for the clutch level vibrating/pulsing I'd almost be willing to write this off as "Just one of those sounds a motorcycle makes" but something's just infuriatingly not right.....
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Wingsconsin »

Perhaps it is a bent shift fork ?
I am not certain this has been an issue for the 1800's -
Goldwinger Greg (Just Wings) would be the one to give you direction on that ..
https://justwings.com/
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Serk
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

For those following along, finally got an update from the shop as to what they'd done trying to correct the issue...:



The lifter plate bearing was looked at but not replaced. It didn't feel like it needed to be replaced, no notches or hard spots in it.

Basket was replaced, did no good
Clutch plates and metals were inspected, no wear or blueing
Clutch rod was inspected, no wear on either end
Clutch master was disassembled and inspected
Clutch slave was disassembled and inspected
Clutch system was drained and re-bleed
Oil was drained and replaced
The Original Eggman
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by The Original Eggman »

It is not the ADG. They redesigned that part starting in 2006. Have you looked at the Propeller Shaft? That spins up as you go faster and can change sound with each shift of the gears.
Serk
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

The Original Eggman wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:32 pm It is not the ADG. They redesigned that part starting in 2006. Have you looked at the Propeller Shaft? That spins up as you go faster and can change sound with each shift of the gears.
Appreciate the input! Would that make noise when the clutch is pulled in and in neutral?

I've been riding it a lot lately trying to see what's up, the noise, when it's happening, seems to only happen when the clutch is pulled in, but it happens in neutral and each gear.

The pitch matches the speed of the transmission, not the engine, I.E. Clutch in in 5th gear, shift to 4th BUT DO NOT RELEASE THE CLUTCH and the pitch changes.....

Very frustrating!
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Serk wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:12 pm
I've been riding it a lot lately trying to see what's up, the noise, when it's happening, seems to only happen when the clutch is pulled in, but it happens in neutral and each gear.

The pitch matches the speed of the transmission, not the engine, I.E. Clutch in in 5th gear, shift to 4th BUT DO NOT RELEASE THE CLUTCH and the pitch changes.....

Very frustrating!
The pitch change, when in 5th and shifting into 4th with the clutch in ... is the rear tire spinning ??? If so, what happens when on a center stand, doing the same, and clutch in, but with the rear brake applied (rear wheel not spinning) ... is the pitch change similar ???
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

GoldWingrGreg wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:10 pm
Serk wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:12 pm
I've been riding it a lot lately trying to see what's up, the noise, when it's happening, seems to only happen when the clutch is pulled in, but it happens in neutral and each gear.

The pitch matches the speed of the transmission, not the engine, I.E. Clutch in in 5th gear, shift to 4th BUT DO NOT RELEASE THE CLUTCH and the pitch changes.....

Very frustrating!
The pitch change, when in 5th and shifting into 4th with the clutch in ... is the rear tire spinning ??? If so, what happens when on a center stand, doing the same, and clutch in, but with the rear brake applied (rear wheel not spinning) ... is the pitch change similar ???

I'm wondering if maybe I'm dealing with separate issues, one of which drive shaft related?

Did a check on the center stand...

Bike running, foot on rear brake, in neutral clutch lever out (Released, not pulled in) bike sounds normal, pull clutch in makes whirring noise rather loud.

Put in gear, clutch in, take to 5th, front brake on rear brake off let clutch out, get the noise.... Clutch in, foot OFF rear brake, downshift, pitch changes, BUT stomp on the rear brake and the noise stops...

Would the pitch change with the clutch in if it's driveshaft related? Wouldn't the clutch need to be released for any change in pitch need to be reflected in the drive shaft?

(Full disclaimer - I'm a computer geek, I only turn wrenches when necessary, not my speciality, I hope I'm making sense...)

Thanks again!
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Serk wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:57 pm
GoldWingrGreg wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:10 pm
Serk wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:12 pm
I've been riding it a lot lately trying to see what's up, the noise, when it's happening, seems to only happen when the clutch is pulled in, but it happens in neutral and each gear.

The pitch matches the speed of the transmission, not the engine, I.E. Clutch in in 5th gear, shift to 4th BUT DO NOT RELEASE THE CLUTCH and the pitch changes.....

Very frustrating!
The pitch change, when in 5th and shifting into 4th with the clutch in ... is the rear tire spinning ??? If so, what happens when on a center stand, doing the same, and clutch in, but with the rear brake applied (rear wheel not spinning) ... is the pitch change similar ???

I'm wondering if maybe I'm dealing with separate issues, one of which drive shaft related?

Did a check on the center stand...

Bike running, foot on rear brake, in neutral clutch lever out (Released, not pulled in) bike sounds normal, pull clutch in makes whirring noise rather loud.

Put in gear, clutch in, take to 5th, front brake on rear brake off let clutch out, get the noise.... Clutch in, foot OFF rear brake, downshift, pitch changes, BUT stomp on the rear brake and the noise stops...

Would the pitch change with the clutch in if it's driveshaft related? Wouldn't the clutch need to be released for any change in pitch need to be reflected in the drive shaft?

(Full disclaimer - I'm a computer geek, I only turn wrenches when necessary, not my speciality, I hope I'm making sense...)

Thanks again!
Sorry ... I'm trying to help, but somehow I'm always getting confused with your answers. The above are yes/no questions.

Regaurding the pitch change, when in 5th and shifting into 4th with the clutch in ... is the rear tire spinning ??? yes/no

If so, what happens when on a center stand, doing the same, and clutch in, but with the rear brake applied (rear wheel not spinning) ... is the pitch change similar ??? yes/no
Serk
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

GoldWingrGreg wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:15 pm Regaurding the pitch change, when in 5th and shifting into 4th with the clutch in ... is the rear tire spinning ??? yes/no

If so, what happens when on a center stand, doing the same, and clutch in, but with the rear brake applied (rear wheel not spinning) ... is the pitch change similar ??? yes/no
Apologies, I tend to get too wordy sometimes.

Regaurding the pitch change, when in 5th and shifting into 4th with the clutch in ... is the rear tire spinning ???

Yes

If so, what happens when on a center stand, doing the same, and clutch in, but with the rear brake applied (rear wheel not spinning) ... is the pitch change similar ???

In this situation no whining noise, bike sounds perfectly normal.


So the whining noise seems to happen if the rear tire is spinning, OR if the bike is in neutral, tire NOT spinning, clutch lever engaged...

(Which is why I was wondering if I might be dealing with two distinct issues, since that makes no sense whatsoever to me.)
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

Just an update that isn't much of an update - I've been riding as much as I can lately (I mean, don't we all always do that? ;) ) and am resolved to just deal with it until/unless it finally leaves me on the side of the road, at least then I'll have an idea what the problem is!
The sound does seem to be louder when the bike is cold, after it's warmed up the sound remains, but not nearly as loud.
If I ever do find out what the problem is (Or if anyone has any other ideas) I'll be sure to circle back and update this with what it was....
I do appreciate all the help, ideas, etc... Just so freaking frustrating!
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by The Original Eggman »

I'd bet money that your driveshaft needs replacing. I had to take a trip around the country last week and I had many of the symptoms you have described above. I pulled my driveshaft earlier today and the U-joint was bad. Unfortunately the u-joint is not repairable and you have to buy the entire driveshaft.
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

The Original Eggman wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:26 pm I'd bet money that your driveshaft needs replacing. I had to take a trip around the country last week and I had many of the symptoms you have described above. I pulled my driveshaft earlier today and the U-joint was bad. Unfortunately the u-joint is not repairable and you have to buy the entire driveshaft.
I considered that, but if I get the noise and clutch handle vibration even in neutral, that'd remove the driveshaft from the equation, wouldn't it?

Not arguing, this one's got so many folks baffled nothing would surprise me, just can't see how the driveshaft would be the issue if it's happening even in neutral and/or with the clutch pulled in...

Thanks for the insight! (Seriously!!!)
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by The Original Eggman »

Is the bike moving or at a dead stop?
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

The Original Eggman wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:51 pm Is the bike moving or at a dead stop?
The noise happens at a stop or while riding. The pitch of the noise tracks the transmission speed; I.E. goes up or down with engine speed but also adjusts as gears are changed, and makes the sound while the clutch is pulled it, stops making the noise once the clutch is released.
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Rambozo »

Let me get this straight. You can be sitting at a stop, pull the clutch and it starts making noise? Then still while stopped, you go through the gears and the pitch changes with each gear?
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Serk »

Rambozo wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:45 am Let me get this straight. You can be sitting at a stop, pull the clutch and it starts making noise? Then still while stopped, you go through the gears and the pitch changes with each gear?
That is correct.

While sitting still, while riding it does the same, clutch out everything sounds normal (Far as I can hear) clutch pulled in the sounds happen.

Also, the sounds seem to be louder/more pronounced when the bike is cold.
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Re: Howdy! Do I have the dreaded ADG, failing alternator, or other?

Post by Rambozo »

Ok I'm thinking you probably have more than one noise problem. Because with the bike stopped and the clutch pulled, nothing in the transmission is spinning, so there is no way to have it be different in different gears.


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