GL1800 Flat rate manual/schedule

[WINGDOC]

I am hoping someone has access to a GL1800 FRM. I am an independent tech and recently did the throttle cable A and B replacement on a trike conversion unit. The cables had been misrouted some time ago and eventually succumbed to being smashed between the upper fork brace and the frame. Along with some other work tied into the job I had over 14 hours into it. Some accessory components and wiring made for some complications. The local dealer said Honda FRM states 3.6 hours for throttle cable replacement. The FSM says that the LH radiator, tank and airbox must be removed to facilitate this job. It took me 4.7 hours to get the throttle cables completely off the bike. Not installed, just OFF THE UNIT. And the FSM is correct about the radiator, tank and airbox.
My questions are:
#1 Is there a separate rate for EACH different cable or addon time for each added cable?
#2 What is the rate for replacing the cruise throttle cutout switch? This is basically the same operation as replacing throttle cable B
#3 What is the rate for replacing the airbox?

[Rambozo]

Trike conversions make the book times invalid. Same with things like the cables being misrouted. The hours might go way up to correct previous problems. For example, on some bikes you can attach the new cables to the old cables to fish them through some areas. You obviously can't do that if the cables being removed are routed wrong. I haven't seen the flat rate manual for Honda, but based on other makes there are always plenty of footnotes for things that are no longer stock. You can find flate-rate books to buy online, but you can also often get an out of date version from a friendly dealer when they get new ones.

[tamathumper]

I don't do any flat rate work for the reasons you experienced. I give estimates, not quotes, and then it takes what it takes within reason. If I am "learning on the job" I will discount that time up to 100%, but when I encounter owner modifications, rodent damage, rusted or seized fasteners, or misrouted / miswired "projects" then it just takes what it takes.

The flat rate manuals, while useful to a degree, are a big part of why there is no quality service available at dealerships anymore. The tech usually gets hosed if conditions are less than the imagined "ideal", and the focus is on time to complete, not quality.

[GoldWingrGreg]

As the others are saying, anything aftermarket can easily cause add'l labor. Common examples are having to deal with, or redue, under pocket wiring, an easy steer kit, back rest, air wings, a cup holder on the handle bars, and risors. On many, the cable bracket to the at the upper right chinch bolt is missing. If it has easy steer, often a spacer is needed with a longer bolt. On most, the special cable nylon tie is not holding the cables correctly on the left side of the steering head. Of the examples I just gave, an easy 1-2 hours of add'l labor is needed.

[WINGDOC]

I appreciate the responses.
In order to bring this customer back on some other easier bikes and ATV units they own I bled my own throat a little on this job.
Best I can tell whomever installed the Champion Trike kit is who let this mess remain. I found original brake line piping from the LBS on the unit; The replacement steel braided brake line for the rear calipers was attached to the swing arm with zip ties; The front brakes (near the calipers) make a chirping sound when activated quickly; Most of the accessory wiring was of the type "hurry and get it on so everyone is impressed with the external looks". Customer states price was $15K on unit ('03) which had 56K miles when purchased. A bit high in my opinion. I don't like trikes anyway.

[GoldWingrGreg]

I appreciate the responses.
In order to bring this customer back on some other easier bikes and ATV units they own I bled my own throat a little on this job.
Best I can tell whomever installed the Champion Trike kit is who let this mess remain. I found original brake line piping from the LBS on the unit; The replacement steel braided brake line for the rear calipers was attached to the swing arm with zip ties; The front brakes (near the calipers) make a chirping sound when activated quickly; Most of the accessory wiring was of the type "hurry and get it on so everyone is impressed with the external looks". Customer states price was $15K on unit ('03) which had 56K miles when purchased. A bit high in my opinion. I don't like trikes anyway.

After years of working on such stuff, here we're still learning that however much we charge, it should have been more. Anytime aftermarket stuff is added, in almost all cases, it interferes. A good example is a simple cup mounted the the handlebars. If the shelter needs to come off, it interfers, and often in many different ways.

As for how cheeasy some kits are installed. I beleive all trike kits rely on nylon ties to keep brake lines in place, and rarely, or never, will you find unused brake hoses removed. Many trike shops pay their installers a flat fee to install a kit ... do one in a day, and make a killing ... take 4 days, and hopefully you can still make your house payment. In almost all cases, and when inspecting their work, it's easy to see that an installer did the install, and not a higher paid tech. I'm sure you're aware that in the repair industry, installers are about the same level as tire/oil change tech ... far lower skill level, or different skill sets then a mechanic.

Regaurding rear brake noise, that is common on a Champion. Usually they'll moan with the engine off and pushing them backwards. When the old company was still around, I'd order my brake pads from them. Getting ones nowadays, with the correct backing plates to fit with the anti-rattle hardware, is nearly imposible. For the most part, other then working on the GW half of a Champion/Leman trike, we turn them away ... it becomes to frustrating to do a good job and scavaged parts.

[joeincalif]

There are 2 Honda dealers in my area. 1 charges $300 just to start on it and then $125 an hour labor. The other charges $120 an hour, just went up from $99 an hour. Of course, I use the second dealer. I had an electrical issue on my VTX 1800 and one on my 06 wing, of course at different times. They charged me only 1 hour labor to find & fix each issue. Being electrical they could of charged me a lot more and I never would have known how long they actually took to solve the issue. I recommend this Honda Dealer to anyone who asks. Madera Power Sports. Madera Calif